Just posted by the judge Bumb

[leo-польд 35]

 

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstorage.courtlistener.com%2Frecap%2Fgov.uscourts.njd.506033%2Fgov.uscourts.njd.506033.51.0.pdf%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3nTnb9VldE3xgqJlkihu1VcM8TqiA14JdtGDXjD4VHjtM_1Kb-ZZDyco4&h=AT2ewspltqEyHSijSKqPyOIIS0712XfHm0Ao56BtWkOVbFbTVRWTwlNfWPQSXc09Mcss75rc2ejQNLoTqKXvE31gEUfeYTZHaUGWk5pqNnTeArSzVPTPHR2mHm3F2at4jtVU7EawlA&__tn__=-UK-y-R&c[0]=AT363y-f1E9XsaoxxA_QR1w8_eQkJcy-MxTOf6C_3PGng-Tn3w2-f58exEUgAewcBU8WrtT_HGBvVwVqkKqRYMEmRSdwiCDjyoMOU8a1D7jBslpJ5UdZOCXGI4pzyDBkoeQj-zIUHL4xXU4_sVcW7dlOSDec3tvkvJBioyHgUXLgNmKDPKiAQWoeFXBvRy4

[silverado427 10,731]

so what is the outcome.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I’m still reading it, but here is a non-Facebook link if anyone needs it:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.51.0.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3nTnb9VldE3xgqJlkihu1VcM8TqiA14JdtGDXjD4VHjtM_1Kb-ZZDyco4

[leo-польд 35]

2 hours ago, silverado427 said:

so what is the outcome.

Judge extended TRO, it was just 14 initially

[CMJeepster 2,778]

 

[Zelig 21]

Judge Bumb's Landmark NJ decision is a breath of fresh air.  My issue still remains.  Judge was OK with the training requirements but  there was a lack of knowledge on disparity of training in  the state which is being exploited by some. You can obtain a training certificate for the court if you meet the standard for retired LEOs. This maybe reasonable and is the same that Florida used until recently. However most FFL Ranges see this as an economic windfall and are gouging in the name of "gun safety".  They require many hours of training.    Others but very few just use the standard for a retired LEO, hit the paper a reasonable amount of times from a single standing position and lighting. See bolded text below:

 No holster needed COST=$150
– Shoot from the ready position
– 50 rounds per firearm
– FBI Q target
– 24 rounds at 7 yards
– 14 rounds at 10 yards
– 6 rounds at 15 yards
– 6 rounds at 25 yards
For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%) 

At the other end of the spectrum we have extensive training. On the surface you will need four 3 hour classes at $99 per class, that's only $396 BUT WITH MANY PREREQUISITES like college. Advanced Training which is three 3 hour classes at $99 again or another $297.  You are NOT done plus two more prerequisites, one for Holster Draw and one for Intermediate Training each 3 two hour classes each at $99.  So another $198 plus $198= 396.  The total is around $1,100 dollars PLUS 3 hour test=$1,200 GRAND TOTAL

We have many states that are Constitutional Carry which is the true spirit of the 2A. Also if  we want to keep felons from having firearms the problem remains our system does little to prevent it.  

[Krdshrk 3,877]

5 minutes ago, Zelig said:

Judge was OK with the training requirements but  there was a lack of knowledge on disparity of training in  the state which is being exploited by some.

She didn't say that at all - she said she flags the possibility that shall issue statutory laws because permitting schemes can be put towards abusive ends.  She also put the burden on the state government to come forth with the historical tradition of gun regulations that justify putting restrictions on our right to carry.  This is HUGE.  The Shall Issue Permitting laws need to be looked at in a case-by-case basis.  That puts it out there that NJ's requirements are potentially unconstitutional.

While we have some unclassified an restrictive policies put on us to obtain our CCW - it could be worse - look at NY.  Bumb is specifically putting out her opinion on this to prevent that from happening here in NJ... And potentially making it even easier for us.  It's just going to take time.  Keep the faith.

Yes - ranges are using this as an economic windfall - good for them.  Capitalism.  It's up to you to find alternative methods on how to get qualified.  

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

45 minutes ago, Zelig said:

Others but very few just use the standard for a retired LEO, hit the paper a reasonable amount of times from a single standing position and lighting. See bolded text below:

 No holster needed COST=$150
– Shoot from the ready position
– 50 rounds per firearm
– FBI Q target
– 24 rounds at 7 yards
– 14 rounds at 10 yards
– 6 rounds at 15 yards
– 6 rounds at 25 yards
For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%) 

As someone approved by NJSP to run RPO qualifications, I can say with certainty that is not the course of fire for RPO. HQC1 or HQC2 plus HNQC are the required CoF for RPO.

[Zelig 21]

3 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

She didn't say that at all - she said she flags the possibility that shall issue statutory laws because permitting schemes can be put towards abusive ends.  She also put the burden on the state government to come forth with the historical tradition of gun regulations that justify putting restrictions on our right to carry.  This is HUGE.  The Shall Issue Permitting laws need to be looked at in a case-by-case basis.  That puts it out there that NJ's requirements are potentially unconstitutional.

While we have some unclassified an restrictive policies put on us to obtain our CCW - it could be worse - look at NY.  Bumb is specifically putting out her opinion on this to prevent that from happening here in NJ... And potentially making it even easier for us.  It's just going to take time.  Keep the faith.

Yes - ranges are using this as an economic windfall - good for them.  Capitalism.  It's up to you to find alternative methods on how to get qualified.  

I stand corrected and appreciate having to read the document which should have been done beforehand.  The Press initially incorrectly reported it this way.  It is great that she left it open that way. The Injunction was informative and not hard to read after all...

[Tunaman 552]

10 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

As someone approved by NJSP to run RPO qualifications, I can say with certainty that is not the course of fire for RPO. HQC1 or HQC2 plus HNQC are the required CoF for RPO.

We are not retired LEO and should not have to qualify as such.  GFH has been qualifying retired LEO and others for a long time using these requirements and all have have passed superior court muster.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, Tunaman said:

We are not retired LEO and should not have to qualify as such.  GFH has been qualifying retired LEO and others for a long time using these requirements and all have have passed superior court muster.

I didn't say anything about what a non-LEO/non-RPO person should be required to do.

Why do you think GFH has been qualifying RPO using this 50 round CoF? On their calendar they state:

What Police Officers Need to Bring:

• Your own firearm
• 100 rounds of factory ammo
• Holster
• 2 magazines or speed loaders
• Eye and ear protection

If GFH was using a same simplified CoF that is used for regular PCH to qualify RPO, why would they need to bring 100 rounds, a holster and 2 magazines?

Maybe it is because HQC2 and HNQC are 50 rounds each and require drawing from a holster and mandatory reloads within stipulated time constraints.

[Tunaman 552]

All I am trying to say is you can get qualified for 150 dollars,  which gets you the same PTC as retired Leo and you dont have to spend all that money to do so.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

8 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

All I am trying to say is you can get qualified for 150 dollars,  which gets you the same PTC as retired Leo and you dont have to spend all that money to do so.

That is mistaken on several levels.

You can get qualified for much less than $150. I charge to run people through quals, but nowhere near that much.

A regular PCH is not the same as an RPO permit.

RPO are much less constrained than us regular folk. They have a less onerous magazine restriction, they can carry in the so-called sensitive places, but they have to requalify every 6 months using HQC1/2 and HNQC.

Us regular folk only have to complete whatever simplified CoF the qualifying instructor believes is necessary for him/her to assess the candidate's safe gun handling and we only have to do it once every 2 years, but we're stuck with 10 round mags and NJ hates us.

[High Exposure 5,664]

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

Maybe it is because HQC2 and HNQC are 50 rounds each

Point of order:

HQC1: 60 rounds
HQC2: 50 rounds
HNQC: 40 rounds

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on.