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bill45

Question on Hi Cap Mags in NJ

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I can't find anywhere in the NJ gun laws that gives a clear answer to this question. "Is it legal to own a magazine that holds over 15 rounds if you keep it in your home, it never leaves your home, and stays locked up in a safe"?

Does anyone know for sure the legal answer to this question?

 

Thanks

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Mags over 15 are a no go. Doesn't matter if you're in your home, in your backyard, where you work, at the range.. etc.. If it holds more than 15, then it is illegal.

 

Also, hollow points are not prohibited. They are an extra felony charge if you commit a crime (even in your own home), but, in and of themselves, are not illegal.

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... Hollow points ... are prohibited but not in your home.

 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

 

...As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances....

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Thanks for all the responses. The reason I asked is I wanted to buy them now and store them as long as it was legal to do so. I am retiring in 3 years and moving to Pennsylvania where they are legal to use. I guess that idea is out of the question. I hope you can still get them three years from now.

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I have a friend that knows a guy that is brother in law to this one fella....

 

well he bought his regular capacity mags and has them shipped to his family members in another state where they are legal. Those items are then stored for him at their locale.

 

You could also "possibly" do a safe deposit box out of state. Check with your bank to see if you get a good rate on safe deposit boxes. Store them their.

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I have a friend that knows a guy that is brother in law to this one fella....

 

well he bought his regular capacity mags and has them shipped to his family members in another state where they are legal. Those items are then stored for him at their locale.

 

You could also "possibly" do a safe deposit box out of state. Check with your bank to see if you get a good rate on safe deposit boxes. Store them their.

 

That works. :text-yeahthat:

 

But definitely don't bring them in NJ. Its not worth it. If Im not mistaken I think its a felony to have anything over a 15 rounder.

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Thanks for all the responses. The reason I asked is I wanted to buy them now and store them as long as it was legal to do so. I am retiring in 3 years and moving to Pennsylvania where they are legal to use. I guess that idea is out of the question. I hope you can still get them three years from now.

 

 

or you do what I did. Have a relative/friend out of state buy and store them for you. I have a 40mm ammo can full of Pmags, and Fn mags sitting in my BiL's garage in Pa waiting for me to retire and GTFO of this state.

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A twist on the original question. What if a high cap mag in 1 caliber is a "low cap" in another? For example a 458 Socom mag is 7 rnds in 1 caliber but 20 in another. If I have it for 458 Socom/50 Beowulf/450 bushmaster where it would be "low cap" do I just need to own the caliber weapon as sufficient proof?

 

Shane

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It helps to own one. :? It helps if you don't own a 223Rem rifle. :idea: If you own both, then mark it "For .50Beowulf ONLY", etc.

 

Exactly what I did in Cali. 30rd pmags hold 10rds .50 BEOWULF. I dremeled off the number 30 on all of them and any 5.56 and wrote 50 Beowulf designated with a 10rd indication on them. I have 50beowulf rds and upper. I also left one round of the 50 beowulf ammo in each magazine to show intent of legality. I also have several 10 rd 5.56 mags with one 5.56 rd in each to show intent.

 

Now I dont know how bad the state would want to prosecute a law abiding citizen - given by the above. and I dont want to know. but its what I did and haven't shown it off to see. nor would I ever.

 

And this wasn't done to skirt the law. Just to clairify my legal intent of what I owned.

 

This is not legal advice. Please let me know how you guys would think it would go over in NJ before I move there.

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as the law is written if the magazine is capable of holding and feeding more than 15 continuous rounds it is a hi capacity magazine and thus illegal.. I do not believe it is relevant if you own the other caliber or not..

 

the magazine can hold more than 15 rounds and fit a semi auto gun or it can't.. doesn't get much more plainer than that.. "writing something on the side" doesn't change anything.. the magazine still functions as hi capacity..

 

IMO of course..

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Many of you may wish to check/edit your posts:

 

NJSA 2C:39-1(y)

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

 

NJSA 2C:39-3(j)

 

Any person who knowingly has in his possession a large capacity ammunition magazine is guilty of a crime in the fourth degree....

 

I don't see anything about intent or about other possible calibers making an "illegal" magazine legal.

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Huh?

 

I can fit (17) 9mm rounds into my Glock 22 magazine. Does that make my magazine illegal?

 

does it fit a glock chambered in 9mm? will it continuously feed more than 15 rounds?

 

as ridiculous as this sounds.. if the answer is yes.. then as the law is literally written.. yes..

 

that may not be the intent of the law.. but none the less how the law is written.. as pointed out.. the law does not distinguish intent.. your willingness to break the law.. it simply says.. if you have a mag that can feed more than 15 into a semi auto.. it is an illegal high capacity mag..

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That sucks. I have several magazines made by Alexander Arms that are stamped, created, and designed for the 50 Beowulf, but because one could use them not as they were designed or intended, and force 30 rounds of 223 and make it function in another rifle. They could be and most likly seen as illegal. So sad the ignorance of those that are suppose to be intelligent and create our laws.

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does it fit a glock chambered in 9mm? will it continuously feed more than 15 rounds?

 

as ridiculous as this sounds.. if the answer is yes.. then as the law is literally written.. yes..

 

that may not be the intent of the law.. but none the less how the law is written.. as pointed out.. the law does not distinguish intent.. your willingness to break the law.. it simply says.. if you have a mag that can feed more than 15 into a semi auto.. it is an illegal high capacity mag..

In order to enforce most laws, there must be an intent by the actor. It comes down to the totality of the evidence present at the time.

 

If one has no firearm present to shoot the smaller round that will load into the mags, then there is no way one can assume it will be used that way.

 

If he marked the magazine for the "50Beo ONLY", kept the mags with that firearm, I see no problem with this. His intent is to obey the law, not unlike pinning a stock that can unpinned easily.

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In order to enforce most laws, there must be an intent by the actor. It comes down to the totality of the evidence present at the time.

 

If one has no firearm present to shoot the smaller round that will load into the mags, then there is no way one can assume it will be used that way.

 

If he marked the magazine for the "50Beo ONLY", kept the mags with that firearm, I see no problem with this. His intent is to obey the law, not unlike pinning a stock that can unpinned easily.

 

the problem is.. intent is not fact... and the fact still remains that as the law is literally written you can not have a magazine that will feed more than 15 rounds continuously..

think about it.. if I had a friend who owns NO guns.. could he have a stack of 30 round AK mags (in NJ?) maybe just for collecting purposes... while owning no actual AK series rifle.. does not owning the gun negate that he is in fact in possession of hi cap mags? it would change everything if that was accurate.. you could buy all the hi cap mags you wanted and just leave them at your friends house who owns no guns that the mags fit? "oh yeah well they are 30 round AK mags.. but I dont have an AK so I won't actually be using them... so they are legal" good luck with that defense..

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Aren't these laws "Strict Liability" , meaning that just illegally possessing a prohibited object is enough to be convicted, with no defense other than to prove the item is not contraband?

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the problem is.. intent is not fact... and the fact still remains that as the law is literally written you can not have a magazine that will feed more than 15 rounds continuously..

think about it.. if I had a friend who owns NO guns.. could he have a stack of 30 round AK mags (in NJ?) maybe just for collecting purposes... while owning no actual AK series rifle.. does not owning the gun negate that he is in fact in possession of hi cap mags? it would change everything if that was accurate.. you could buy all the hi cap mags you wanted and just leave them at your friends house who owns no guns that the mags fit? "oh yeah well they are 30 round AK mags.. but I dont have an AK so I won't actually be using them... so they are legal" good luck with that defense..

 

Going back to the Glock 22 analogy, you are saying that because the G22 magazine can hold (17) 9mm rounds, it would be illegal to possess, even without possessing a firearm? :rolleyes:

 

I think your answer would be "no". Why? Because it is marked .40S&W, correct?

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Since you guys brought this up, I have a similar question about an antique rifle.

 

A slide-action .22 trainer that can handle shorts, longs & long rifle cartridges. It belongs to a friend of mine. He teaches kids how to shoot with it. At least a 50 year old model and the design is dating back to near the turn of the last century. If I only own long rifle rounds and only use long rifle rounds, what happens if the gun's tubular magazine will hold (17) .22 shorts? The rifle is a youth model from yesteryear. Obviously the intent is to adhere to the 15 round capacity by using the longest rounds that will feed & function. So do I have to alter the gun to accept less than 15 LR rounds just so I can't fire the shorts that I never bought or have?? And what Cop or Judge is going to pull .22 shorts out of their pocket to test the darned thing anyway?

 

Sometimes I think that some of us just borrow too much trouble!

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