Always wanted an AR-15

[zeenon 0]

So I always wanted an AR-15 in my collection but I'm a total noob with this type of gun. I was going to build one then I saw RichieDubs and wanted one even more and decided I don't want to build from scratch anymore but buy a complete setup then mod it from there.

 

Long and short of it I like this model (M4A3):

 

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4.asp?zoom_highlight=BCWA3F+16M4

 

1) I know there are a TON of mods out there, can this model be ripped apart and modded?

 

2) I read the 14M4IZ which was the original one I was looking at, is loud because of the muzzle brake (does not have a flash suppressor) True/False are we talking sonic boom louder? This is why I went with the one above.

 

3) Any reason not to get the M4A3? From all the reading looks Jersey legal (other then the 30 rd mags)

 

Z

[coldsolderjoint 84]

The stock will have to be pinned and like you said, it needs a permanently attached muzzle break instead of a flash suppressor.

 

I'm not an AR expert, but just about everything can be changed iirc, but the front gas block is one important decision to make when you buy, because most of them slide off the front of the barrel which will require removal of the muzzle break if you decide to change it.

 

Bushmaster does make NJ legal model which come A-OK from the factory.

 

Our vendors here on the site will be able to help you out if you wish to buy in state.

[bbk 188]

I'm no expert myself and will keep the brief as I'm typing this from my phone, and that's just aggravating.

The problem with the bushmaster from what I can tell is that it still has the bayo lug, flash hider (as been noted), and retractable stock. Now you can still get this and NJify it at a smith or a place like ADCO. When I get home I'll add more thoughts-- and maybe post pics of my rifle!

[HODGIE 3]

CSJ is right neither of those in the picture are NJ legal, among the things mentioned you will also have

to remove the bayonet lug. My advise is hit some of the local shops who have them in stock and see

what you like any AR can be modded with all the crap out there If your plan is to dump $$ into an already high priced rifle.

 

If your in the Jersey shore are hit up Shore Shot they have about 20+ AR's in stock right now from several manufactures. Personally I would rather build one get what you want the 1st time and not have to change anything out and pay for parts you do not want or need. Since parts are pretty much back to where they were or lower then before the election because of increased production and a bad economy you can build a real shooter for less them most entry level rifles from the big names.

Building one, even just the lower gives you a much better understanding and appreciation for the over all platform.

 

Spikes lower, Armlite upper, just needs an optic and it's done.

 

Just my .02

[zeenon 0]

Ok,

 

Is there a major cost savings building it yourself? Any website that guides you through it?

 

I'm not worried about the build (if I had too), I'm more worried about buying the wrong thing! (In fact building it a little at a time would be great...less strain on my wallet)

 

Of course the other issue I face is I'm cross eye dominate, easily solved with handguns, but is it an issue with one of these beasts?

 

Z

[HODGIE 3]

Check out AR-15.COM and check out AGI builders and armors DVD's.

There are so many parts sites out there it's ridiculous, I will put together a list of where I bought

my products from and post it tomorrow.

[EchoMirage 137]

look into bushmasters ORC, or optics ready carbine. i emailed them a while back, asking if they can make a NJ legal upper like their ORC. they will, it will sort of be a custom job. i just got a new upper from stag arms, their stag 3 i think its called. i dont think theirs that much of a price saving aspect if you build your own, unless you get used parts. the stag was the cheapest upper i could find, and it was still 400+. add a lower, theres another 200+. then whatever parts you want, plus stock/grip, and youre near the cost of a new factory gun anyway.

 

you can always try one of the bargain bin used guns, if you can get it NJ legal and shipped. then add/customize as you like, when you like.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

You may find this thread helpful too:

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1237

[sparny524 0]

This is the bushmaster XM-15 O.R.C. I have. It came from the factory with no bayo lug, pinned stock, and a welded muzzlebrake. The muzzlebrake does make it a little loud but nothing too crazy.

[HODGIE 3]

These are the sites I used.

My total build was about 1k but I purchased a few things I did use in the end, so

It would have been about $925.00 give or take a few. There are guy's building for $650-$750.00 right now

with new parts so it can be done with some research. I would also take into account that most rifles in the $950-$1100.00

range in the shops are stock then you end up dumping another $300.00 + in quad rails, new grips, sights and what ever else you need hanging off the rifle.

 

http://www.jsesurplus.com/stocks.aspx

http://www.milsurpstuff.com/categories.asp?cat=AR-15

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AR15 ... Parts.html

http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm/category/1/ar15.cfm

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/

[mikeyboyeee 66]

The problem is, guys like me know NOTHING about ARs and quite a bit of reasearch and time (that I don't have now) has to go into figuring out what to get.

[HODGIE 3]

The problem is, guys like me know NOTHING about ARs and quite a bit of reasearch and time (that I don't have now) has to go into figuring out what to get.

 

If you were to buy a completed rifle you would have to learn the platform for cleaning and trouble shooting anyway.

Might as well do it while putting it together yourself. The upper can be a bit of a challenge so buying a completed one

is a good idea however building a lower is pretty easy, teaches you a lot and you can do the trigger job on it before getting it together from the start.

 

If you buy and completed upper and then build your lower you will need

 

. receiver

. lower parts kit

. buffer/tube/spring/nut and sling plate

. Stock

 

Put it all together and then slap in on the upper, done in about an hour or so.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

No the physical assembly aspect.

The aspect of not knowing brands, features, uses, etc of said parts.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

This is the bushmaster XM-15 O.R.C. I have. It came from the factory with no bayo lug, pinned stock, and a welded muzzlebrake. The muzzlebrake does make it a little loud but nothing too crazy.

 

Pretty soon my rifle will be similar to yours.

 

Just ordered my YHM hooded flip up front sight/GB and YHM muzzle break with aggressive end (teeth).

[bbk 188]

You have a good point, mikey. The assembly part is as easy as slapping together some Legos (reason why we call them Legos right?). Hodgie did point out a lot of good resources, but its still a toss up regarding the parts themselves... unless you know what to look for.

My recommendation is to always go for quality parts versus economical. For example, whenever I consider parts, I always look at the best brand on the market, and work my way down the list using the 'wallet' filter. With that said, you can still get high quality items for very economical prices (Magpul for example).

 

I would recommend the following:

For complete uppers:

Tier 1: Noveske, Colt, Sabre Defence, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM (Bravo Company Manufacturing)

Tier 2: DPMS, Armalite, Bushmaster, Stag, Smith and Wesson, Spikes Tactical, CMMG, Rock River Arms

Tier 3: Everything else

 

I'm sure I'm missing some, and others I didn't include. I didn't include company specific products (with the exception of BCM because I really think they have top notch stuff), like rifles/uppers made by ADCO Firearms for example. I also didn't include specific models, like the Ruger AR because it really is their only product. Feel free to add to that list, I know I missed something...

 

Regarding uppers, you can always go relatively cheaper because the quality will still be very good. Just make sure you research the brands and models, and if you have the opportunity to tinker around with one in a store before purchasing-- check for certain things. I recommend to research everything, but you want to check for correct gas keys on the bolt carrier group, and correct feed ramps for example. Personally, I just bought an aftermarket bolt carrier group and charging handle (the BCM BCG [so glad I got mine during their sale], and the Mod 4 Gunfighter CH) because I feel those are pieces that I know I want better then just factory. Something you might want to invest in, but hopefully won't have to worry about for awhile is an extra barrel. There is a wide range of barrels out there, and I would recommend spending the money on the barrels from those "Tier 1" brands I listed. Why? Because those companies tend to go the extra mile (for example, I believe Daniel Defense uses the same barrel designed for the M249-SAW for their AR barrels).

 

Lowers are relatively more simple. As for the parts, you can go relatively economical if you wish. A lot of companies out there sell whole "lower packages" that come with everything you need (DPMS is a company that does this I believe). However, as Hodgie pointed out, while assembling or replacing parts in the lower, it might be a good opportunity to replace the trigger if you wish. There is a very good selection of triggers, and its something I'm not entirely familiar with-- so, I'm sure someone else can explain the brands/types. The only other thing about lowers I would make note of is if you're Left-Handed, you might want to invest in more/different parts. Magpul has their B.A.D lever designed for the bolt catch, making it an ambi.

 

Sorry if I missed anything, and I hope I helped a bit. Sorry for the length of the read :|

[HODGIE 3]

15 minute trigger job with your stock parts that really works, if you mess up it will cost all of .50 to fix.

http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm

 

 

As far as the list of Tier 1 uppers I have to disagree but that's just my opinion, just like buying a TV I guess.

Yes they are all excellent uppers and companies but most of the companies listed are all milspec, then you also

have to think is spending $400.00 more on a DD over a Armlite really going to make that much of a noticeable

difference at the range and the answer is absolutely not for the average shooter.

 

If your building a AR for competition or bench shooting only there are smarter choices you will have to make but outside of that I cannot think of to many other cases but that is just me.

[bbk 188]

No doubt, Hodgie, regarding the Tier 1 uppers. I own a Smith and Wesson myself, and am happy with it. But if I had a little extra for a Noveske or if I wanted to build a new rifle with a BCM, would I take that route? I would think so. The reason why I put the brands where their tiers are is based on reputation. Not necessarily because brand X sounds cooler because everyone talks about them... but because they've repeatedly made very, very high quality products. Colt and BCM are good examples of this without having to break the bank. Do those same brands make some lemons here and there? Of course.

 

I also don't really consider bench-shooting and competition shooting when I consider getting an AR, but that's a personal thing. ARs are what I would consider a battle rifle (same with M1s and M14s), and while the companies make milspec products, not all products are equal... and there are some products I wouldn't necessarily entrust with my life. But you're right, Hodgie, there is no need to spend a crazy amount for quality AR products these days for the casual user. If you can get an Armalite or Bushy for a darn good price compared to a Sabre or LMT, I would definitely take that deal. I guess it doesn't help that we have to neuter everything in NJ as well.

[nickd308 0]

I guess it doesn't help that we have to neuter everything in NJ as well.

 

Basically regardless what you buy, you'll have the sissy NJ version anyway but i guess im just

[Caine 147]

There is a wide range of barrels out there, and I would recommend spending the money on the barrels from those "Tier 1" brands I listed. Why? Because those companies tend to go the extra mile (for example, I believe Daniel Defense uses the same barrel designed for the M249-SAW for their AR barrels).

Close - Noveske uses the same steel that M249 barrels are made out of.

 

 

Not surprisingly, I happen to agree with almost everything bbk said. I'd probably move DPMS to Tier 3.. and maybe Sabre to Tier 2... but that's just me.

 

As far as the list of Tier 1 uppers I have to disagree but that's just my opinion, just like buying a TV I guess.

Yes they are all excellent uppers and companies but most of the companies listed are all milspec

I will respectfully disagree with the latter part of that statement. Not all the companies listed are "milspec". 1/9 twist is not milspec. AR15 bolt carriers are not milspec... and a staked gas key isn't too much to ask for, is it?

That said, I largely agree with you - the average shooter doesn't necessarily need all the "mislpec" bells and whistles and the bench shooter certainly doesn't.

 

Building an AR, to me at least, is putting together a package that meets your needs (be they perceived needs or actual needs). For most people, a "budget" AR will work just fine. The line is slightly blurred when you buy a BCM or DD AR for a couple hundred bux more than a Bushy or DPMS. IMHO the extra money is worth it. Regardless, just keep them well lubed, give the parts (BCG, castle nut, etc.) a quick once over every so often, and everything should run fine.

 

Oh.. and all my TVs are Samsungs

[bbk 188]

I forgot to add something actually. Always have spare parts! This is something that took me awhile to do actually. I always would be a click away from buying some spare parts, but then I figured it'd be money better spent elsewhere (like extra magazines or another box of ammo). Its not a serious thing for the casual user, but you never know when something might crap out and you're stuck with a rifle that has transformed into a bat (not even a spear in NJ! ).

 

I don't want to start the whole topic of what breaks, but I would recommend picking up at least an extra bolt and bolt carrier group. Other things may break, but a busted bolt is a bad day.

[EchoMirage 137]

No the physical assembly aspect.

The aspect of not knowing brands, features, uses, etc of said parts.

 

just look around for a brand new, or if possible, a stock used gun. its the same with buying cars. i didnt know much about LS1s when i bought my TA, but i read up on forums and magazines, and learn as i went along. im far more into working on cars then i am guns, but a half hour of reading on forums or just checking websites will teach you the basics of what you need to know. its how it decided to buy the few parts that i have.

 

as far as spare parts, the easiest thing is to go to someplace like bushmasters site, and pick up their parts kits. they have upper kits, lower, spring, detents, spring & detents.....everything you can think of, and very cheap.

 

try buying a basic, stock gun. full length or carbine. basic meaning A2/A3 style, with the handguard upper. shoot it for a while, then if you want, you can change the upper, the stock, grip, forearms, etc.

 

this was a plain bushmaster XM15, also called the 'AK AR', because it had an AK brake on it stock.

 

the aforementioned aggressive YHM brake

[zeenon 0]

Ok, so I'm going to try my hand at building one. I went to the shop today to check out the Bushmasters and was secs away from ordering the XM-15, but I wanted some options that I may not be able to do with a stock XM-15.

 

First for starters this is my gotta have list:

LaRue Tactical SPR-E scope mount (no scope decided on yet)-U

Grip Magpul MIAD-L

GG&G-1297 GG&G Tactical Modular Bolt On Flip Up Front Sight Gas Block-U

GG&G-1005-SA A2 Spring Actuated BUIS-U

 

So I figure I'll start with the lowers first. I'd like to pick up a completed lower (yes I'm cheating) from Spikes.

These are the options and what I'm having trouble with:

 

Please Choose:

KNS Anti-Rotation pins

None or KNS Gen II Mod II (+25.00) Do I need the upgraded anti-rotation pins?

 

Stock Option

Standard M4 pinned at Position 6

 

Latch Plate Upgrade

I picked the standard Mil-Spec

 

Grip Option

Magpul MIAD (a want from above)

 

California Bullet Button

No bullet button (Assuming I don't need this in NJ?)

 

Trigger Guard Option

Magpul Enchanced

 

Trigger Option

Mil-Spec Single Stage

 

Furniture Color

Black

 

9mm Option

None

 

Lower Option

There are a couple options here and I'm not sure what to pick. I was thinking Safe/Fire (223/5.56mm) or Safe/Fire (Multi-Cal) but I have no idea what the difference is. Just seems like the stencil wording on the lower.

 

Ok, the upper seems to be an issue since I want the GG&G front site and it looks like it has to be installed before the muzzle break, or the break has to be cut off, the barrel re-threaded, and a new break pinned/welded on. Is there a place that will add on the site before installing the break?

 

Z

[mikeyboyeee 66]

I don't even know what 90% of that means

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I don't even know what 90% of that means

 

When the "AR bug" gets you, trust me, you'll know what it all means. Right now though, it means lotsa money!

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

...Ok, the upper seems to be an issue since I want the GG&G front site and it looks like it has to be installed before the muzzle break, or the break has to be cut off, the barrel re-threaded, and a new break pinned/welded on. Is there a place that will add on the site before installing the break?

 

Z

 

Adco?

 

http://www.adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=5

[bbk 188]

Zeenon, if you order an upper online, just have them send it directly to a gunsmith or a place like Adco. Most uppers, unless they're under the NFA regulated length (16''), will not have their flash hider permanently attached-- so, you don't need to worry about cutting off the old hider/re-threading (which at Adco is the package deal). However, if the barrel length is say 14.5''-14.7'' then you might have to go through the process since the flash hider would be permanently attached in that situation (to meet the NFA regulated length). My point being that if you get an upper that is already 16'', you can simultaneously send them the front sight posts you're interested in, or see if they can get it for you directly for a fee, and they'll slap it all together for you. (And make it NJ legal of course.)

You would also do the same thing with the lower. As for the options with the Spikes lowers, the stenciling is just aesthetics. No need for the bullet button, as that is a CA thing. You can get the Magpul enhanced trigger guard if you want, but unless you have really beefy fingers or wear gloves when you shoot-- I wouldn't waste money on that option.

 

All this Spikes' talk, and it gives me the itch to order the upper I've been planning for a couple weeks now. I have to wait until I make some more money though :pray:

[EchoMirage 137]

i have the magpul MIAD grip, with the biggest backstrap and enhanced guard. fits my hand much better then the stock grip, and better then the rubber hogue i installed years ago.

 

it sounds like all the options you want can easily be done with a bushmaster ORC upper, or a stag 3.