Publicity we DO NOT need...

[Chvl67 0]

The one where she used her Constitutional Right to imply the Constitution should be changed

The ironic part is that those who are yelling the loudest for this seem to have absolutely NO CLUE what's involved in actually making that happen.

Hell, I guarantee you this same woman has no idea that the 19th amendment which gave her the right to vote was not ratified in every single state at the time of it's vote-Maryland didn't ratify until 1941, Virginia in 1952, worst of all--Mississippi until 1984...

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Folks, you are in a fight, the other side wants to take you down to 5 round magazines, they want to squash your right, and your still thinking if you use your best behavior they will go away? Be ill-mannered on your feet, or prepare to live on your knees.

 

+1

 

all is fair in love and war.

[gunguy1960 2]

Judging when we need to excercise a right? Did you hear yourself?

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Let me ask you this.

 

Shouting down and heckling a woman who just testified that she wants to protect her children A) helps us or B) hurts us.

 

Dollars to donuts this woman was the 'sole' representative for the Brady Bunches 'Million Mom March', thus she's a paid shill.......

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

This woman went to this hearing very well armed, her magazine had emotion, she used it, and while some may have tried to respond to the threat, the rest where like deer in the headlights. Sounds like she gets in more range time than the gentlemen.

 

she's a seasoned anti gunner.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

+1

 

all is fair in love and war.

Judging when we need to excercise a right? Did you hear yourself?

Do you two honestly believe it helps our cause by shouting down and heckling a woman who voiced a different view, and having that publicized? Or do you simply not care?

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Do you two honestly believe it helps our cause by shouting down and heckling a woman who voiced a different view, and having that publicized? Or do you simply not care?

 

if she's a seasoned anti gunner.....nuts to 'er...

 

you don't get it....anything WE say CAN and WILL be used against us.....so what's the point of trying to play nice?

 

the anti's who heckled the pro gun woman in DC turned around what ever bad press they got....we need to do the same.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

was this the woman who needed a police escort?

 

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

you don't get it....

Sorry Bob, but I don't think you get it.

 

But if you do, how do you propose to get the negative publicity that we earned turned around? Do tell.

 

And no, the woman in the photo isn't her.

[Kaiser7 33]

Poor form and judgment. Heckling only makes them look like bullies.

 

Wait whaat? article says "One Million Moms Against Gun Control", this would mean they are on our side!!!! :girlwacko:

 

There IS a One Million Moms AGAINST Gun Control. They formed in response to OMM for gun control.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

how do you propose to get the negative publicity that we earned turned around? Do tell.

 

as long as it isn't vile, school yard cuss filled name calling, you ignore it and move on.........

 

EVERYTHING we say and do will get spun into negativity, you can say please and thank you all you want, but regardless, you'll be smeared.....

[raz-0 1,259]

Tough T!tty, she should get her big Girl panties on. She overreacted and got all drama-queeny for the express purpose of generating sympathy. My wife thinks she was a plant for that reason, so not all women are buying the Drama Llama.

 

 

She had her big girl pants on. Everything she did was calculated. She entered late, and was out in the hallway working up tears before doing so. What she said did not in any way make sense. She had a family member who killed themselves with a gun. OK, sure. THen she had another family member who died form complications of that? WTF? What does that even mean? It's not even like it was the dead person's elderly mother, one was a sister, one was a cousin IIRC, which would imply there not being a huge age difference between the two. Then she lingered a bit to see she had attention from the press, and then she asked for a police escort form the state police who told her no and to ask the local police.

 

She wanted to show up, be in tears, look like she got bullied by the big bad gun owners, and then had to flee in fear of her life from them. It came off awkwardly, but she got enough to spin something, and that doesn't serve us one bit.

[Vlad G 345]

if she's a seasoned anti gunner.....nuts to 'er...

 

you don't get it....anything WE say CAN and WILL be used against us.....so what's the point of trying to play nice?

 

the anti's who heckled the pro gun woman in DC turned around what ever bad press they got....we need to do the same.

 

Well its good to know you feel that way, just so the rest of us know we'll have to run more damage control. I'd like to say that I am surprised that there are that many gun owners who simply don't understand how to run a public campaign, but I guess I'm really not that surprised.

 

Yes, she is seasoned, yes she prepped her tears outsides the room, etc. That is called being prepared to make your point and inducing the opposition to look like idiots. Exactly what purpose does it serve to play into her game. Our opposition is playing chess, laying traps, consolidating positions, running gambits and playing head games, and some on our side are playing checkers and even then don't understand the rules of the game. A SINGLE one of our opponents guy more news time then 10 of our proponents because a handful of people fell into her trap and played her game.

 

Grow up, the real world is not fair, pretty, or giving everyone equal opportunity. You don't win these fights by playing the game of opponents.

 

I can hardly believe I have to explain this to grown men.

[raz-0 1,259]

if she's a seasoned anti gunner.....nuts to 'er... you don't get it....anything WE say CAN and WILL be used against us.....so what's the point of trying to play nice? the anti's who heckled the pro gun woman in DC turned around what ever bad press they got....we need to do the same.

 

Yes, they will TRY to use anything against you. You can either provide something that helps them do that and makes the message resonate with fence sitters, or you can try to make it look as forced and stretching the point as possible. You don't have to be rude to have the same message, you can even say some pretty extreme stuff without sounding like a frothing at the mouth loon.

 

Case in point, you can say "if you pass this law, the cops better watch out or they'll get shot!" or you can say "Do you really think that creating a situation where any interaction with the police can be good for 15-25 years in the can based on some book keeping and random definitions? Especially when you have established already that any encounter with the police will be a game of he said she said with the cop being believed most of the time regardless? Do you really want any random traffic stop to pose the same risk of incarceration for paperwork as for killing someone? Do you think the relationship between the public and police will be LESS adversarial when every encounter means that the rest of your life is done for if the cop decides to jack you up?"

 

One is a threat that fits nicely into a sound bite. The other is asking why they want to pick a fight with everyone where you are stuck quoting most of it or it won't seem very inflammatory. If you do quote most or all of it, well the whole context gets in. Nobody warms emotionally to a narrative where the bad guy doesn't show up. Don't play the bad guy, it's not in your best interest. IF you really are the bad ass who will shoot them in the face, then I suggest you keep that to yourself and enjoy the element of surprise. In the mean time, don't go screwing up the work of people who are engaging their brains while trying to avoid it coming to that. If you must shout something badmouthing someone, be articulate and vociferous about the bad stuff the government is doing to us and continues to do and how this is just yet one more of a boatload of recent examples.

 

If you aren't getting what I am saying, try going through your day doing the things you need to, but start every interaction with people by saying "F-you you a-hole," and see how your day goes.

[raz-0 1,259]

was this the woman who needed a police escort?

 

No. Dark hair, overly concerned with fashion, possibly younger, but definitely better looking with more TV appeal.

[gunguy1960 2]

Well Ill do your grown man thing and zip it, and if we at least retain the crappy existing laws we have when this is all said and done Ill admit your way worked, if not, and they take even more, time will tell.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

 

 

She had her big girl pants on. Everything she did was calculated. She entered late, and was out in the hallway working up tears before doing so. What she said did not in any way make sense. She had a family member who killed themselves with a gun. OK, sure. THen she had another family member who died form complications of that? WTF? What does that even mean? It's not even like it was the dead person's elderly mother, one was a sister, one was a cousin IIRC, which would imply there not being a huge age difference between the two. Then she lingered a bit to see she had attention from the press, and then she asked for a police escort form the state police who told her no and to ask the local police.

 

She wanted to show up, be in tears, look like she got bullied by the big bad gun owners, and then had to flee in fear of her life from them. It came off awkwardly, but she got enough to spin something, and that doesn't serve us one bit.

 

all these people are agitators, who get schooled on how to play the game by their buddies at the Brady Campaign and CSGV. We need to get schooled on how to play the game as well, by not having good alternative points to their deceptions, then no matter what we do, we will lose.

 

it would have been nice to get her prepping in the hallway on video.......

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

If you must shout something badmouthing someone, be articulate and vociferous about the bad stuff the government is doing to us and continues to do and how this is just yet one more of a boatload of recent examples.

 

That's the problem right there, were dealing Statists here in NJ...government can do no harm, and only wingnuts believe or say otherwise....they truly believe that government 'grants' rights, and does not 'recognize' them. So some how, this has to be overcome.

[Vlad G 345]

That's the problem right there, were dealing Statists here in NJ...government can do no harm, and only wingnuts believe or say otherwise....they truly believe that government 'grants' rights, and does not 'recognize' them. So some how, this has to be overcome.

 

As me an other keep saying, a good chunk of how they gotten to this point has been convincing the middle and themselves that gun owners are bat wielding cave man. A lot of the growth in gun ownership in the last decade has been accomplished by proving we are not. You can't face a gun owning public made of young professionals and business owners and smart and articulated man and women from all walks of life and state their are rednecks. When those folks talk to their friends about guns and don't beat their chest and foam at the mouth, their fence sitting friends are harder to be convinced by the media and political bias.

 

We've been painted as a certain type of people, a type that is easy to discount or dislike in the North East. The best defense is to NOT look like the stereotype, but we can succeed at it 99% of the time and our opponents will grasp on the 1% of the time we fail.

 

Do not play their game.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Asbury Park Press on the hearing...

 

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013302060136

 

no mention of the so-called heckling, but I'll put good money on it being 'Mandi Perlmutter of the New Jersey chapter of One Million Moms for Gun Control'

[axeman_g 128]

_{http://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Mandi%20Perlmutter%20&init=quick&tas=0.12254538248130625#!/mandi.perlmutter}

 

_{facebook page. Got a OMM4GC sign on her page. 40ish, attractiv and involved.}

[Wolfy 51]

As usual, the article isn't even accurate. First, I wouldn't call it "heckled", it was more of some gasps. It wasn't after she said she was against "armed guards in school", it was after she lied when she blamed the NRA for the, paraphrasing here, proliferation of easy guns on the streets. After that ridiculous comment, a few people gasped and groaned at such nonsense.

 

I agree with Keith 100%

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[NickC 23]

Oooo it's Maks! Second in line to speak.

 

[Kaiser7 33]

Well Ill do your grown man thing and zip it, and if we at least retain the crappy existing laws we have when this is all said and done Ill admit your way worked, if not, and they take even more, time will tell.

 

Yeah, acting like a douche only hurts us. You have to act the opposite of what the media wants, and we need to use facts and logic to debate our case. To that extent we need to dress nice and refrain from the "cold dead hands shit" that only alienates us from the average person. We need a good public face if we want people to listen to us. This woman simply used something an idiot did to further her agenda. If she wasnt heckled, then her argument would gave been forgotten since it wasnt well constructed or supported.

 

I should be the PR person for nj gun owners XD

[vass 5]

The way I see it, we have been a silent minority in this state for a long time, too long.

 

Look where our well mannered opposition has gotten us, knee deep in bs laws written for us by people who know nothing about guns, don't give a shit about our constitutional rights and generally do not represent our interests. I think it is time that we become a unified vocal minority in this state as opposed to a silent one.

 

I don't think heckling people is really necessary, but honestly do you think anyone who was on the fence as to our gun rights is going to make up their mind because some lady got heckled?

 

We have no state wide group/ organization (at least none that I could find) by which to organize ourselves in a way in which to muster more than a hundred people to go to these meetings. I would say maybe a handful from this forum will be at each meeting, but honestly that is not going to cut it, there should have been hundreds of pro gun people at each of these meetings. In MD thousands showed up to protest new gun laws, we need that kind of turnout.

 

There is a rally tomorrow in Trenton, I hope to see thousands of the million or so NJ gun owners there, but honestly I wont be shocked if there are only a couple hundred.

 

In other states pro gun officials have submitted bills to stop any new anti-gun legislation, those bills will probably not get passed, but they at least are resisting, we don't even have that, and that is a problem.

 

The other day I was picking up a lower a shop in south Jersey and I asked one of the old timers behind the counter if he was going up to trenton on the 8th, and he told me that he didn't want to make any waves, or start any trouble and he thought it was a bad idea.

 

That mindset is what got us here, that sort of tired complacency.

 

I'm not trying to bust balls or whatever, but I think its time we stopped sitting on our hands and started fighting back.

This forum and these meetings is a start, but we are way beyond the curve, and the time for not making waves is past.

 

/end rant

[smoe_picka 0]

This is almost comical in a very dark, sad and depressing sense. Cooler minds vs. torches and pitchforks. David Vs Goliath. Do your own thing and enjoy your 1st Amendment rights tomorrow. You are all grown men and nobody here needs a sheppard.

[Vlad G 345]

The way I see it, we have been a silent minority in this state for a long time, too long.

 

Look where our well mannered opposition has gotten us, knee deep in bs laws written for us by people who know nothing about guns, don't give a shit about our constitutional rights and generally do not represent our interests. I think it is time that we become a unified vocal minority in this state as opposed to a silent one.

 

Gun ownership in the US has been on the rise, more states now allow carry, NJ hasn't had any really new stupid laws besides one-a-month and smart gun which both generally are not that annoying. There are more shooters at all the ranges, we have more gun shops then 10 years ago. We have more women shooters.

 

So a lot of good was done in the last decade, and people where NOT quiet but they were smart about the approach. Even today, after Sandy Hook, they anti's are struggling to pass laws. At the hearings there were 1-2 anti gun people to the 100+ pro gun.

 

I don't think heckling people is really necessary, but honestly do you think anyone who was on the fence as to our gun rights is going to make up their mind because some lady got heckled?

 

Seriously, there wasn't just heckling, there was booing. I was there. It doesn't matter one if person their changed their mind, there were reporters in the room. THAT is what matters, because no one who gets off their ass to show up at these things is there to have its mind changed, on either side. The show is for politics and media.

 

We have no state wide group/ organization (at least none that I could find) by which to organize ourselves in a way in which to muster more than a hundred people to go to these meetings. I would say maybe a handful from this forum will be at each meeting, but honestly that is not going to cut it, there should have been hundreds of pro gun people at each of these meetings. In MD thousands showed up to protest new gun laws, we need that kind of turnout.

 

There were a hundred people there. I don't know if you where there or planning to be the next one. There are two organizations already, NJ2AS and ANJRPC. Either support them or if you don't like them, start one and prove that you can run one better, don't ask someone else to do it. There is a march tomorrow on Trenton. 10am, be there and maybe we'll have the thousands you are asking for. You couldn't fit another 30 people in the hearing room yesterday.

 

There is a rally tomorrow in Trenton, I hope to see thousands of the million or so NJ gun owners there, but honestly I wont be shocked if there are only a couple hundred.

 

Well I hope you do show up.

 

 

In other states pro gun officials have submitted bills to stop any new anti-gun legislation, those bills will probably not get passed, but they at least are resisting, we don't even have that, and that is a problem.

 

Other states are not NJ. It sucks, but it is the truth. You can fight with what we got or we can move.

 

 

The other day I was picking up a lower a shop in south Jersey and I asked one of the old timers behind the counter if he was going up to trenton on the 8th, and he told me that he didn't want to make any waves, or start any trouble and he thought it was a bad idea.

 

That mindset is what got us here, that sort of tired complacency.

 

Then your answer should have been, well then I can't support your shop and ever buy something from you.

 

 

I'm not trying to bust balls or whatever, but I think its time we stopped sitting on our hands and started fighting back.

This forum and these meetings is a start, but we are way beyond the curve, and the time for not making waves is past.

 

Well, join us, some of us have been fighting for sometime, each in our own way.

[Kaiser7 33]

Oooo it's Maks! Second in line to speak.

 

 

Glad to see they're dressed like normal citizens, not in camo and stuff. THIS is how we turn around the negative perceptions of firearm owners.

 

 

The way I see it, we have been a silent minority in this state for a long time, too long.

 

 

 

We have no state wide group/ organization (at least none that I could find) by which to organize ourselves in a way in which to muster more than a hundred people to go to these meetings. I would say maybe a handful from this forum will be at each meeting, but honestly that is not going to cut it, there should have been hundreds of pro gun people at each of these meetings. In MD thousands showed up to protest new gun laws, we need that kind of turnout.

 

I'm not trying to bust balls or whatever, but I think its time we stopped sitting on our hands and started fighting back.

This forum and these meetings is a start, but we are way beyond the curve, and the time for not making waves is past.

 

/end rant

 

You're right, but we're one hell of a large minority. With 47% of US households having firearms, even with NJ's lower number, we are strong enough to have an impact. We DO need to speak up, and complacency IS bad. We cannot, however, act in a manner which alienates the general public, feeds into negative perceptions of gun owners, or make us seem like assholes/ weirdos. We need to show other people that we are their friends and neighbors. We should also take people out shooting, since that's probably the best way to dispel most of the "guns are evil" stuff they hear. Once they realize it's not just the tool of the criminal, but rather, more often the property of the model citizen, then we will change minds.

 

Can't guarantee what the turnout will be, I'm praying it will be large and from what I'm hearing, it's looking like it will be quite successful, though any able-bodied person who can attend should, and should spread the word.

 

Your assertation that there is no state-wide organization is false. If anything, there may be TOO many, and being fractioned like that may be weakening us. However, NJ2AS is the organization I put the most faith in at the state level. They're an upstart group, only about 2 years old, but they've had quite a bit of success already, and the members are really dedicated to protecting our rights. I suggest you join them. I decided to join with them because I saw firsthand how much they were able to accomplish despite being such a young organization, and they've impressed me more than some other groups, though honestly whether you pick ANJRPC, NJ Second Amendment Society, or both, join something, or assist when you can.

 

Your passion and motivation are inspiring by the way, I'm not criticizing you, but rather, I wish to point you in the direction of the organizations dedicated to protecting our rights so that you will join up. People passionate about protecting their freedom, such as yourself, are the type of people we need. It is time to fight back, and that is what we are doing, but, we must face the fact that there are people out there who want to demonize us and our beliefs, and who portray us as Dip-chewing, camo-wearing, paranoid rednecks, when nothing could be further from the truth. It is a Public image battle as much as it is a political one, we are representative of our beliefs, and if we represent ourselves poorly, people will not find the data supporting our cause convincing, and will continue to ask for useless feel-good legislation that only harms law-abiding citizens.

[vass 5]

Gun ownership in the US has been on the rise, more states now allow carry, NJ hasn't had any really new stupid laws besides one-a-month and smart gun which both generally are not that annoying. There are more shooters at all the ranges, we have more gun shops then 10 years ago. We have more women shooters.

 

The point I was making is that NJ has the second or 3rd worst gun laws in the country, I am not talking about the rest of the country, just the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in NJ.

 

So a lot of good was done in the last decade, and people where NOT quiet but they were smart about the approach. Even today, after Sandy Hook, they anti's are struggling to pass laws. At the hearings there were 1-2 anti gun people to the 100+ pro gun.

 

Yes that was how it was in camden, I was there, but my point is that there should have been 500-1000 pro gun people not 100.

 

Seriously, there wasn't just heckling, there was booing. I was there. It doesn't matter one if person their changed their mind, there were reporters in the room. THAT is what matters, because no one who gets off their ass to show up at these things is there to have its mind changed, on either side. The show is for politics and media.

 

I wasnt there, and I don't condone or encourage heckling, I just dont think it matters, the media does what it wants

 

There were a hundred people there. I don't know if you where there or planning to be the next one. There are two organizations already, NJ2AS and ANJRPC. Either support them or if you don't like them, start one and prove that you can run one better, don't ask someone else to do it. There is a march tomorrow on Trenton. 10am, be there and maybe we'll have the thousands you are asking for. You couldn't fit another 30 people in the hearing room yesterday.

 

There should have been people standing outside, filling 1 room is not good enough in my opinion, and I'm not attacking this forum or other groups, simply stating that we need to do better. I knew vaguely of NJ2AS but thier forum link leads here, so I didn't realize there was a seperate element to them to join, so I'll look into that. I had never heard of ANJRPC and at first glance they come off like a coalition of shooting clubs as opposed to individuals. I'm not asking anyone else to do things for me, merely commenting on a lack of unified resistance/ a state wide group to join and if I couldn't find it new shooters certainly won't. I am web savvy so I may just start something up, I'm going to see what all NJ2AS has going on as creating multiple pro-gun groups/ networks instead of a single giant one is in my opinion counter productive. I'll be there in Trenton.

 

Well I hope you do show up.

 

I will

 

Other states are not NJ. It sucks, but it is the truth. You can fight with what we got or we can move.

 

That is in part my point, I am going to see if I can find out what other states are doing in regards to motivating and mobilizing themselves and see if we can start doing that here, I suggest anyone else with the time and inclination do the same.

 

Then your answer should have been, well then I can't support your shop and ever buy something from you.

 

I didn't buy anything from them it was a transfer on a rifle that i had ordered in april which had been delayed, at the time, that shop was the only one near me that I could find to do transfers. I havent and will never buy from them.

 

Well, join us, some of us have been fighting for sometime, each in our own way.

 

Consider me joined

[vass 5]

You're right, but we're one hell of a large minority. With 47% of US households having firearms, even with NJ's lower number, we are strong enough to have an impact. We DO need to speak up, and complacency IS bad. We cannot, however, act in a manner which alienates the general public, feeds into negative perceptions of gun owners, or make us seem like assholes/ weirdos. We need to show other people that we are their friends and neighbors. We should also take people out shooting, since that's probably the best way to dispel most of the "guns are evil" stuff they hear. Once they realize it's not just the tool of the criminal, but rather, more often the property of the model citizen, then we will change minds. Can't guarantee what the turnout will be, I'm praying it will be large and from what I'm hearing, it's looking like it will be quite successful, though any able-bodied person who can attend should, and should spread the word. Your assertation that there is no state-wide organization is false. If anything, there may be TOO many, and being fractioned like that may be weakening us. However, NJ2AS is the organization I put the most faith in at the state level. They're an upstart group, only about 2 years old, but they've had quite a bit of success already, and the members are really dedicated to protecting our rights. I suggest you join them. I decided to join with them because I saw firsthand how much they were able to accomplish despite being such a young organization, and they've impressed me more than some other groups, though honestly whether you pick ANJRPC, NJ Second Amendment Society, or both, join something, or assist when you can. Your passion and motivation are inspiring by the way, I'm not criticizing you, but rather, I wish to point you in the direction of the organizations dedicated to protecting our rights so that you will join up. People passionate about protecting their freedom, such as yourself, are the type of people we need. It is time to fight back, and that is what we are doing, but, we must face the fact that there are people out there who want to demonize us and our beliefs, and who portray us as Dip-chewing, camo-wearing, paranoid rednecks, when nothing could be further from the truth. It is a Public image battle as much as it is a political one, we are representative of our beliefs, and if we represent ourselves poorly, people will not find the data supporting our cause convincing, and will continue to ask for useless feel-good legislation that only harms law-abiding citizens.

 

Thanks, like I said I'm not trying to bust balls.

I'm going to contact NJ2AS and see what I can do.