Citizen Dissent

[rauchman 3]

Greetings all,

 

Was reading the following thread - http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=241607. Basically a WI resident decided to open carry his sidearm and was arrested for disorderly conduct. In one of the posts, someone mentioned putting together a protest march of open carrying gun owners to express their 2A rights.

 

This leads me to wonder if a protest of some type could be staged in Trenton. Last I heard there are roughly 8 million NJ residents and I'm guessing of them, 1 in 10 own firearms. So roughly 800,000 gun owners in NJ. Let's say even if 1 in 8 showed up, that's still 100,000 gun owners marching down the streets in Trenton. I would like to see Gov Corzines reaction to such a protest. Of course anyone participating in such an event would have to be there with the idea that this would be a peaceful protest and you would very likely be arrested and your firearm would likely be confiscated. God forbid, someone lets rounds fly.... that would be exceptionally bad.

 

I must say, the events of people showing up at the town hall meetings open carrying in NH, AL and AZ...and this gentleman in WI are inspiring. These people have cajones for standing up and expressing their 2A rights.

 

I've been giving serious thought to moving out of NJ. I lived here just about all my life and find it absolutely infuriating living with the existing laws that NJ has in place regarding firearms. I do it because I have to, but I do not like it one bit. I've come to the conclusion though that we will never see any changes to 2A rights in this state unless we are organized and publicly protest these infringements on our rights. I do not honestly expect to ever see "change" in this state on this issue, unless "we, the people" of NJ say something about it.

 

What do you think???

[tinyboy 1]

they would call in the national guard if 100k armed persons showed up to protest. Open carry is illegal, period. I doubt it would even get past 1k that would do it anyway

 

Now something like just wearing empty holsters is another thing.

[rauchman 3]

they would call in the national guard if 100k armed persons showed up to protest. Open carry is illegal, period. I doubt it would even get past 1k that would do it anyway

 

Now something like just wearing empty holsters is another thing.

 

Yes, you are right. On retrospect, I forgot about the fact that it's legal to open carry in NJ. I like the idea of the empty holsters though and I think it would send the intended message.

 

How does one organize the NJ Holster rally?

 

I've read on this site and have heard others, myself included, recite their frustration regarding NJ's guns laws. Let's do something about it!!! Disclaimer here..... Let's do something about it in a legal manner....

[rscalzo 3]

I forgot about the fact that it's legal to open carry in NJ.

 

I think you meant to say "illegal".

[rauchman 3]

I forgot about the fact that it's legal to open carry in NJ.

 

I think you meant to say "illegal".

 

Good catch!!!

[unclenunzie 3]

I forgot about the fact that it's legal to open carry in NJ.

 

I think you meant to say "illegal".

 

Is that right? I recall that NJ makes no distinction between concealed and open carry. Of course getting a permit to carry at all is a practical impossibility for the ordinary citizen. But if one has a carry permit, one could in theory carry openly?

[Guest]

went to protest in 1990 at state house in trenton protesting florio awb - several thousand well behaved protestors present - newspapers , radio , + tv reported that only a few hundred people were present - florio did not even come out of his office ! -

[GoNRA 12]

i'd show up with a holster, lol why not...

[kenw 293]

i'd show up with a holster, lol why not...

Because it's a meaningless and empty gesture that shows your acceptance of defeat. Like a eunuch showing up for the orgy. Foreplay with no chance of consummation.

[GoNRA 12]

your right, but it's better than going to jail... and just being there with a sign and a holster is better than not going at all...

[ronoverdrive 0]

I forgot about the fact that it's legal to open carry in NJ.

 

I think you meant to say "illegal".

 

Is that right? I recall that NJ makes no distinction between concealed and open carry. Of course getting a permit to carry at all is a practical impossibility for the ordinary citizen. But if one has a carry permit, one could in theory carry openly?

 

Yes I remember seeing something about this on OpenCarry.org. If you have the infamous NJ CCW you can open or conceal carry. But the only way you are getting a NJ carry permit is to either have a threat against your life (which you wouldn't be at a rally of any kind in that case), for your job (security guard or PI), or are a retired LEO. But the number of NJ CCW owners is literally a fraction of a percent with how hard it is to get it.

 

Face it, NJ Laws are in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. Honestly I don't think anyone would understand a empty holster protest. Maybe if we walked around with supersoakers or other obvious waterguns in place of guns it might get a message across to someone, but doubtful.

 

went to protest in 1990 at state house in trenton protesting florio awb - several thousand well behaved protestors present - newspapers , radio , + tv reported that only a few hundred people were present - florio did not even come out of his office ! -

 

Yeah media control is another thing. If all 800k people showed up the news would probably only report it as 800, BUT this is 2009 not 1990 so technology is in our favor. Blogs, YouTube, Twitter, etc. are independent free press outlets on the uncontrollable Internet. The more information we put out the better because you can't silence every website or media outlet imaginable on the net. Once its on the net it never goes away.

[rscalzo 3]

NJ carry permit

 

Retired LE do not apply for a NJ Carry permit. the Retired Carry Permit is a totally different process and a totally different set of requirements. In any case, since the LEOSA became law the NJ retired Carry permit is not needed except in the eyes of the NJ AG.

[GaTz 0]

It's COMPLETELY LEGAL to carry open in New Jersey

 

There is no distinction whatsoever...you'd only be letting everyone know you're carrying, which in itself, defeats the purpose of carrying....

 

You lose the element of surprise and you may actually be targeted first!

[tinyboy 1]

It's COMPLETELY LEGAL to carry open in New Jersey

 

There is no distinction whatsoever...you'd only be letting everyone know you're carrying, which in itself, defeats the purpose of carrying....

 

You lose the element of surprise and you may actually be targeted first!

 

yeah I think you better check that completely legal stuff...

[67gtonut 847]

It's COMPLETELY LEGAL to carry open in New Jersey

 

There is no distinction whatsoever...you'd only be letting everyone know you're carrying, which in itself, defeats the purpose of carrying....

 

You lose the element of surprise and you may actually be targeted first!

 

yeah I think you better check that completely legal stuff...

 

 

Yeah..... no way is Open Carry legal in this state

[djg0770 481]

http://www.usacarry.com/new_jersey_conc ... ation.html

 

Open Carry:

Prohibited in all public areas.

[rauchman 3]

i'd show up with a holster, lol why not...

Because it's a meaningless and empty gesture that shows your acceptance of defeat. Like a eunuch showing up for the orgy. Foreplay with no chance of consummation.

 

I'm curious as to what you would suggest then?

[kenw 293]

I don't really know what's effective any more. I regularly write and call regarding pending legislation, but in NJ, our voice is just too small to be heard over the din of the "gun control" groups who have the edge as far as organization and numbers are concerned. I think we need a more committed effort by those who represent our side of the argument, but they all seem to have been beaten down by the weight of the opposition, and by their perceived lack of commitment by those they represent.

 

I've said it before. I think we, as a group, need a single, strong voice to represent us to the lawmakers and policy shapers. Right now, there are too many opinions, too many conflicting priorities, and too many small groups lobbying for their own agendas. We're not organized, we're not focused, and we don't have a plan that everyone can get behind. We have "firearms professionals" threatening to shoot up Washington, we have "OGAM isn't too bad" fence-sitters, we have a kind of passive group telling us what happens, but doing nothing substantive to prevent it, but we have no singular voice. Fighting the antis has been an outstanding failure... they have a single face for their effort (Bryan Miller), they have the media, they have the government, and they have the resources. We have none of that, and we're pissing in the wind because of it.

 

I wish I had a solution, but I think we need to stop fighting the antis long enough to show those undecided masses that citizens with firearms aren't a bloodthirsty mob, and that we're just trying to preserve a tradition that goes back to the birth of America, and that isn't a threat to anyone other than the growing group of emboldened sociopaths who would use violence to deny us, and them, of our freedom to feel safe in our homes and on our streets. Getting people into the shooting sports is one way, education is one way, debunking the lies of the opposition to anyone who cares is one way. There are more, and what we need is a single entity focusing on those points in a responsible and committed way. We don't have that, and therefore we will be forever begging for the little crumbs of compromise so we can feel like we're doing something.

[tbtrout 141]

Well written Ken.

[kenw 293]

Well written Ken.

Thanks. I have rare moments of lucidity.

[rauchman 3]

..... and what we need is a single entity focusing on those points in a responsible and committed way. We don't have that, and therefore we will be forever begging for the little crumbs of compromise so we can feel like we're doing something.

 

Well said. I agree that we would need a singular entity to represent the NJ gun owner. My 1st thought is to somehow get the NRA more involved, but A.) I don't think they are, or ever have been, too effectual in NJ and B.) in NJ and other blue states, the NRA carries a stigma with it, or rather a perception that they cater to toothless bible thumping rednecks, that utilizing them might cause more harm than good. I may be way off base here, but in blue states, I don't believe the general public would get behind the NRA for this fight.

 

I'm wondering if a public campaign could be waged by coming from a different angle. It seems the anti's come from the angle of FEAR - fear the people who have guns. I'm wondering if the same type tactic could be utilized from our perspective. Fear not having a gun.

 

don't know............

[Lublin 3]

Well written Ken.

 

At a quick glance, I thought that said "Well written Kitten."

 

I was about to start asking some questions...