General Questions about Rifle Reloading

[lunker 274]

I had sent this to a member here, but figured I would make it a general distribution and see what the members thought. 

 

I was hoping to get some advice. Currently I reload exclusively for pistol but would like to branch out into rifle. I am somewhat familiar, as I have done it on friend's presses, but had not been involved in the case prep and preliminary setup (i.e. the important stuff). The only two calibers I would be loading for are 223 and 308 at the current time. It would be for an AR in 223, and a bolt action and a CMP Garand in 308. I would like to start acquiring what I need to do this. 

I have a Dillon 550B progressive press. I would imagine that as I start out I would be using it as a single stage though (i.e. running all my cases through one stage, then running them all through the next, etc) when loading for rifle. At least at first. 

An experienced reloader here recommended the WTF trimmer. I was considering one, but had a question about case length. I know the WTF trims based on a measurement from the shoulder. I could see this working well if you are using brass that all has the same headstamp, but i know there are length differences between different brands. This would mean that the overall length of the cases will vary after trimming, if the body length (from rim to shoulder) is different between pieces of brass. Is there a solution to this? Would I run them through a sizing die first? 

Are there any dies you recommend? Dillon pistol dies are pretty good for pistol, but i have found I needed a Lee Full Length Crimp die to get my ammo to fit in match barrels. The consensus on the internet is that their carbide rifle dies are really good. I have read that the RCBS X dies are decent at maintaining the length and longevity of brass.  

I have an 8lb jug of Varget, but I would rather deal with ball powder for metering in my Dillon. It doesn't handle flake or stick powder measurement as well as ball. My old 10mm loads with 800X powder had too much variation for me to feel comfortable shooting max loads. Does anyone have any good 223/308 ball powder recommendations?

Lastly, I can't throw that much money at this yet with my wife due with our first child in early September. Otherwise I would look at a Giraud trimmer and a nice powder thrower, etc.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations. 

[gimmemym1 34]

Always resize before you trim. I have the X dies for multiple calibers and I love em. As far as trimming goes I use the Forster original case trimmer. It comes with different pilots and collets to do multiple calibers. Can't help you with ball powder, I only use stick powder for rifle. For a powder thrower I use the RCBS one that came with my Rockchucker, its always dead on. And for pistol I use the one that came with my LNL press.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Chris:

 

While I have reloaded for a lot of rifles and rifle cartridges, I have never reloaded for use in a semi-auto rifle. I have been told - and I'm sure that a bunch of people on here will probably disagree - that for a S/A you should use small-base dies to insure positive chambering. Aside from that, I can't offer much. Good luck and congrats on the soon to be new addition.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[T Bill 649]

I would get a set of LE Wilson case gauges about $25 each. They will help to check your brass after resizing for proper case length, etc!

 

I use Hornady dies, been happy with those. Get a cheap Lee deprime die, crimped primer pockets are a **** on resizing die sometimes. Will also need something to swage primer pockets, if necessary.

 

Brass headspaces on shoulder so WFT trimmer will bring it inline. I have an old Lyman trimmer, PIA to use but works. I only trim after case exceeds length, not at every reload. Trim down to near minimum SAAMI spec and keep shooting. Keep the lots together to minimize case length changes.

 

Ball Powders are all I use. If looking for one powder for both, Winchester 748, Hodgdon BC-L(2), H335, CFE223, and Ramshot TAC are on the list. W748 has worked great for me for years, but I don't push the loads, just middle of the road stuff. Brass lasts longer that way. The others are good. TAC has a big following in 223 but hard to get around me.

 

An example of W748 for 223 would be 1.750 trim, 55fmj, 25.0 748, 2.20 OAL.

 

My first reloads where for 30-06, done on a RCBS rock chucker, Hornady dies and hand tools, Lyman trimmer, and Lee dippers for powder throws. Worked quite well for what is was.

[lunker 274]

Good luck and congrats on the soon to be new addition.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thanks Bob. The countdown has commenced.

 

Brass headspaces on shoulder so WFT trimmer will bring it inline. I have an old Lyman trimmer, PIA to use but works. I only trim after case exceeds length, not at every reload. Trim down to near minimum SAAMI spec and keep shooting. Keep the lots together to minimize case length changes.

 

Thanks T Bill. 

I understand that rifle bullets headspace on the shoulder, so from the neck length perspective it will be OK. But it doesn't take into account the OAL. What trimming would monitor the OAL?

[T Bill 649]

None, don't need it case is fire formed to chamber.  Bench resters never full length resize.  Only semi-auto brass should be resized for feeding purposes.  This is where those gauges come in.

 

http://www.lewilson.com/products.html

 

See "case gages" near bottom of page

 

Brass has only one way to go in a chamber, towards the muzzle. When you resize you squeeze the brass back into shape with the overage going to the case mouth.  In not so technical terms.

[Bagarocks 36]

I use the WFT for 223, It replaced the lee 3 Jaw chuck you put in your drill chuck. I like it and its fully adjustable to whichever length you choose. I use H335 spherical powder for both 223 and 7.62

I also use Hodgdon Benchmark,an Extreme Extruded propellant for 223 Rem. and it performs superbly with light match bullets in 308 Winchester. With small, easy metering granules.

 

My steps for rifle prepping

1. decap with Lee universal decapper

2. Clean with Lock N load sonic cleaner

3. Inspect all cases under magnification lamp

4. lube with RCBS case slick spray

5. Resize with lee Full length sizer ( use collet neck sizer on "my" brass only)

6. trim with WFT trimmer

7. Clean with Cabela's case tumbler with corn cob media and brass cleaner

8. Prep cases with Lyman case prep xpress

Cases are now ready to reload.

[monmouth 19]

I use the Lee Pacesetter set for my .223 semi.  Like mentioned above, get the Lee Universal decapping die.

 

As for as ball powder, I load my .223 semi with the following (dyodd):

- Winchester brass

- Remington 7.5 primer

- 25g of BlC-2

- Montana Gold 55g

[Rob0115 1,105]

+1 x-dies small base.  The WFT is better than anything I've seen short of spending money on a Giraud.  I use Giraud for .223, .308, 6.5 Grendel.  I use WFT for 5.7x28 and .300 AAC (haven't loaded any but have done the prep).

 

It's the same principals as pistol. This is how I do it, lube, size, swage (if necessary), tumble in stainless media until it looks like new (not really necessary but I like it), prime, add powder, seat and crimp.  Lot's of debate on crimp.  I use the RCBS TC seating die and put a very modest crimp to prevent push back in the AR.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[JonF 79]

As others said, resize *before* trimming, then your datum point (the shoulder) is a constant for all heasdstamps and the WFT will come out the same +/- a few thousandths every time. The pro's of the WFT are that its super fast and trimming in general is a LONG and TEDIOUS part of the reloading process. The downside is that once you accumulate enough calibers, all those WFT trimmers start to add up and then a hand or power trimmer that takes caliber conversions is a better option, but at the sacrifice of speed. IF you're only going to do 2 calibers, the WFT's will be fine though.

 

To further reduce the growth and trimming scenario, X-Die, X-Die, X-Die! Did i mention X-Die? Lol

Seriously, i have been using the X-Dies for my 223's (ar-15) and 30-06 (garand) and other than the initial trimming, i'm still NOT needing to trim and i have gone though 6 reloadings of the same brass batch. Its pretty awesome. COmparitively, i have to trim my 7.5 swiss and 6.5 creedmoor brass every other firing like clockwork. What a awesome timesaver.

 

For small base, its not always necessary. I use it for the 223 brass, but not the 30-06 because my AR has a tighter chamber whereas the garand is nothing special. To TRULY know, you would need to try regular full length( non small-base) dies and if you have an issue with the cases being tight and have feeding issues, then go with small base. Of course that means buying new dies so you almost want to decide ahead of time but its really an as-needed type situation. You can make a fairly educated prediction though in that if you are shooting semi-auto and yoru chamber is some super tight match chamber, that might be a good candidate for small base. Otherwise, if its a normal chamber, its probably not necessary. The extra amount it compresses is fairly minimal so there's no harm in proactively using them if you have any doubt. RCBS even makes 223 small base X-Dies so you're in luck!

 

For easy charging of any powder, get the lee dipper set. Seriously, nothing is faster and has the same level of accuracy than using the dippers to throw 99% of hte charge then use a trickler to dispense that last fraction of a grain, then pour it down the funnel. The cheapo lee perfect powder measure will handle the big pizza-pie flake and long cat turd extruded powders easily, but i find its % error is a little too high for near max precicsion loads (fine for low/med power plinker loads though).

[stifffingers 0]

I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned headspace. As a Benchrest shooter, we do full length size after every shot because our case tolerances are so critical. However our methods are just a little different. First we deprime the case without any sizing. Then with a comparator attachment on our caliper and a bump gauge inserted we measure the distance between the shoulder and base of the case. Since your fire formed case is a perfect match to your chamber, use this measurement to set up your full length die. On a bolt action rifle you only want to bump the shoulder back .001 to.002.. This will allow you to maintain perfect headspace no matter what brass you use. For a semi auto you must bump the shoulder back .003 to .005.. The reason being the free floating firing pins used in those guns. The bump gauges are available from Midway and Sinclair.