OldCrow

It wasn't intended to be an argument in favor of mandatory training, more just thinking out loud about what other approaches could be tried.

No, not gladly, and especially not in this state, where a substantial portion of the population and legislature views all guns and gun owners as inherently evil. I get it - any additional requirement will be used to make gun ownership more difficult. But every time some fumb duck leaves a loaded rifle where his 4-year-old can get a hold of it is a setback for us that encourages that attitude. It's already against the law to leave a gun where a minor can access it, and there are signs to that effect in every gun shop in the state. Most guns come with with locks - I think that's required in NJ, but it still happens. So is there anything what can we in the gun community do to reduce the number of such incidents? When I go out with a new shooter, I always tell them the same thing. "Who cares if you hit the target as long as you have some fun and do it safely." My wife has no interest in shooting at all, but she knows the three rules. Is there more than that that we can do?

No, you can't fix stupid. But maybe you can screen for it, and keep the truly hopeless from gaining possession of a tool they can't use responsibly. How many of you have had a newbie sweep you with loaded weapon? How many articles have you seen where somebody leaves a loaded gun where their kid can access it and tragedy results? Would mandatory training help? I don't know. Maybe it'd prevent a few deaths - probably not many - many stupid people can maintan focus for 4 hours but not a lifetime. How many is enough to make it worth it? I've become as cynical as all the rest of you and understand that any new restriction or regulation will be used to limit the freedoms of all in this state, the trained and responsible along with the idiots, So my biggest questions to you all is, if legislation like this isn't an answer, is there one? Or are the deaths and injuries of innocents that result when people who are too stupid to secure their firearms so their kids can't get them the price we pay for living in a "free" society ("free" being a relative term in PRNJ)?

I want a 1000-round revolver with a flash hider and bayonet! Might be a little heavy though.

I went to a "gun control meeting" in my town shortly after Newtown. Much the same. The big things were they wanted to ban assault weapons, concealed carry in our town, and hi-cap magazines - completely unaware that NJ already had such restrictions (or defacto restrictions in the case of CC). Most of the antis aren't freedom haters - just uninformed violence/crime haters - and by and large, all good people trying to do what they see as the moral thing. I'm not justifying their views, just saying they're mostly not the devious, treasonous types portrayed by the more rabid pro-gun forces. Though they are susceptible to being used by such people.

My knowledge of NY state law is pretty limited, coming only from discussions with a co-worker who has a NY CCW. My understanding is that the only way you can own a handgun in NY is to get a permit - so everyone in NY with a handgun technically has a permit. The difference is that almost all of these "permits" have restrictions: premises only, target/hunting, etc. I could be really wrong on this, but I don't think so. So yes, it's "easy" to get a permit, but in most cases you still can't "carry" as most people understand the term.

When I went for my FID and initial P2P about 2 years ago, the secretary at Highland Park PD looked at my form and said my references had to live in NJ. I told her one of them was my boss and the other a co-worker I'd known 10 years. She went to check with the detectives and came back to say everything was fine. Three subsequent sets of P2P were processed with out-of-state references. BTW, everything I've ever done through Highland Park PD was processed in less than 30 days - longest was 28.HPPD is awesome.

A question. I see a lot of people who think this bill will effectively ban online sale of ammunition. Why do we think this will happen when the bill contains specific provisions to allow it? I understand, and am not happy about, the registration angle, but it is seems to me that the fear of an online sale ban is overblown. See below: 10 (2) On or before the first day of the tenth month following 11 enactment, the superintendent shall develop a program for the electronic reporting by dealers, on a real-time basis, of all 1Internet1 12 13 rifle and shotgun ammunition sales and transfers, and information 14 relating to each such sale and transfer. The reported information 15 shall include the name, age, address, type of firearms identifier 16 exhibited or possessed by the purchaser or transferee, the caliber 17 and numerical amount of ammunition sold or transferred in the 18 transaction, the date of the transaction, and such other information 19 as the superintendent shall deem necessary for the proper 20 enforcement of this section. The superintendent shall establish an 21 electronic data base containing all such reported information, which 22 shall be available to all law enforcement officers on a real-time 23 basis. The superintendent shall establish security procedures to 24 protect the confidentiality of the information contained in this data 25 base, which shall preclude access to the information to any person 26 not lawfully entitled to it. For the purposes of P.L.1963, c.73 27 (C.47:1A-1 et seq.), the information contained in the data base 28 established pursuant to this subsection shall not be deemed a 29 government record. Similar provisions for handgun ammo appear later in the bill.

All "money" shots...

Call me a Neanderthal, but I've never had a Facebook page. The folks in my family that do are always getting their knickers in a twist about something somebody posted. If I want to "connect" with someone, I'll pick up the phone. FB seems like a time-suck that causes more problems than it's worth.

^ This is me to a T.

For what it's worth, my local PD (Highland Park) has processed two sets of permits for me. One was with my initial FID and took 25 days. The other was two permits and it took 28 days. Both were pre-Newtown. I had to work around their scheduled for submission of paperwork, but that wasn't onerous and there was absolutely no BS. Very professional and helpful.

I didn't price it, as I don't have anything to shoot it in. But as far as I can tell Dicks is still selling ammo at pre-panic prices when they have it in stock.

As of an hour ago, Dicks at Woodbridge mall had Winchester Match .223 (about 30 boxes on shelf) and a few boxes of Hornady .223.

Everyday: Jack Daniel's or Wild Turkey Special occasion: Macallan 18

I don't know that that's true. There's such a huge variety. Unless you flat out don't like whiskey, there's probably a Scotch out there you could enjoy.

You said it better than I did.

Alright - I know I'm setting myself up for a world of crap, but here goes: Just because something is true doesn't mean it's helpful. Frankly, I think we did our selves more harm than good yesterday. Calling politicians "oath breakers" to their face in a public forum is not going to win them to your cause. Funny costumes and talking about protecting our country from tyranny the other side doesn't believe could ever exist doesn't convince them - just confirms their opinion that we're all paranoid nut balls. Talking about how we won't comply with any new laws does not promote the image of a law abiding citizen who can be trusted with a firearm. And my single biggest complaint: Shouting down the opposition and attempting to intimidate them does not promote the image of rational, non-threatening gun owner - It just makes us scary people to be feared, and that shouldn't have a gun. Passion for the cause is a wonderful thing, but I wish everyone would think about how to communicate with the other side. Slogans that get us fired up won't get through to them, even if their true - they just don't see the world the same way. Rational arguments, presented in a calm, factual manner might have a chance with people of good will. The theatrics just burn up whatever good will might exist. I've said my peace...feel free to fire away.

+1

I know the original post was over the top, and I understand supply and demand. I've got no problem with folks who are willing to over-pay for ammo so they'll have something to shoot. I've go no problem with folks who choose not to pay inflated prices. I do resent the folks who buy up ammo hoping to re-sell at a profit. Yeah, they're just being good capitalists - they're still a-holes.

Heck! At this point I'd (happily) settle for golden bullet.

I was thinking the same thing. And it comes with 2 magazines and adjustable back straps to fit almost any hand size.

So all who are able, be in Trenton on 5/11 for the NJ2AS rally. I hope I see you there.

Only if we keep working. If we get complacent, we'll live to regret it.

I'm registered, and I'll go no matter what, but the registration numbers are disheartening thus far. I know you've all been hitting this hard since February, but I hope you've still got a little left in the tank. After the win today at the Federal level, I'd really like to see us keep momentum and roll these clowns in Trenton.