Will you open carry in PA?

[vladtepes 1,060]

So now you just OC...making it even easier to get to if you encounter an aggressive animal that is directly threatening you.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

 

consider everything else that goes with that... good quality holster with retention.. easier for you to get to sure... but with the wrong holster easier for someone else to get to as well.. 

[magnawing 5]

He's talking about backpacking...I doubt he'll encounter too many thugs. Unless he's hiking through Allentown. I don't think bears or other non-human animals will attempt to disarm him.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[mipafox 438]

I have said this before.. not that it makes it right or wrong.. but the further east you are the more chance of hassle.. also know that businesses can disallow you to carry firearms in them.. 

Businesses can disallow you to wear red underwear. The difference between that and a firearm is zero in PA.

 

I've never heard of any businesses "further east" that "disallow" carry of firearms except for Ikea. And why would I give a crap if they did? I just wouldn't spend my money there.

 

There aren't any. You make it sound like people should research the places they go. I've been in every grocery, Bed Bath and Beyond, Macy's, those girl stores (Michelle?), hippy stores (Vicks Vapor Rub top lip), flower stores, everything girlie, or Obama, every damn store on the face of the planet for over 6 years.

 

If you have some personal experience "further east" I would like to hear it.

[quikz 34]

Several years ago. I Oc'd at a restairant 0.5 miles away from destination, in uniform, w 3 carry permits, near Telford, PA. LONG drive , was hungry that's why.

 

Got harassed by a dad w his duaghters at restaurant. I was polite, I left. Cops in same town along w partner who was cop, got a kick outta it and all say I was 100% legal. More than legal.

 

However, I always , always like discretion. Never like 'OC-ing'. This one time, cause I was starving. I did and got harrassed. Dont think everybody in PA is somehow, HARDCORE GUN this or that. Simply not the case and simply hope they dont slide down the road where NJ is bottom feeding.

[big five 1]

Where is the law that states any USA cizten can OC in PA?

 

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[magnawing 5]

Where is the law that states any USA cizten can OC in PA?

 

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I believe the proper question is "where is the law that states any USA citizen can't OC in PA?

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[big five 1]

Im just scares to OC in pa as NJ resem

 

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[mipafox 438]

Got harassed by a dad w his duaghters at restaurant. I was polite, I left.

How is that being polite? You weren't polite, you pussied out to him.

 

You open carried once and got harassed? That is quite bizarre. Like I said, 6 years, every day, even much of the winter, never a problem anywhere.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Businesses can disallow you to wear red underwear. The difference between that and a firearm is zero in PA.

I've never heard of any businesses "further east" that "disallow" carry of firearms except for Ikea. And why would I give a crap if they did? I just wouldn't spend my money there.

There aren't any. You make it sound like people should research the places they go. I've been in every grocery, Bed Bath and Beyond, Macy's, those girl stores (Michelle?), hippy stores (Vicks Vapor Rub top lip), flower stores, everything girlie, or Obama, every damn store on the face of the planet for over 6 years.

If you have some personal experience "further east" I would like to hear it.

I've read more than one instance on the PA site about certain stores aggravating PA residents about open carry... Right in the pinned FAQ section on the PA site it states they can ask you to leave... My experience has been people in the middle of nowhere PA seam to care about it less... When I am further east i notice many more no firearms signs... Places like malls... Maybe your experience is totally different, I am simply stating what I've seen...

[mipafox 438]

I've read more than one instance on the PA site about certain stores aggravating PA residents about open carry... Right in the pinned FAQ section on the PA site it states they can ask you to leave... My experience has been people in the middle of nowhere PA seam to care about it less... When I am further east i notice many more no firearms signs... Places like malls... Maybe your experience is totally different, I am simply stating what I've seen...

Is it PAFOA?

 

Most of that stuff is old. Things are a lot different now. Also, keep in mind, a very high percentage of people that OC either are on that site, once were on that site, or are sent to the site as soon as something happens. So pretty much every time anybody has ever had any problem in PA it was put there. In other words, it is a collection of the bad (in more ways than one). It's kind of like working in a QC department - you get 100 complaint letters per week and 1 letter per month saying how great your product is, and that letter always seems to come from a crazy person.

 

"Places such as malls" - I think you mean "malls." I have NEVER seen a no firearms sign on a store in PA. Can you name a place other than malls?

 

As for malls, about 8 years ago, ALL malls in PA had no firearms signs. They are generally managed by a very small number of companies and all buy their policy and PR packages from the same places. A number of years ago some of them started taking the signs down for reasons unknown.

 

No, my experience is not different - mine is typical. And my experience is not different from yours, because you have never been hassled carrying in the east either.

 

The only place people are hassled in PA is the Philly area.

[boo 6]

Personally, I'm just more afraid its going to incite more nagging from my wife. "Why do you have to walk around with a f@#$ing gun? Why in God's name do you have to own three guns anyways?" My response, "Three guns? What makes you think <pause> yeah, umm, I have three guns".

 

I'm probably going to start with car carry until I get more comfortable. I'm often in Hazelton, and from internet searches, I noticed there's a resident there who was initially hassled, but has been a one-man OC campaign and has been preconditioning LEO. I was there at a liquor store last winter. I was waiting in line to pay for my purchase, and I noticed an armed security guard look at me in alarm and then position himself behind me. I thought it was kind of weird, but I was carrying an M&P Shield IWB, and the eBay kydex holster I bought annoys me for not having enough cant I'm always manually shifting it forward. I bet he noticed me fiddling with it and positioned himself accordingly, but there was no incident. I paid for my purchase and I was on my way. I'll have to say, while that town isn't Camden, I feel far more safe carrying there.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Is it PAFOA?

 

Most of that stuff is old. Things are a lot different now. Also, keep in mind, a very high percentage of people that OC either are on that site, once were on that site, or are sent to the site as soon as something happens. So pretty much every time anybody has ever had any problem in PA it was put there. In other words, it is a collection of the bad (in more ways than one). It's kind of like working in a QC department - you get 100 complaint letters per week and 1 letter per month saying how great your product is, and that letter always seems to come from a crazy person.

 

"Places such as malls" - I think you mean "malls." I have NEVER seen a no firearms sign on a store in PA. Can you name a place other than malls?

 

As for malls, about 8 years ago, ALL malls in PA had no firearms signs. They are generally managed by a very small number of companies and all buy their policy and PR packages from the same places. A number of years ago some of them started taking the signs down for reasons unknown.

 

No, my experience is not different - mine is typical. And my experience is not different from yours, because you have never been hassled carrying in the east either.

 

The only place people are hassled in PA is the Philly area.

 

 

sure I can think of other places... I was just in Harrisburg a few weeks ago (which is plenty west) and near the outlets.. there was some store there that I noticed had one... I remember pointing it out to my fiance.. but not what the store actually was.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

when in eastern PA I carry concealed.. I mostly carry concealed.. 

 

and just to add.. my comments are not to persuade someone to carry or not to carry I could care less.. what I am telling you is I read accounts of people being confronted in places like Home depot.. being ultimately asked to leave.. and further not finding any resolution at the corporate level.. so people just need to be aware of all this before carrying openly.. 

[mipafox 438]

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when in eastern PA I carry concealed.. I mostly carry concealed..&nbsp;

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and just to add.. my comments are not to persuade someone to carry or not to carry I could care less.. what I am telling you is I read accounts of people being confronted in places like Home depot.. being ultimately asked to leave.. and further not finding any resolution at the corporate level.. so people just need to be aware of all this before carrying openly..&nbsp;

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That is misleading.

 

Home Depot allows OC 100%.

 

No corporate resolution? I know somebody that was asked to cover their sidearm at Home Depot. They contacted Home Depot Corporate and all living hell broke lose at Home Depot. The CEO of the company himself copied the guy on an email to counsel, operations, and a couple other people and he got a personal apology from the VP. Then, he got a personal apology from the store manager who trained all his people not to do that.

 

Mind you - he wasn't asked to leave, just asked to cover his sidearm. And CEO of Home Depot got involved.

 

Where is this incident of somebody being asked to leave a Home Depot and not getting any resolution at the corporate level? Home Depot made it 100% clear about 8 years ago that they support any legal carry whatsoever. You seem to be find some outliers and drawing some extremely inaccurate conclusions because of your personal fears.

 

Also, you said there are many places you have seen out east with No Guns signs, now you say you have seen ONE but you don't remember what it was. Name one?

 

You are being a sissy.

 

Are you saying my example of OC for 6 years with no harassment, and without seeing any no guns signs on a store, is an exception? It's not. I have several friends who have open carried the same length or time or longer. From Bucks to the Poconos. You saw some complain on an internet forum and for some reason extrapolated that it must be commonplace. It's not. You just don't know how to listen.

 

By the way - Those complaints were NOT greater in the East than where you live.

[mipafox 438]

&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

I've read more than one instance on the PA site about certain stores aggravating PA residents about open carry... Right in the pinned FAQ section on the PA site it states they can ask you to leave...

You just quoted me saying they can ask you to leave over wearing red underwear. Now you are telling me they can ask you to leave for having a gun. There is no law saying they can ask you to leave for having a gun, it's the same as red underwear - they can ask you to leave for wearing red underwear, a gun or a watch.

 

It is amazing to me that you became so learned about NJ firearms law, which is pretty complex, and haven't even given a half measure about PA law now that you actually carry firearms and are dabling in NFA.

 

My experience has been people in the middle of nowhere PA seam to care about it less... When I am further east i notice many more no firearms signs... Places like malls... Maybe your experience is totally different, I am simply stating what I've seen...

You have no experience. You've never open carried in the east, and you've backpedaled to the point of saying you saw one store with a no guns sign, the name of which you can't remember.

 

You are afraid to open carry. That is fine. Many people are not comfortable with it, or simply make a decision to choose not to. You have gone father than that. You are afraid of of it, think bad things will happen, and have established a confirmation bias to the point where you think any story you see anywhere proves people who OC in the east (no different than where you are) must be harassed on a regular basis and ignore overwhelming evidence that people in the east (or where you live) OC every day for years on end and never have any problems, and the overwhelming evidence that this is the rule and not the exception.

 

BTW, I am ALSO not trying to convince anybody to OC vs. CC. You are simply giving very bad information and scaring people. I think people should know what they can expect - it's sure as hell nothing like what you say.

 

I have already said in this very thread that if it would be a disaster to be asked to leave a store or spend a night in jail(1*) and be exonerated than don't do it. The difference between you and me is, you are suggesting to people that there is reasonable chance it will happen. Based on absolutely zero experience, while I have at least 60 years experience between me and my friends up and down the Eastern border of PA that have have no real problems.

 

I am concerned that you are misleading people. If you want to be paranoid yourself, I don't think that's as big of an issue since you don't want to OC anyway. But there are a lot of people on this board that have no option other than OC in PA and you are horribly misrepresenting the likelihood of any risks with no personal or even second-hand experience whatsoever. So I want to try to balance that.

 

(1*) - Footnote - I have have never in my life heard of any person spending a night in jail for legal carry of any sort in PA. But I threw it out earlier in this thread as I guess a worst case possibility.

[vladtepes 1,060]

&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp;You just quoted me saying they can ask you to leave over wearing red underwear. Now you are telling me they can ask you to leave for having a gun. There is no law saying they can ask you to leave for having a gun, it's the same as red underwear - they can ask you to leave for wearing red underwear, a gun or a watch.

 

It is amazing to me that you became so learned about NJ firearms law, which is pretty complex, and haven't even given a half measure about PA law now that you actually carry firearms and are dabling in NFA.

 

You have no experience. You've never open carried in the east, and you've backpedaled to the point of saying you saw one store with a no guns sign, the name of which you can't remember.

 

You are afraid to open carry. That is fine. Many people are not comfortable with it, or simply make a decision to choose not to. You have gone father than that. You are afraid of of it, think bad things will happen, and have established a confirmation bias to the point where you think any story you see anywhere proves people who OC in the east (no different than where you are) must be harassed on a regular basis and ignore overwhelming evidence that people in the east (or where you live) OC every day for years on end and never have any problems, and the overwhelming evidence that this is the rule and not the exception.

 

BTW, I am ALSO not trying to convince anybody to OC vs. CC. You are simply giving very bad information and scaring people. I think people should know what they can expect - it's sure as hell nothing like what you say.

 

I have already said in this very thread that if it would be a disaster to be asked to leave a store or spend a night in jail(1*) and be exonerated than don't do it. The difference between you and me is, you are suggesting to people that there is reasonable chance it will happen. Based on absolutely zero experience, while I have at least 60 years experience between me and my friends up and down the Eastern border of PA that have have no real problems.

 

I am concerned that you are misleading people. If you want to be paranoid yourself, I don't think that's as big of an issue since you don't want to OC anyway. But there are a lot of people on this board that have no option other than OC in PA and you are horribly misrepresenting the likelihood of any risks with no personal or even second-hand experience whatsoever. So I want to try to balance that.

 

(1*) - Footnote - I have have never in my life heard of any person spending a night in jail for legal carry of any sort in PA. But I threw it out earlier in this thread as I guess a worst case possibility.

 

 

while there is no law saying they can ask you to leave for carrying it is my understanding that they can (as you said ask you to leave for anything)... and in some instances do.. and then you must comply... and sure they can ask you to leave for any reason.. but I would say it is more likely that they might ask you to leave over a gun than over a hat they dont like... but again maybe I am wrong... 

 

granted I did not read the whole 10+ pages.. because to be honest I am not that active on the forum.. but the first couple pages went something about asking for the individuals license to carry as a condition for staying in the store.... when he called corporate they stated that the manager could do that.. 

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/246229-kicked-out-home-depot-corporate-policy-change.html

 

and in all fairness I have stated numerous times that I have had MANY positive experiences carrying in PA... I have been to several concerts (in Philly of all places) and they allowed me to unload and secure the firearm... they never once gave me a hard time.. or made me feel as if I could not bring a gun.. You are honestly looking for an argument thats not there... the reason I am not so well versed on PA law is because its simpler... and pretty easy to follow...

 

and sure I don't have six years of carrying in PA.. only 3.. and as I have stated numerous times.. I have never had a single bad experience... but if you are a NJ resident coming to PA.. open carrying.. you just need to be aware that some places may ask you to leave.. or deny you entry.. that is a fact... and you may not want to leave your gun in the car while doing business with them... I do not personally like to leave my gun secured in the vehicle on the very off chance that the car is broken into (I drive a hatch back with no real trunk)....  so just know that when you are out shopping with your wife at the mall in PA and you are approached by a concerned rent a cop... you may be forced to put your gun in the car for the hour or two while you are at the mall.. and they can do that.. my comment about the eastern border of the state was made based on the mindset of the people living there, and from what I read on the forum.. which is why I stated it was "my understanding" and not fact... but your point is valid.. the interactions I read about that are a problem ARE very similar to the complaints department of a business..so it is probably fact that there are a million instances of no problem open carry for every one instance of bad.. 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I've open carried in Delaware and pa with no problems.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I am concerned that you are misleading people. If you want to be paranoid yourself, I don't think that's as big of an issue since you don't want to OC anyway. But there are a lot of people on this board that have no option other than OC in PA and you are horribly misrepresenting the likelihood of any risks with no personal or even second-hand experience whatsoever. So I want to try to balance that.

 

 

 

I get that.. and its totally valid... I am NOT saying you are going to go to jail over legal open carry... I am NOT saying that the police are going to shoot you down in the street for it.. All I am saying is there is a possibility where it could create an inconvenience.. "the worst possible situation"... I dont even expect that you would ever be locked up for lawful open carry.. I am sure the situation would deescalate quickly... "sir we have a no firearms policy as noted at the entrance of the mall... I am going to need you to leave" "OK sorry about that I did not see the sign" "OK thank you have a nice day" normally the "bad" experiences come from people that are out to prove something.. not people that are "just carrying".. the "bad" situations are normally escalations from people on a mission to prove something...  

[Sota 1,191]

I have a question...

Since we NJ residents are now forced to OC due to the AG's actions... what IS the proper protocol with regards to private property and a request to "cover or leave." If I were requested by, say Home Depot, to "cover or leave" can I cover up while in the store and on their private property, or do I have no other choice than to leave since I cannot legally conceal carry.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have a question...Since we NJ residents are now forced to OC due to the AG's actions... what IS the proper protocol with regards to private property and a request to "cover or leave." If I were requested by, say Home Depot, to "cover or leave" can I cover up while in the store and on their private property, or do I have no other choice than to leave since I cannot legally conceal carry.

I will defer to mipafox but my assumption ( which could be wrong) is your options would be limited to leaving since you can not conceal carry... But again could be wrong...

[Sota 1,191]

I think I found the answer here...

 

In Pennsylvania, you can carry a handgun concealed

on or about your person, without a license, only in

your abode, fixed place of business, and private

property in which you have permission.

Ref: 18 PACS §6106

 

So in my scenario...

A representative of Home Depot (private property) asked me to "cover up" (conceal) my openly carried firearm, even though I do not possess a PA recognized LTCF. I am not violating the Open Carry statute in that case if I do conceal at that point (while on their property!), as I'm taking as assumption the request to "cover up" as implicit permission to conceal on private property since I am not being asked to leave.

 

At least that's how I read it. I guess to be thorough and strict I could explicitly ask for permission to conceal if requested to "cover up", but it seems to me to be reasonable to assume such permission is given if I've been asked to cover up and NOT asked to leave.

 

Now here's the corollary to that... Can I automatically conceal upon entering private property with the assumption I will be asked to do so? Or do I need to wait for instruction.

[vladtepes 1,060]

It looks like you are right... If you are directly given permission to do so you can conceal per what you stated...

 

With that said you can not assume you will be given permission to conceal... Based on what I read there it sounds like the permission must be clearly granted and not assumed..

[Sota 1,191]

Agreed. I almost wish places had signs that said "please conceal your firearms." Almost.

 

I'll have to contemplate how interactions in places like chipotle (and any other that might follow) could be steered for mutual benefit.