Pa transport.

[woodentoe 14]

Headed to the Poconos this weekend and I've decided to bring the plinker.

 

Can someone link me the official regs for non licensee transport?

 

I've only been able to find forum posts.

 

Thanks! I want to be in compliance.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Follow FOPA guidelines and you will be okay.

[echo five foxtrot 1]

This might help;

The PA Code; http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/204/chapter303/s303.15.html

 

I think this is the statute:

http://www.acslpa.org/html/pennsylvania_uniform_firearms_.HTM

Title 18

 

§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

 

(a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

 

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.

(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).

(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

(16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).

[woodentoe 14]

Called pa state police. Was told it is against federal law to bring a firearm across state lines without a permit. WTF?

[Vlad G 345]

They said what? I'd expect PA to have more of a clue

[YWHIC 18]

Lock firearm in vehicle trunk unloaded with the ammo in separate container.. make little or no stops.. do not leave unattended..

 

Not the official answer but thats what I do..

 

I can't believe the PA SP would say that.. they must get the question a billion times a day.. maybe you got a cranky guy.. Maybe he thought you meant CARRY the pistol on your person.. that you need a pemit to carry..

 

How did you bring the firearm home from the store?? same way as 1st line of this post..

[johnp 45]

Not really what you asked but FWIW if you have your Florida or Utah ccw permits, as soon as you cross the border you can ccw/oc in your vehicle.

[woodentoe 14]

Not really what you asked but FWIW if you have your Florida or Utah ccw permits, as soon as you cross the border you can ccw/oc in your vehicle.

 

I dont so I can't.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Keep in mind that in PA, loaded magazines in the same compartment as the firearm designed to accept them constitutes a loaded firearm. Also, loaded firearm in a vehilce = CCW, there is no OC in a vehicle in PA.

 

So long as you aren't in Philadelphia County you can OC without a permit in PA.

[mipafox 438]

Keep in mind that in PA, loaded magazines in the same compartment as the firearm designed to accept them constitutes a loaded firearm.

 

In before the "keep ammo separate" crowd.

 

What you said is correct. But, to illustrate, if you have a gun in a gun bag and loaded mags in an outside pocket that is just fine because they are "separate compartments thereof." Applies only to loaded detachable mags. You can tape ammo to your handguns and rifles before you put them into bags sprinkled with ammo and you are just fine.

 

 

Also, loaded firearm in a vehicle = CCW,

 

Not true in any way, citation of law requested, please?

 

there is no OC in a vehicle in PA.

 

Also not true, I do it almost every day.

 

[TanJovi 5]

Are you going fishing? If so just get a $15 LTCF (Sportsmens) with your PA fishing license. It makes things much easier, good for 5 years.

[Qel Hoth 33]

In before the "keep ammo separate" crowd.

 

What you said is correct. But, to illustrate, if you have a gun in a gun bag and loaded mags in an outside pocket that is just fine because they are "separate compartments thereof." Applies only to loaded detachable mags. You can tape ammo to your handguns and rifles before you put them into bags sprinkled with ammo and you are just fine.

 

 

Yes, hence the "same compartment" qualifier in my post.

 

 

 

Not true in any way, citation of law requested, please?

 

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

 

 

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

 

 

When in a vehicle it does not specify if the firearm is concealed or open.

 

 

 

Also not true, I do it almost every day.

 

See above. Carrying is legal in a vehicle IF you have a LTCF or accepted out of state permit. Otherwise it is not.

[mipafox 438]

 

Yes, hence the "same compartment" qualifier in my post.

 

That part of my response wasn't meant for you. People in NJ might misconstrue it, I was clarifying for the benefit of others. I said I agreed.

 

When in a vehicle it does not specify if the firearm is concealed or open.

 

I asked you to provide a citation of law when you said this:

 

"Also, loaded firearm in a vehicle = CCW"

 

The law you just cited has nothing to do with what I asked you about, what you said. It has nothing to do with a loaded firearm, and it has nothing to do with CCW. Which of those seven words you said does your citation of law support?

 

See above. Carrying is legal in a vehicle IF you have a LTCF or accepted out of state permit. Otherwise it is not.

 

That's good to know, thanks. I got scared when you said, "there is no OC in a vehicle in PA."

[Qel Hoth 33]

I asked you to provide a citation of law when you said this:

 

"Also, loaded firearm in a vehicle = CCW"

 

The law you just cited has nothing to do with what I asked you about, what you said. It has nothing to do with a loaded firearm, and it has nothing to do with CCW. Which of those seven words you said does your citation of law support?

 

I should clarify.

 

You need a LTCF or accepted permit to carry a firearm in a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded AND securely wrapped. However, if you are going to/from target practice in which case the firearm must be unloaded.

 

"loaded firearm in vehicle = CCW" was supposed to imply that you cannot claim you are open carrying (which is legal without a license), in a vehicle.

[db1775 4]

Don't any of these state agencies believe in interperative statements for dummies like me? I live in NJ and shoot in PA, so I guess I break the law regularly.

 

I guess this means I'm ok, but does an FPID count as a license for this purpose?

 

(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

 

(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

[mrjam2jab 9]

 

You need a LTCF or accepted permit to carry a firearm in a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded AND securely wrapped.

 

Or a permit issued by ANY state. See (11) in the statute posted in Post #3.

[mipafox 438]

Got it, thanks. The reason I originally brought up the distinction is because there are states where carry in a car = concealed carry. That is not the case in PA.

 

You need a LTCF or accepted permit to carry a firearm in a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded AND securely wrapped. However, if you are going to/from target practice in which case the firearm must be unloaded.

 

Also, again for the benefit of others, firearm in the context you mentioned applies to handguns, SBRs, SBSs, certain AOWs, and machineguns with short barrels or short overall length. Not long guns.

 

It may sound complicated, but here is the simple (alebeit only 99% accurate) version:

 

If you have a handgun, and you don't have a carry license from any state, pretend you are in NJ while you are in PA.

 

If you have a long gun, ouside of Philly, you may take it anywhere, and carry it loaded anywhere allowed by law, but you cannot have it loaded in a car, even with a license. Fortunately, that's a small violation. But if you want to carry loaded long guns in cars just get a tax stamp and keep the barrel under 16" for rifles or 18" for shotguns, and have a carry license. Then they are considered the same as handguns under that part of the law. Even machineguns and silencers are just fine.

[mipafox 438]

Don't any of these state agencies believe in interperative statements for dummies like me? I live in NJ and shoot in PA, so I guess I break the law regularly.

 

No. An FID does not count for transportation of handguns other than to and from ranges/shooting/rally areas/etc. in PA. Must be a carry license.

 

Again, keep in mind, "firearm" in THIS section of the law refers to handguns and some NFA items. You can take long guns anywhere you want in PA with no license whatsover.

 

Do yourself a favor and get a damn Az or Fl license already.

[Qel Hoth 33]

 

 

If you have a long gun, ouside of Philly, you may take it anywhere, and carry it loaded anywhere allowed by law, but you cannot have it loaded in a car, even with a license. Fortunately, that's a small violation. But if you want to carry loaded long guns in cars just get a tax stamp and keep the barrel under 16" for rifles or 18" for shotguns, and have a carry license. Then they are considered the same as handguns under that part of the law. Even machineguns and silencers are just fine.

 

I was about to post this also, but then I saw this, and wasn't sure anymore.

 

(e) Definitions.--

(1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and (8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.

 

 

With (b) being the exception paragraph.

[mipafox 438]

 

 

I was about to post this also, but then I saw this, and wasn't sure anymore.

 

 

 

With (b) being the exception paragraph.

 

Different definition of "firearm."

 

Like I said, the restrictive section with licensure exceptions only applies to handguns or other short guns. Check the definition at the top of that section.

 

Long arms are almost unregulated in PA. Except that they should not be loaded in a vehicle, or have a loaded magazine in the same exact compartment of a gun bag as the the long arm.

[db1775 4]

THANK YOU! Long guns virtually unregulated . . . I love PA. I only own long guns, so I'm good after all.

 

Do yourself a favor and get a damn Az or Fl license already.

 

 

I'd like to do myself a favor and get a damn AZ or FL address instead. But about an out-of-state license, how does that work? I don't have a carry permit here in NJ. If I get one of those licenses, it allows me to carry in certain other states?

[mrjam2jab 9]

THANK YOU! Long guns virtually unregulated . . . I love PA. I only own long guns, so I'm good after all.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to do myself a favor and get a damn AZ or FL address instead. But about an out-of-state license, how does that work? I don't have a carry permit here in NJ. If I get one of those licenses, it allows me to carry in certain other states?

 

Will allow you to carry in these blue states http://handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

[woodentoe 14]

Ok. I'm in pa with my gun. Here is a recap. I call the PASP post in Swiftwater. I was put on hold for 13 minutes. Then they came on and told me that unless I have a carry license from another state, I am violating federal law by bringing a "weapon" across state lines.

 

I ask about fopa and I get no response. I explain that it doesn't sound right to me but thank them for their time.

 

Then I post on here about it. 5 minutes later, my phone rings and it is the state police in pa. Now they tell me I can transport unloaded in a case with ammo separate to the rental property and to the range.

 

I say great. Can I get your name? Then she puts me in hold.

 

A trooper gets on the line and explains that the person I spoke to was a dispatcher and she didn't know the law. She just made an assumption based on her common sense of what it should be. WTF!?

 

Trooper explained transport, open carry anywhere but Philly without an LCF.

 

In a car, gun must be unloaded as a loaded firearm in a vehicle is considered concealed and requires LCF or other state permit to carry.

 

She even gave me her name in case I ran into trouble.

 

 

PHEW!

[mipafox 438]

 

 

I was about to post this also, but then I saw this, and wasn't sure anymore.

 

 

 

With (b) being the exception paragraph.

 

Qel Hoth,

 

For that part of the law, "firearm" refers to handguns etc., not long guns. This morning I looked up the definition for you to help:

 

18 Pa.C.S. § 6102: Definitions

 

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

 

It's handguns or NFA items.

[mipafox 438]

Ok. I'm in pa with my gun. Here is a recap. I call the PASP post in Swiftwater.

 

Stop calling Swiftwater. They are the most unprofessional cops outside of Philly in the entire Commonwealth. Don't listen to anything they say, and whatever you do, avoid them at all costs.

 

I was put on hold for 13 minutes. Then they came on and told me that unless I have a carry license from another state, I am violating federal law by bringing a "weapon" across state lines.

 

Obviously not true.

 

I ask about fopa and I get no response.

 

Stop with the FOPA. FOPA does NOT protect you against the laws of your state of origin or your state of destination, only the intervening states. Since you went from NJ to PA it provides no protection in either state. However, you need no protection from FOPA in this case anyway.

 

Then I post on here about it. 5 minutes later, my phone rings and it is the state police in pa. Now they tell me I can transport unloaded in a case with ammo separate to the rental property and to the range.

 

Since you are talknig about long guns, you can park across the street from their baracks, load you rifles and shotguns, walk across the street into their loby with your loaded guns*.

 

Again, they are full of shit. There is no "ammo separate" law. There is no "to and from the range." You are only required to have your long guns unloaded while in a car, that is the ONLY requirement.

 

In a car, gun must be unloaded as a loaded firearm in a vehicle is considered concealed

 

A loaded firearm in a car is NOT considered a concealed firearm under PA state law. He is wrong.

 

and requires LCF or other state permit to carry.

 

You cannot have a loaded long gun in a car even if you have a LTCF nor another state permit to carry.

 

 

*Provided it is not a detention facility, K-12 school, or courtroom.

[mrjam2jab 9]

 

A loaded firearm in a car is NOT considered a concealed firearm under PA state law. He is wrong.

 

 

Firearm being a pistol....he is correct. There is no OC or CC when the pistol is in the car. If it's loaded and in a vehicle it requires a permit. "A LTCF shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle."

 

 

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses

 

(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

[woodentoe 14]

I'm talking handgun, btw