Excellent Article on Current Gun Control Debate...

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

If you're not familiar with this writer, he's one of the better thinkers/writers over at National Review Online (in my humble opinion anyway). He's very erudite... and yet pragmatic at the same time. In this article, he makes compelling points about the systemic breaks in our criminal justice system, and how that blame is laid at the feet of legal gun owners (improperly and against all credible evidence). Link is here: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436570/orlando-shooting-gun-policy-aftermath

 

It's certainly a good read if you have a few minutes... Enjoy!

[silverado427 10,760]

Nice to hear the truth once in a while, However the libatarts will have no part of this rational thinking.  

[T Bill 649]

T Y. Power is multiplied by the use of selected enforcement.  We have let this happen.  Time to turn the page.

[cranky127 0]

This article is simplistic an just as wrong as the gun grabers arguement. Blame someone or something other than the cause. I nor anyone I know has been interviewed by the FBI 3 times, place him on the terror watch list. The watch list needs some type of judicial review so if some one is placed on it they can appeal. If you are on the list you fail the NICS check, just like DV prove it's not you then you are removed. JMHO

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Cranky: No easy answers to any of this, I guess. But, you nailed one problem - there IS no "due process" for an innocent person on the Watch List (and there are many) to get their name removed. Even the ACLU hates the list for that reason. As long as there's no due process on some nebulous, ever-expanding and highly inaccurate government list, you can't strip away people's rights IMO.

 

The other uncomfortable fact though is that you can't eradicate all risks either. Free societies have to accept some risk. I realize that's of NO comfort to the loved ones of the poor slaughtered victims. An awful crime, for sure.

[JimB1 555]

I am very wary of super secret government lists being used to deny people rights. The ACLU is absolutely right that it is something that should not be allowed. However, if a person is on a terrorist watch list, there needs to be some flags that go off when it hits the NICS system. Not necessarily to stop the sale but to let the FBI or local law enforcement know the event has occurred and to be aware. At that point, they can get a judge to issue an order so they can watch the suspect more closely. All this is perfectly legal (as long as we are talking about a simple compare between databases and not adding the watch list to the NICS database) and follows the regular processes that law enforcement does every day for other suspected law breakers. They could be doing it today without any new laws being written or any political football to deal with.

 

NICS check comes in, identifying info goes to the FBI and NICS. NICS sends back yes or no, FBI compares to the watch list and sends alert if match is found. Done!

 

Of course this is very focused on terrorist watch lists which is still a tiny minority of the illegal gun uses in the country but you have to start somewhere and this really isn't rocket science. They are making it much more difficult then it needs to be for political purposes and that is the sad part.

 

JMHO

-Jim

[jeff47 30]

A good friend of mine is on the no fly list, he's not really sure why and has no way to get off. He always has to be at the airport at least 4 hours early so that he can convince them he's not an IRA terrorist or something. Hilariously, he's LE.

[mikeyjones 88]

A good friend of mine is on the no fly list, he's not really sure why and has no way to get off. He always has to be at the airport at least 4 hours early so that he can convince them he's not an IRA terrorist or something. Hilariously, he's LE.

 

 

There are avenues to try to get yourself removed, but they don't always work and can be time-consuming.

[Malsua 1,422]

"No Fly, No Buy" will probably get passed in this climate.  It's totally against our established legal precedents and will not withstand court scrutiny.

 

That said, it'll probably happen.

 

How many trigger it?  A handful?  Possibly.  Of those, how many stops will prevent a mass shooting?  None.

 

Anyone who is stopped by No Fly, No buy, will simply buy elsewhere.    In fact, a terrorist will likely not try to buy legit since they know of No fly, no buy.

 

What should happen is when someone on the No Fly list gets a NICS check, it should hold the transaction and light up on a real person's computer in the FBI to be followed up within 24 hours.

[mikeyjones 88]

What should happen is when someone on the No Fly list gets a NICS check, it should hold the transaction and light up on a real person's computer in the FBI to be followed up within 24 hours.

 

 

That's actually part of the latest proposal.

[PeteF 1,044]

How about some one thats being investigated by the FBI for criminal actions? Someone that was previously years investigated for other criminal actions?

 

That person wants nuclear launch codes, but thinks someone who just happens to be on a list, should not be allowed to purchase firearms.

 

Hows about NO!!!!!

 

Watch list? Fuck that. You got some proof of wrong doing, arrest them. You got a suspicion or a feeling? Get some proof, then go back to step 1. Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

 

Welcome to liberty.

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

Pretty smart fella said this a few hundred years ago.

[Malsua 1,422]

That's actually part of the latest proposal.

 

Well, there ya go.  I'll support it then.    Just pumping out a denial is useless.    If it is not investigated within 3 days, it should default proceed or if the no-fly list is found to be in error or an investigation bears no fruit, it should proceed.

 

If existence on the list proscribes owning of a gun, then I'm against it because there is no due process, nor is there any way to get off the damn list if you're on it because your name is similar to a terrorist.

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Thanks for all of your very interesting comments.

 

I was suprised (shocked?) to see a writer at HuffPo - of all places - touting the importance of "due process" and actually aligning with the NRA on that point.  Link here:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-gun-control_us_575f08ece4b071ec19eebbdf

 

Will wonders never cease? Politics really does make strange bedfellows. Enjoy the day....

[JimB1 555]

Thanks for all of your very interesting comments.

 

I was suprised (shocked?) to see a writer at HuffPo - of all places - touting the importance of "due process" and actually aligning with the NRA on that point.  Link here:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-gun-control_us_575f08ece4b071ec19eebbdf

 

Will wonders never cease? Politics really does make strange bedfellows. Enjoy the day....

 

Well, the ACLU has been fighting the Terrorist watch list for at least 5 years and some Dems are actually middle of the road politically. We usually just hear about the far left because they are very vocal.

Huff Post does occasionally align to the middle on some items (granted few and far between but even a broken watch is right twice a day).

 

-Jim