Mail Order BB Gun?

[Handyman 5,682]

Anyone know if it is kosher to order a BB gun off the internet? I'm hoping to get one for the kids to learn some basics shooting in the backyard before they move up to a .22.

[PK90 3,573]

It is not legal to acquire one while in NJ without doing a COE with the seller.

[Dan 177]

Technically illegal and legal at the same time. Federal law says airguns cannot be defined as firearms. NJ law says otherwise. Technically after a costly lawsuit, you should be able to go free citing the federal law.

 

You could buy one in PA using your FID card + COE, and bring it back home to NJ , provided it is a long gun rifle. Handgun airguns would be considered actual firearm handguns in NJ, so they won't want you buying one out of state and bringing it home. Would need to go through a NJ FFL/dealer. Or you can buy one from a gun store or a Dicks or whatnot here in NJ using your FID + PP if a air handgun, and would also have to pay for NICS for either just as a real firearm,etc.

[PK90 3,573]

You can legally buy a BB rifle or Handgun in a dime store with no paper work in PA if they have one.

[Handyman 5,682]

Sheesh. So how does one handle it if you go to a rational state and buy a BB gun off the rack in a toy store? They would not even know what a COE was. So if I go to Cabella's where they sell them off the rack, who do I show a COE to?

[Handyman 5,682]

On the other hand, anyone know of a nice pump BB rifle that isn't a piece of junk? I guess the "Red Ryder" models are all stamped metal crap now.

[PK90 3,573]

Sheesh. So how does one handle it if you go to a rational state and buy a BB gun off the rack in a toy store? They would not even know what a COE was. So if I go to Cabella's where they sell them off the rack, who do I show a COE to?

 

Handle what? It is a toy. Pick it up, go to cashier register, pay for it, and walk out the door.

[PK90 3,573]

On the other hand, anyone know of a nice pump BB rifle that isn't a piece of junk? I guess the "Red Ryder" models are all stamped metal crap now.

 

Look into the Gamo rifles.

[dajonga 397]

Walmart just over the border in PA sold me 2 daisy red riders with no questions asked. As easy as buying toothpaste.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Technically illegal and legal at the same time. Federal law says airguns cannot be defined as firearms. NJ law says otherwise. Technically after a costly lawsuit, you should be able to go free citing the federal law.

 

You could buy one in PA using your FID card + COE any form of legal payment, and bring it back home to NJ , provided it is a long gun rifle. Handgun airguns would be are considered actual firearm handguns in NJ, so they won't want you buying one out of state and bringing it home you need to transport them like they were real handguns. Would not need to go through a NJ FFL/dealer unless purchased in NJ. Or you can buy one from a gun store or a Dicks or whatnot here in NJ using your FID + PP if a air handgun, and but would not also have to pay for NICS for either just as a real firearm,etc.

[TheDon 3]

For new purchases FFL transfer fee + NICS == Cost of BB Gun + gas for drive to PA.

 

ETA:

Interstate purchase of firearms is covered by Federal law, not State.

BB guns are not firearms by Federal definition. There are therefore no regulations to follow. As Paul said, in America, BB guns are toys.

 

Coming back to NJ, you do need a FPID to possess. Also be careful about simply giving it to your kids to keep in their bedrooms as our fathers did for us. All it takes is one of their friends telling his mommy that your kid has a BB gun and ammo in his bedroom... ugh!

[PK90 3,573]

No FPID needed to possess, only to buy.

No NICS in NJ, just a COE.

[CMJeepster 2,781]

If you go across the river, just be sure not to let it slip that you're frm NJ. It will take you an additional 45 minutes for the rookie behind the counter to find, improperly fill out and then properly fill out the paperwork... Ask me how I know.

[KramD52 0]

On the other hand, anyone know of a nice pump BB rifle that isn't a piece of junk? I guess the "Red Ryder" models are all stamped metal crap now.

 

The dilema that you'll have is that there aren't any decent pump style BB rifles. I'm assuming you are talking about multi pump, correct? If you want a multi pump style rifle I would suggest a .177 cal pellet rifle made by Benjamin (Crosman owns company now). These are decent quality with rifled barrels and darn accurate. The Crosman 760 pump BB/Pellet rifle is little more than a toy now IMO. I still have one from when I was a teenager back in the late 70's. After puchasing 2 for my sons about 8 years ago, I was very disappointed in the quality by comparison. BTW, pellets offer better accuacy than BBs and are much less likely to ricochet. If you want a single pump or break barrel style spring air rifle (barrel opens and cocks rifle) Gamo is a nice choice as PK90 suggested. If your kids are under 14 I would suggest the Gamo Recon. Its a nice little pellet rifle and has decent power.

[TK421 2]

What everyone seems to be missing here is 15 U.S.C. section 5001(g). New Jersey is preempted by Federal Law from regulating the sale and therefore the possession of BB guns. This is for the most part the foundation of the Federal challenge to NJ's one gun a month law; because NJ regulates BB pistols as handguns and limits their sales to one a month i.e. prohibiting their sale.

 

15 USC § 5001 - Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms

(a) Acts prohibited

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in subsection (b) of this section.

 

(b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments and changes

(1)Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel of such firearm.

 

(2)The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the theatrical, movie or television industry.

 

(3)The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes in the marking system provided for by this section, after consulting with interested persons.

 

© “Look-alike firearm” defined

For purposes of this section, the term “look-alike firearm” means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

 

(d) Study and report

The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to marked and unmarked firearms.

 

©  1 Technical evaluation of marking systems

The Director of [2] National Institute of Justice is authorized and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking systems provided for in subsection (b) of this section to determine their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

 

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

 

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions

The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

 

(i)prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or

 

(ii)prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

[TK421 2]

If you go across the river, just be sure not to let it slip that you're frm NJ. It will take you an additional 45 minutes for the rookie behind the counter to find, improperly fill out and then properly fill out the paperwork... Ask me how I know.

 

LOL, how do you know? ;-)

[TheDon 3]

What everyone seems to be missing here is 15 U.S.C. section 5001(g). New Jersey is preempted by Federal Law from regulating the sale and therefore the possession of BB guns. This is for the most part the foundation of the Federal challenge to NJ's one gun a month law; because NJ regulates BB pistols as handguns and limits their sales to one a month i.e. prohibiting their sale.

Federal law only preempts States/locals from prohibiting the sale, no prohibition on regulating the sale. And NJ does not prohibit the Sale of BB guns. There is just no market for them in NJ because of the NICS and transfer fees.

[TK421 2]

 

Federal law only preempts States/locals from prohibiting the sale, no prohibition on regulating the sale. And NJ does not prohibit the Sale of BB guns. There is just no market for them in NJ because of the NICS and transfer fees.

 

Think about what you just said. Federal law only provides for limiting sales to minors, so who are they regulating with NICs and such if they can't legally prohibit sales to convicted felons?

[Xchange1980 0]

I dont know if laws have changed but in 2006/2007 cant remember, I went to Cabelas in PA and bought a Gammo BBgun with just my DL and was asked no questions whatsoever. Mind you back then I wasnt aware that they were illigal to possess without a FID card as I didnt know any of the laws I just wanted it to shoot cans in my back yard.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Why not just buy one in NJ? If you live close to a PA store then i guess it might be worth the drive.

[Kasanova 2]

I have bought several BB guns and rifles through pyramidair.com... I have now only 2 hand gun 6mm bbs, which are Airsofts, and three .177 rifles, 2 crosman and one Gamo. The Airsoft are not like that ones you buy at dicks here in NJ. Just buy them and have fun. And build yourself a nice "home range". Enjoy!!!

 

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Think about what you just said. Federal law only provides for limiting sales to minors, so who are they regulating with NICs and such if they can't legally prohibit sales to convicted felons?

 

Don't confuse prohibiting with regulating. OGAM with BB pistols, does not prohibit the sale, instead it regulates the sale.

 

Now im not to savvy with this law, but i would seem you do have a point with prohibited persons purchasing a BB rifle or pistol in nj, since they are categorized as firearms, and therefor, the purchase is prohibited to persons other then minors.

[shizzoizzo7 6]

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Dan 177]

sted Yesterday, 11:38 PM

 

Dan, on 28 September 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

 

Technically illegal and legal at the same time. Federal law says airguns cannot be defined as firearms. NJ law says otherwise. Technically after a costly lawsuit, you should be able to go free citing the federal law.

 

You could buy one in PA using your FID card + COE any form of legal payment, and bring it back home to NJ , provided it is a long gun rifle. Handgun airguns would be are considered actual firearm handguns in NJ, so they won't want you buying one out of state and bringing it home you need to transport them like they were real handguns. Would not need to go through a NJ FFL/dealer unless purchased in NJ. Or you can buy one from a gun store or a Dicks or whatnot here in NJ using your FID + PP if a air handgun, andbut would not also have to pay for NICS for either just as a real firearm,etc.

 

 

NJ considers a bb handgun an actual firearm handgun. This means as a resident of NJ, you have to purchase one anywhere in the country as if it was a real firearm handgun NJ-law wise. That means that technically any out of state dealer needs to follow NJ laws in terms of disposition of firearm handguns when sold to residents of NJ. This means they would need to follow the FID + PP process at a minimum... again technically according to NJ state law. Federal law is to the contrary, which results in a situation where a NJ resident can go to a free state and buy as many airguns as they want, the free state doesn't care as they aren't under federal obligation to follow NJ laws, unlike federal firearms laws. The legality is in question when it is time to bring them back into NJ, according to NJ law they would have all had to be purchased according to NJ's law if you are a NJ resident.

 

I haven't purchased an airgun in awhile here in NJ. What would exempt airgun (rifle or pistols) purchased in NJ from NICS check at time of sale? Just curious

[PK90 3,573]

ATF Form 4473, aka NICS is a Federal form and is not required for non-firearms. i.e. BB, Pellet, Black Powder, etc.

[TK421 2]

 

 

NJ considers a bb handgun an actual firearm handgun. This means as a resident of NJ, you have to purchase one anywhere in the country as if it was a real firearm handgun NJ-law wise. That means that technically any out of state dealer needs to follow NJ laws in terms of disposition of firearm handguns when sold to residents of NJ. This means they would need to follow the FID + PP process at a minimum... again technically according to NJ state law. Federal law is to the contrary, which results in a situation where a NJ resident can go to a free state and buy as many airguns as they want, the free state doesn't care as they aren't under federal obligation to follow NJ laws, unlike federal firearms laws. The legality is in question when it is time to bring them back into NJ, according to NJ law they would have all had to be purchased according to NJ's law if you are a NJ resident.

 

I haven't purchased an airgun in awhile here in NJ. What would exempt airgun (rifle or pistols) purchased in NJ from NICS check at time of sale? Just curious

 

That would be wrong. Federal law requires FFL dealers to follow the laws of both states in a multi state firearm (long gun) transaction. NJ law is irrelevant on sales outside of NJ with respect to BB guns, they are not firearms under federal law and a retailer out side of NJ is under no obligation to follow NJlaw.

[CMJeepster 2,781]

LOL, how do you know? ;-)

 

Ha, hah, ha!!! No one in my area carried what I was looking for in stock, so I jumped the river and got into too long a discussion with the kid at the counter. At least I'm rid of my rodent issue for the time being. Although his brother is moving in on his territory since he "disappeared."

[halbautomatisch 60]

NJ considers a bb handgun an actual firearm handgun - true. This means as a resident of NJ, you have to purchase one anywhere in the country as if it was a real firearm handgun NJ-law wise - incorrect. That means that technically any out of state dealer needs to follow NJ laws in terms of disposition of firearm handguns when sold to residents of NJ - incorrect, NJ law does not apply outside NJ and federal law does not regulate airgun sales in that way. If laws functioned that way, PA residents could not buy alcohol in NJ on Sundays because PA law forbids retail sales of alcohol on Sundays in PA. This means they would need to follow the FID + PP process at a minimum... again technically according to NJ state law - No, not outside NJ. Federal law is to the contrary, which results in a situation where a NJ resident can go to a free state and buy as many airguns as they want, the free state doesn't care as they aren't under federal obligation to follow NJ laws, unlike federal firearms laws - correct. The legality is in question when it is time to bring them back into NJ, according to NJ law they would have all had to be purchased according to NJ's law if you are a NJ resident - NJ requires a permit to PURCHASE a handgun (airguns inclusive), there is no permit to OWN a handgun. Purchasing airguns out of state complies with federal, that state, and NJ's laws, the moment you pay for the airgun at an out of state store you now OWN it, the purchase is complete. If you can show me a law that requires someone to have a permit to own a handgun in NJ I'd like to see it.

 

I haven't purchased an airgun in awhile here in NJ. What would exempt airgun (rifle or pistols) purchased in NJ from NICS check at time of sale? Just curious

[Midwest 28]

I would be surprised if PA asked for a drivers license to buy a BB gun in that state unless that is a local ordinance. Here you have to be over 16 to buy a BB gun. I have never been asked for ID to prove I am over 16 to buy a BB gun. I think Ohio and and Indiana (nearby states) you have to be 16 to 18 to buy a BB gun. Even so if someone looks under 16 then I could understand the need for ID, but I guess the parents would just buy one for their kid.

 

In addition to state laws, I found that some locations have laws regulating them like Cleveland (no BB guns in public places) and Akron (Age 18 minimum). So even if state law allows them, there is no preemption of localities and airguns can be regulated. So it looks like minors are prohibited from having BB guns in some areas.

 

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=165203

 

 

Using Airguns

 

Even here in Kentucky, some towns have no discharge laws and that includes airguns. Florence KY has a no discharge in city limits ordinances (self defense is a valid exception). Other towns have similar ordinances

 

Point being, even after checking state laws, also check the laws of your town to see what additional regulations they put on airguns . Seems like airgun laws vary from town to town as well as state to state and I don't think anyone has ever provided a list of it's comprehensive laws.

[mipafox 438]

I dont know if laws have changed but in 2006/2007 cant remember, I went to Cabelas in PA and bought a Gammo BBgun with just my DL and was asked no questions whatsoever. Mind you back then I wasnt aware that they were illigal to possess without a FID card as I didnt know any of the laws I just wanted it to shoot cans in my back yard.

 

Be careful. Some of those Gamo BB guns have silencers. Since they are permanently attached to a BB gun, they are not NFA devices any more than a soda bottle or a pillow. However, in NJ, they are still silencers, and you will go to jail for a very long time.