Can a NJ resident buy a 20 round mag online and block it at home.

[Hawkin 0]

Is it legal?

[tj462nj 32]

absoutely not legal, you can not have possession of one at any time

[djg0770 481]

You can if your home is not in NJ...

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Eh, technically it's illegal... YMMV.

[BOOMSTICK 6]

Plus online retailers (if that's who you are getting it from) will not ship those to your personal address.

[BigHayden 77]

FWIW, you can legally purchase a standard capacity magazine in PA and block it before you get back to NJ, but if you cross the border with it, you are committing a felony.

[Big Jay 0]

Can you buy? Yes

Can you take deliver of the parts? Yes (technically speaking, fuzzy area here though)

Can you take delivery of an assembled magazine with a capacity greater than 15 rounds? No

 

In THEORY (yes, I said theory)...you can take possession of the parts, block the magazine, and assemble it as a unit able to contain 15 rounds, NO GREATER.

 

My advice is if you are buying 20-30 rd. PMAGS, have them shipped to MidWestPX for blocking. I did that recently and was extremely happy with the results.

 

I bought 3-30rd PMAGs from Botach (decent service despite reviews), had them shipped to MidWestPX in MO (legal there), and he then blocked them legal and sent them to me in NJ.

[nuclearheli 40]

FWIW, you can legally purchase a standard capacity magazine in PA and block it before you get back to NJ, but if you cross the border with it, you are committing a felony.

 

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

[BCeagle 12]

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

 

Such bs, I cant wait to just print my own

[Trunk 4]

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

I think you might have misunderstood her.

[Hawkin 0]

Thanks to everyone for the info. Its so crazy how law abiding citizens have to navigate through all these crazy laws. And gang bangers are walking with anything they want.

[BOOMSTICK 6]

Also, I wouldnt go blocking to 15 just yet.

[BigHayden 77]

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

 

That doesn't sound right... PK90, can you shed some light on this?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

 

That's what you move thought you herd and this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say this.

 

Can you back that up with where it's written, link, copy paste of the text and reference of where it came from.

Also, if its in writing, is it something you can be charged a crime for or guideline that's not a law?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest]

how do you block your own mags? How much does it cost to have someone else block them?

[Big Jay 0]

Actually you cannot legally block, pin or otherwise alter your own magazines without an FFL which specifically licenses you as a "manufacturer". At least according to the ATF agent that went over my federal license requirements. Specifically she was instructing me on what I could or could not do once I received my FFL.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Having an FFL has nothing to with doing work/modifying "accessories". Most likely that ATF agent didn't know what they were talking about or were misinformed.

 

how do you block your own mags? How much does it cost to have someone else block them?

 

In NJ the block has to be "permanent". I've heard everything from permanently attaching the block to the follower and/or permanently affixing the floorplate to the mag.

 

It really depends on the mag. Some designs are more difficult than others to block. I've never blocked an AR mag. My AK mags are blocked with a block made of "star-board". It's a dense marine plasti-board. Right now the floorplates are screwed into the blocks via the floorplate catch hole; heads filed down on the screw so there is nothing to bite into with a screwdriver. I'm working on a way to rivet them. I believe MidWest charged $12-$15 to block my mags.

 

Unfortunately, 85% of blocked magazines in NJ would probably be deemed illegal if some unfortunate incident were to arise.

 

Cut down...that's a different story. I have 15 round p-mags i purchased from Tips Hardware quite some moons ago. They are actually cut down, mag bodies only 15 rounds long. Those...well...I'd love to see them give you a problem for owning those; at least right now with the limit being 15.

[PK90 3,570]

That doesn't sound right... PK90, can you shed some light on this?

 

Yes I can, but I won't. You know the answer.

[HODGIE 3]

The standard gun smith works under a plain ole 01FFL and does not require a Manufacturing FFL(07) or a manufacturing license. This I know for a fact since I have applied for the license here in NJ, was denided due to zoning and will be reaplying in PA shortly where I wont be denied due to zoning.

[nuclearheli 40]

I can only repeat what I was told. It's not the first time that ATF, NJ or another FFL provided bad information. I believed this to be true not just based on my experience with the ATF but also another FFL in NJ. Before becoming an FFL I too purchased firearms and when I attempted to purchase a pistol that only came with 19 round magazines my "go to" FFL refused to do the transaction because of the magazines. When I told him I wanted him to ship the magazines to another dealer in NJ to be pinned he told me that he wouldn't because that dealer didn't have a manufacturers license. That FFL posts regularly on these forums and I sent him a private Email asking him to step up and post on this topic. Obviously he has not. Not easy for people to admit they are wrong like I was.

 

Yet another instance where FFL's are often wrong. Another NJ gun shop had a pistol, second hand, that I had been wanting for years. I went to see the pistol and he gave me an excellent price so I told him I would pay for it and he could transfer it to my inventory until I could obtain a pistol permit. He told me that I didn't need one if my FFL was in my name. He told me to read the law's which I have and still cannot verify his statement. There are no state statues that I can find exempting FFL's from obtaining a pistol permit for their own firearms if they hold a valid NJ retail license. I transferred the firearm to my inventory and when I got my pistol permit I then transferred it to myself.

 

If I was wrong about that as well I would appreciate it if someone would clarify the law that pertains to this situation for me.

 

Turns out the first gun which was a Sig P226 X6 Scantic also took standard P226 magazines so I had the gun shipped without the magazines and purchased new 10 round magazines, which appear to be on their way out the door now also.

[iRace559 0]

Sure Shot once told me that it was illegal for anybody to pin a magazine and that they had to come straight from the manufacturer like that.

 

Meanwhile they had an Ak47 with a riveted magazine sitting right behind them on the wall while there telling me this. I laughed, and haven't went back in there since.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Can you buy? Yes

Can you take deliver of the parts? Yes (technically speaking, fuzzy area here though)

Can you take delivery of an assembled magazine with a capacity greater than 15 rounds? No

 

In THEORY (yes, I said theory)...you can take possession of the parts, block the magazine, and assemble it as a unit able to contain 15 rounds, NO GREATER.

 

My advice is if you are buying 20-30 rd. PMAGS, have them shipped to MidWestPX for blocking. I did that recently and was extremely happy with the results.

 

I bought 3-30rd PMAGs from Botach (decent service despite reviews), had them shipped to MidWestPX in MO (legal there), and he then blocked them legal and sent them to me in NJ.

 

please site the portion of the law that dictates you can have a 15+ round magazine in your possesion in parts?

 

the law states "has teh capability of accepting more than" it does not state the condition of readily being able to accept more than.. that coupled with the general anti gun spirit of the NJ government I would say that magazine in parts is NOT legal..

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

[Big Jay 0]

please site the portion of the law that dictates you can have a 15+ round magazine in your possesion in parts?

 

the law states "has teh capability of accepting more than" it does not state the condition of readily being able to accept more than.. that coupled with the general anti gun spirit of the NJ government I would say that magazine in parts is NOT legal..

 

Don't have to, you did it for me.

 

Makes it pretty difficult to "hold more 15 rounds of ammunition, be fed continuously and directly" when it's in parts now doesn't it? Last I checked a "hi-cap" magazine in parts:

 

-Accepts 0 rounds

-Doesn't feed

-Certainly not continuously

 

Parts of magazines are just that...parts. Magazines parts all assembled, that's a magazine.

 

Same reason you can ship uppers to NJ that have flash hiders, bayo lugs, etc. It's not a complete "firearm". Also the same reason you can ship lowers with collapsible stocks. Once again, not a complete firearm.

 

Now if the law said "or PARTS there of" it's different story. Why do you think so many places sell rebuild kits?

 

If you get in some sort of trouble would you want to have all those things in your possession? Probably not. Once again, law is often interpreted at the time and place of enforcement.

 

Also, aren't you blocking these things anyway? Even in blocking:

 

-Follower goes in first

-Then spring

-Block

-Permanently attach floorplate OR block.

 

Ok, ya got me...you're illegal for about 5 minutes.

 

I don't think these rivets stopping the follower from accepting more than 15 rounds will cut it either. So a lot of you guys with "blocked" mags could potentially have some problems. As I said, from what I've been told the block needs to be permanent. Prying a rivet out with a chisel is not permanent. Cutting with a dremel, bending, breaking...that's probably what they're looking for.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Don't have to, you did it for me.

 

Makes it pretty difficult to "hold more 15 rounds of ammunition, be fed continuously and directly" when it's in parts now doesn't it? Last I checked a "hi-cap" magazine in parts:

 

-Accepts 0 rounds

-Doesn't feed

-Certainly not continuously

 

Parts of magazines are just that...parts. Magazines parts all assembled, that's a magazine.

 

Same reason you can ship uppers to NJ that have flash hiders, bayo lugs, etc. It's not a complete "firearm". Also the same reason you can ship lowers with collapsible stocks. Once again, not a complete firearm.

 

Now if the law said "or PARTS there of" it's different story. Why do you think so many places sell rebuild kits?

 

If you get in some sort of trouble would you want to have all those things in your possession? Probably not. Once again, law is often interpreted at the time and place of enforcement.

 

Also, aren't you blocking these things anyway? Even in blocking:

 

-Follower goes in first

-Then spring

-Block

-Permanently attach floorplate OR block.

 

Ok, ya got me...you're illegal for about 5 minutes.

 

I don't think these rivets stopping the follower from accepting more than 15 rounds will cut it either. So a lot of you guys with "blocked" mags could potentially have some problems. As I said, from what I've been told the block needs to be permanent. Prying a rivet out with a chisel is not permanent. Cutting with a dremel, bending, breaking...that's probably what they're looking for.

 

here.. read this..

 

The State recognizes that some of its representatives may have provided

informal advice to the effect that an ammunition magazine may be temporarily

blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds; however, the Attorney General has never

expressly adopted this position. To the contrary, through the promulgation of

this regulation, the State expressly rejects that interpretation of the

statute. Any person who currently owns or possesses an ammunition magazine

which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds is hereby

advised that he or she may retain possession of that ammunition magazine until

the effective date of this amendment, that is, the date the notice of its

adoption by the Division of State Police is published by the Office of

Administrative Law in the New Jersey Register, see N.J.A.C. 1:30-6.6. During

this time period, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which

has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall either: (1)

transfer such ammunition magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to

own or possess a large capacity ammunition magazine; (2) render such ammunition

magazine permanently incapable of holding more than 15 rounds; or (3)

voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12. After the effective date of this amendment, a person who

owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked

from holding more than 15 rounds shall voluntarily surrender the ammunition

magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12 or risk prosecution

for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine pursuant to N.J.S.A.

2C:39-3(j).

 

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm

 

there is no difference between temporary blocked.. and parts kits...

the end result is the same to the state... a magazine that could be assembled into a high(er) capacity mag...

 

right or wrong.. the state does not want you to have in your possession a magazine that has ANY capacity to EVER hold more than 15 rounds.. period.. that is their intention... will you win in court? maybe? will you end up in court? maybe? not worth it to find out..

[Big Jay 0]

here.. read this..

 

 

 

http://www.state.nj....p/rp010702a.htm

 

there is no difference between temporary blocked.. and parts kits...

the end result is the same to the state... a magazine that could be assembled into a high(er) capacity mag...

 

right or wrong.. the state does not want you to have in your possession a magazine that has ANY capacity to EVER hold more than 15 rounds.. period.. that is their intention... will you win in court? maybe? will you end up in court? maybe? not worth it to find out..

 

That distinguishes between "temporarily blocked" (meaning: pull the plate off, slip a block, in done) and "permanently altered". That basically defines that magazines rendered less than 15 rounds using the former method. There they state that if you have a 30 round magazine with a blocked squeezed in, it's not going to cut it anymore. You'll now need to permanently alter the follower, floorplate, or body to accept no more than 15 rounds.

 

Think about it this way: You order a lower with a collapsible stock (not illegal). The second that lower is pinned on to an upper it's illegal. The PARTS of an AR15 are not illegal. Same with magazines. A disassembled firearm does not function as a firearm. A disassembled magazine does not function as a magazine. Simple as that. It does not feed, does not do so continuously, and holds zero rounds.

 

I will agree that making a habit or practice of skirting the legality of something is not smart.

 

Now if you read NY law. They use the language of "Can be converted or rebuilt too". This is more liberal language defining what constitutes an actual magazine.

 

Like I said, no one should make a practice of owning illegal things. However, i know of people who ordered parts kits (specifically AK) and welded a rod to the follower making it legal. That according to their definition would be legal.

[BigHayden 77]

Think about it this way: You order a lower with a collapsible stock (not illegal). The second that lower is pinned on to an upper it's illegal. The PARTS of an AR15 are not illegal.

 

I don't think that's true. If the lower has a pistol grip, it already has two "evil features" (detachable magazine and pistol grip) and the adjustable stock makes it an assault firearm, even though it cannot fire a single round if there is no upper to go with it, since the lower is the firearm.

 

If you were talking about an upper that comes with a flash suppressor and bayonet lug, but you do not have the lower for it, then your analogy makes more sense, since the evil features on the upper do not count until it is part of a rifle (or, at least, you have constructive possession).

[Big Jay 0]

I don't think that's true. If the lower has a pistol grip, it already has two "evil features" (detachable magazine and pistol grip) and the adjustable stock makes it an assault firearm, even though it cannot fire a single round if there is no upper to go with it, since the lower is the firearm.

 

If you were talking about an upper that comes with a flash suppressor and bayonet lug, but you do not have the lower for it, then your analogy makes more sense, since the evil features on the upper do not count until it is part of a rifle (or, at least, you have constructive possession).

 

That would be incorrect. Individuals have lowers with all those features shipped to FFLs in NJ all the time who then subsequently transfer the "firearm".

 

A lower without an upper is nothing more than a nice paper weight, or maybe a club.

 

This is something that many people don't know within NJ. Which is understandable because our laws are very difficult to interpret.

[mipafox 438]

You can buy it online, have it shipped it to me, and I'll send you a picture of me using it

[BigHayden 77]

That would be incorrect. Individuals have lowers with all those features shipped to FFLs in NJ all the time who then subsequently transfer the "firearm".

 

A lower without an upper is nothing more than a nice paper weight, or maybe a club.

 

This is something that many people don't know within NJ. Which is understandable because our laws are very difficult to interpret.

 

Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy, but aren't AR lowers transferred as rifles in NJ?

[Big Jay 0]

Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy, but aren't AR lowers transferred as rifles in NJ?

 

To make it even MORE complicated (LOL)...I *HEARD* (i say that to cover my rear) is that they are actually treated as handguns by the ATF. Further complicates things.

 

All I know is many people i know have taken transfer of them in the state of NJ with collapsible stocks. Just pin them properly before mounting to an upper. That's all.

[mipafox 438]

To make it even MORE complicated (LOL)...I *HEARD* (i say that to cover my rear) is that they are actually treated as handguns by the ATF. Further complicates things.

 

 

They are not treated as handguns by ATF.