What can't a 12 gauge shotgun kill?

[High Exposure 5,669]

This is very disconcerting. Is 00B really not as bad ass as I thought ?

From 25 yards away if I hit a guy dead on center to the belly is that not an immediate stopper?

Is a 223 dead on balls to the belly better? I think I'd better go watch those TNoutdoors ballistic videos again.

Nothing you can hold in your own two hands is so badass that it guarantees a one shot stop all the time.

 

Shot placement is key and regardless of the platform (pistol caliber, 12g, .223/5.56, .308/7.62) hitting someone in the belly - instead of somewhere more critical - is less than optimal. While a shot to the gut is no morale booster, it is not likely to give you the exact results you are wanting at the time you pressed the trigger.

 

Physiologically - Barring a direct CNS hit that shuts off the porch lights, winning a gunfight is a simple hydraulics problem. You need to de-pressurize the system - let air in, let blood out - so the blood pressure drops. (Careful though, when horizontal and the weight of the body applying pressure to the wounds, blood pressure can return to a level that allows the threat to continue the fight from the ground. That is why a post engagement sequence including an assessment phase is so important to train for.) In my experience responding to and investigating shootings and training with those that have been involved in shootings, more holes faster is better than big holes slower. Where those holes are though is the biggest factor. All of the largest blood vessels and the heart and lungs are in the upper chest area. This make this part of the body the primary target area for rapid incapacitation of a threat.

 

Psychologically/metabolically - The bad guy gets a vote. The human body is an amazing peice of machinery and the old saying "mind over matter" is especially true when dealing with an imbalanced or chemically "enhanced" adversary. There are countless instances where a bad guy has been hit with multiple rounds that a Dr. or M.E. has ruled should have been "instantly incapacitating or fatal" yet the aggressor continues to fight for quite some time before succumbing to their wounds and ending the fight. Sometimes they even make a full recovery after medical intervention.

 

Around 3 months ago in New Brunswick, a guy was shot 3 times with a handgun (I am unsure of the caliber) in the upper chest area (it was a-hole on a-hole violence). All three rounds passed through the bad guy and by Dr. reports, any of the three should have been fatal. He lived. The girl standing behind him got hit in the shoulder/arm with all three rounds after they passed through the intended targets body. She passed away.

 

Wow wow wow. Okay, how about at 15 yards? At 15 yards would a direct hit to belly cause a hole big enough for intestines to fall out?

I'm not being sarcastic here, this is for making me rethink HD situations.

And I def don't want this thread to drift to HD choices i just would like to realistically know how much of a hole 00B opens up on a human wearing regular clothes from 15 yards

The upper chest area, think of a triangle with the three points being the two nipples and the base of the throat, is the primary target area for rapid incapacitation. If you don't have that target area and you can positively ID your threat, aim for the center of mass of the largest part of the body you can see whether it is a foot, a forearm, hip, hand or belly. A hit to a peripheral body part, while it may not end the fight, is better than no hits at all.

 

At hit from 00B at 15 yards will most likely not open up someone's belly as you are describing. Depending on the load used, it will most likely look like you shot them 8-9 times with a .38/9mm.

 

If hunters use 3" magnum loads on deer regularly and it doesn't shred them like that the low-recoil "tactical" rounds sold for HD won't do it either with a straight on shot.

[Barms 98]

No matter what you use it's all about shot placement wether it's a 22lr or a 50bmg.... Well maybe not a 50cal lol

 

 

Sent from my hidden under ground bunker between Taco Bell and the dry cleaner

I agree. That's why why I inquired about direct hit to the belly