NYC to Morris County

[bulpup 98]

Hi,

 

I am new to the boards here and I have been doing a lot of reading of the forum. I think I am getting my head around the issues of owning a handgun in NJ but I really am not hearing any definitive answers or my particular situaton.

 

I have a current valid NYC premise permit and own a single hangun with 2 boxes of hollow points of the same make and model that the Nassau County NY PD uses (Speer Gold Dot).

 

I called the municipality PD that I am planning on moving to and asked what I needed to do to be legal. Now, my expectations of the process are based on what I had to do to get the permit in NYC so I guess I confused the guy.

 

Here is what I think I am getting out of all this, please correct me if any of this is wrong.

 

-Transportation to my new residence has to be done as prescribed by NJ (in a box, trigger lock, no ammo).

-I do not need to register the handgun. The detective told me that my registration in NYC is registration enough.

 

 

Here is what I don't get. He made it sound like I didn't have to do anything at all other than bring it to my new house. I started asking for clarification and he thought I was talking about surrendering it to the police. Very odd, so I cut my losses and ended the call.

 

So here are the questions I wanted answers to before it got weird.

 

-Once in NJ and living at my new place, do I have to get this FID? This forum makes it sound like I need an FID to get ammo or purcahse new new handgun. I don't care for a new firearm at the moment, what with the move and all.

 

-what do I need to shoot at a target range as far as ID goes?

 

-Should I just let the NYC permit expire? I guess I have to but it seems like following the advice of the PD (not doing anything) means that once the NYC permt expires then I have absolutely no permit at all. This seems weird to me. I know NYC is very restrictive, but NO permit for premise in NJ? Really? I need clarification.

I know I need to apply for this FID for a new pistol, but I don't need or want another one yet. At least not for a while.

[kenw 293]

Welcome to the monkey house.

 

If you move to NJ from a state where you legally owned firearms, you're good to go. NJ doesn't require explicit registration of guns (yet).

 

In NJ, you're required to present your FPID card to purchase handgun ammo, and some stores are asking for it for other ammo as well. Law requires handgun ammo purchases to be logged in to a ledger for periodic inspections. You may purchase any NJ compliant ammo (including HP) out of state and legally transport it back.

 

You need a FPID to purchase any long gun in NJ, but it is legal to purchase a NJ compliant long gun out of state and transport it back to NJ.

 

You need a Handgun Purchase Permit to purchase any handgun in NJ. I believe that in order to get the permit, you must have an FPID with your name and address. Handguns may only be transferred legally by a NJ FFL. Face to Face transfers of handguns are not legal. Not so for long guns.

 

None of the ranges I've been to require any documentation at all. It may vary at other locations.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ken

 

ETA:

Since you'll probably be changing your address, it would almost certainly be illegal for you to attempt renewal of your NY permits. I'm sure only residents of NY may have a valid NY permit.

[Malsua 1,422]

There is no licensing or permits required for owning a gun in NJ. Move here, don't worry, be happy, you are 100% legal.

 

Hollow points are fine as long as you don't use them in a crime.

 

Some ranges required a Firearm Purchaser ID before they allow you to shoot(Bullet Hole), some do not(Cherry Ridge for example).

 

You are only allowed to transport your firearm to/from Range/Gunshop/Home/Hunting/Your Business(that you own). Since you can't hunt with hanguns in NJ, that one is out in your instance.

 

Transport laws must be followed. In the trunk/back of SUV, separate from the ammo.

 

You will not be able to buy ammo for your handgun without a FPID. You can buy it from online retailers, some require FPID, some do not.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Hi,

 

I am new to the boards here and I have been doing a lot of reading of the forum. I think I am getting my head around the issues of owning a handgun in NJ but I really am not hearing any definitive answers or my particular situaton.

 

I have a current valid NYC premise permit and own a single hangun with 2 boxes of hollow points of the same make and model that the Nassau County NY PD uses (Speer Gold Dot).

 

I called the municipality PD that I am planning on moving to and asked what I needed to do to be legal. Now, my expectations of the process are based on what I had to do to get the permit in NYC so I guess I confused the guy.

 

Here is what I think I am getting out of all this, please correct me if any of this is wrong.

 

-Transportation to my new residence has to be done as prescribed by NJ (in a box, trigger lock, no ammo).

Correct, Unloaded, Locked and/or immediately inaccessible to driver (ie, in the trunk)

 

-I do not need to register the handgun. The detective told me that my registration in NYC is registration enough.

Correct, all registration in NJ is strictly voluntary. ( I don't know why any one would). The gun is your property.

 

 

Here is what I don't get. He made it sound like I didn't have to do anything at all other than bring it to my new house.

Correct, it's your property, just like your TV and Toaster Oven Are.

 

I started asking for clarification and he thought I was talking about surrendering it to the police. Very odd, so I cut my losses and ended the call.

 

So here are the questions I wanted answers to before it got weird.

 

-Once in NJ and living at my new place, do I have to get this FID? This forum makes it sound like I need an FID to get ammo or purcahse new new handgun. I don't care for a new firearm at the moment, what with the move and all.

You do not HAVE to get a FID, however, it is probably a good idea if you plan on staying here. You need a FID to buy handgun ammo at a retailer in NJ. However, you can buy mail-order with just your license, or you can go to a Wal-mart in PA and put it in your shopping cart next to your baby formula and underwear. If in the future, you wish to buy another handgun, you would have to go to the police department and apply for a pistol purchase permit (1 per handgun, only valid for 90 days)

 

 

-what do I need to shoot at a target range as far as ID goes?

Driver's license.. if that..

 

 

-Should I just let the NYC permit expire? NYC permit does absolutely nothing in NJ

 

I guess I have to but it seems like following the advice of the PD (not doing anything) means that once the NYC permt expires then I have absolutely no permit at all. This seems weird to me. I know NYC is very restrictive, but NO permit for premise in NJ? Really? I need clarification.

Your house is your domain, you can carry your loaded pistol on your hip all day long on your own property (Aside from scaring the neighbors).

 

The only pistol permits in NJ are for purchase. (and the non-existent Concealed carry). The gun is already purchased and is your property, so you do not need a NJ permit.

 

 

I know I need to apply for this FID for a new pistol, but I don't need or want another one yet. At least not for a while.Actually, you would need to apply for a Pistol Purchase Permit. You need a Pistol Purchase Permit for every handgun you wish to buy. These are only good for 90 days from the date of issue, the PD can opt to extend it for an additional 90 days. The Firearms Purchaser Identification card is for long guns. The FPID is good for life. Most people get both, the FPID and the Pistol Purchase Permit at the same time to save a few dollars and avoid additional wait times.

 

Welcome to NJ! I guess it's a step better than NYC.

[Malsua 1,422]

Couple minor nits Ken.

 

 

You need a FPID to purchase any long gun in NJ, but it is legal to purchase a NJ compliant long gun out of state and transport it back to NJ.

 

To legally purchase a long gun in ANY state, as a NJ resident you are required to have an FID. You may get away with it in a distant state but they won't be legally adhering to NJ laws.

 

Handguns may only be transferred legally by a NJ FFL. Face to Face transfers of handguns are not legal.

 

That's not true. You may transfer handguns with the proper pistol permits and copies forwarded to the police. Also, technically, a FPID is only for long guns and you can get a pistol permit without getting a FPID. The process is however identical and dealers will require it. So that's a minor nit.

 

[djg0770 481]

Handguns may only be transferred legally by a NJ FFL. Face to Face transfers of handguns are not legal.

 

Ken - I don't believe this is quite accurate. You can do an FTF of handguns within the state as long as the purchaser has an NJ pistol permit. Gun show handgun purchases must go to an FFL...

[coldsolderjoint 84]

I'm sorry KenW, I have to correct you on a few points.

 

Welcome to the monkey house.

 

If you move to NJ from a state where you legally owned firearms, you're good to go. NJ doesn't require explicit registration of guns (yet).

 

In NJ, you're required to present your FPID card to purchase handgun ammo, and some stores are asking for it for other ammo as well. Law requires handgun ammo purchases to be logged in to a ledger for periodic inspections. You may purchase any NJ compliant ammo (including HP) out of state and legally transport it back.

 

You need a FPID to purchase any long gun in NJ, but it is legal to purchase a NJ compliant long gun out of state and transport it back to NJ. This is an interstate commerce transaction and is regulated by the ATF. All laws of the Purchaser's and the Seller's state must be followed. So you WILL need a FPID Card, and the NJ Certificate of eligibility needs to be filled out when purchasing out of state.

 

You need a Handgun Purchase Permit to purchase any handgun in NJ. I believe that in order to get the permit, you must have an FPID with your name and address. Not True, you can apply for one or the other. In practice, it is stupid not to apply for both, but it is not required

 

Handguns may only be transferred legally by a NJ FFL. Face to Face transfers of handguns are not legal. Not so for long guns. This is not true. Face to face pistol sales are perfectly legal providing that the buyer has a pistol purchase permit and it is filled out and copies sent to the appropriate police departments. OUt of state pistol transactions must be transferred through a NJ FFL. Long guns, as you said, are also legal as long as the Certificate of eligibility is filled out.

 

None of the ranges I've been to require any documentation at all. It may vary at other locations.

+1

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ken

 

ETA:

Since you'll probably be changing your address, it would almost certainly be illegal for you to attempt renewal of your NY permits. I'm sure only residents of NY may have a valid NY permit.

[kenw 293]

My bad. I was typing faster than I was thinking. Not only do I stand corrected, but I saw the errors when I reread my post. Must slow down.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

-Transportation to my new residence has to be done as prescribed by NJ (in a box, trigger lock, no ammo).

Correct, Unloaded, Locked and/or immediately inaccessible to driver (ie, in the trunk)

.

 

One nit here about locks. Not required if in a trunk.

 

This is from NJSP

 

*

 

Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

*

 

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

[Chad 3]

Correct, locks are NOT reqired if inacessable to driver. I never use locks.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

 

-Transportation to my new residence has to be done as prescribed by NJ (in a box, trigger lock, no ammo).

Correct, Unloaded, Locked and/or immediately inaccessible to driver (ie, in the trunk)

.

 

One nit here about locks. Not required if in a trunk.

 

This is from NJSP

 

*

 

Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

*

 

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

 

Correct, I was trying not to Overload him with too much information about our back-asswards monkey system :oops: Sorry.. I could take out the word "and" and my statement would be fully correct

[kenw 293]

bulpup,

 

Welcome to the group.

 

There are helpful and knowledgeable folks here who are more than thrilled to answer any of your questions (small brain farts notwithstanding). Keep the questions coming.

 

Feel free to become an active participant on the forums and at the ranges. There are groups of us that shoot at a variety of the ranges in the state, and you're certainly more than welcome to join in any time you like.

[Malsua 1,422]

bulpup,

 

Welcome to the group.

 

There are helpful and knowledgeable folks here who are more than thrilled to answer any of your questions (small brain farts notwithstanding). Keep the questions coming.

 

Feel free to become an active participant on the forums and at the ranges. There are groups of us that shoot at a variety of the ranges in the state, and you're certainly more than welcome to join in any time you like.

 

+1

[bulpup 98]

:shock:

 

Good lord it cost me $375 every two years for that permit AND I had to bring any new handgun in to 1 Police Plaza for an inspection. I... I can't believe it could be so simple.

 

So as far as HP ammo and committing a crime, does it come down to "well he shot a guy in his own house but we don't think he was justified so therefore we are going to add the crime of using HP ammo" ? Or do home owners actually get to exercise their right to self defense?

 

 

Thanks for the welcome. I guess I will add an intro up there.

[Caine 147]

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

Quick question regarding this part since it came up: In an SUV, if the firearm is in a fastened case (i.e. zippered soft case or latched hard case) is an actual LOCK required for the container? Or is the zipper/latch/"whatever is used to close the case" adequate?

 

So as far as HP ammo and committing a crime, does it come down to "well he shot a guy in his own house but we don't think he was justified so therefore we are going to add the crime of using HP ammo" ? Or do home owners actually get to exercise their right to self defense?

NJ does not have a castle doctrine. From my understanding, the legality of shooting an intruder in your home seems to largely depend on just how life threatening the situation is. You can not, again, based on MY understanding, shoot an intruder to protect your property. You must be in imminent threat of death or seriously bodily injury to justifiably use lethal force in your home.

 

ETA: so, to more specifically answer your exact question: YES, a determination will be made as to whether the shooting was justifiably, and if it is demeaned to not be, then you will also incur an additional charge for the use of hollow points.

[Malsua 1,422]

So as far as HP ammo and committing a crime, does it come down to "well he shot a guy in his own house but we don't think he was justified so therefore we are going to add the crime of using HP ammo" ?

 

It has never been tested and it's not really an issue. It is however added on to the charges that criminals get when they hold up a liquor store. You can go to the range and use HP all your wish. I have a mag of federal Hydra-Shok JHP that sits next to my HK in the event of an intruder. I take FMJ rounds to the range simply because of the cost.

[Malsua 1,422]

Quick question regarding this part since it came up: In an SUV, if the firearm is in a fastened case (i.e. zippered soft case or latched hard case) is an actual LOCK required for the container? Or is the zipper/latch/"whatever is used to close the case" adequate?

 

That all depends on the definition of "accessible". If you are alone in an SUV, legally it could be argued that a firearm is inaccessible to the driver. If a passenger gets in, that would change. I would think that if you have a privacy cover that would be enough.

 

NJ does not have a castle doctrine. From my understanding, the legality of shooting an intruder in your home seems to largely depend on just how life threatening the situation is. You can not, again, based on MY understanding, shoot an intruder to protect your property. You must be in imminent threat of death or seriously bodily injury to justifiably use lethal force in your home.

 

NJ does in fact have a castle doctrine. It was one of the first(and weakest). It only indemnifies you INSIDE your home and if your life was threatened. Outside of your home you have a duty to retreat.

[Caine 147]

NJ does in fact have a castle doctrine. It was one of the first(and weakest). It only indemnifies you INSIDE your home and if your life was threatened. Outside of your home you have a duty to retreat.

Hmm - I did not know that about the castle doctrine. As usual, it appears I'm misinformed Thanks for the clarification.

[kenw 293]

:shock:

 

Good lord it cost me $375 every two years for that permit AND I had to bring any new handgun in to 1 Police Plaza for an inspection. I... I can't believe it could be so simple.

I think this one says it all.

[bulpup 98]

I think this one says it all.

 

 

LOL! Yes, quite nicely!

[ianargent 7]

I sat on a jury for an assault case a few years back and the defendant claimed self-defense. The judge instructed us that non-deadly force neither required proportionality nor incurred a duty to retreat; but that use of deadly force required both proportionality and incurred a duty to retreat. Now, this case was not in a home, so he may not have bothered to include any in-home exceptions.

 

(Knifing in a brawl in a bar parking lot, if it matters).

 

Wikipedia says "New Jersey ("Statutes" link in sidebar, see New Jersey Statutes 2C:3-4, retreat required outside home if actor knows he can avoid necessity of deadly force in complete safety, etc.)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doc ... ted_States)

 

I'm waiting for the njleg site to load the Statutes search engine so I can confirm - it seems to be down