Something to watch out for at the PD

[9C1 0]

Last week I did the paperwork for 3 more pistol permits. When I handed the forms in with the money order, that lady beind the counter (who was a pain in the ass to deal with last time) tried to tell me that I "could only get one per month", conveniently leaving out the one GUN a month part. I questioned her first whether she meant one GUN a month or one PERMIT a month and she said permit. I proceeded to tell her that its "one gun per month" not "one permit a month". She seemed surprised that I didnt hesitate or have a problem with telling her the law.

 

She also tried to have me fill out 3 additional forms other than STS-33 and SP-66. I also politely refused to fill these out and reminded her of the law regarding permit forms.

 

Why do they feel that they can not only break the law by taking longer than 30 days to process this paperwork, but make you feel like a criminal for wanting to excercise your GOD GIVEN right as an American, as well as give you as hard of a time as they can?

 

Im not a criminal. I pay my taxes. Stop giving ME a hard time.

[djg0770 481]

I applaud you for challenging them with the law, stating the law, knowing the law, and requiring them to submit to the law.

[TonyJ 17]

This wasn't Hamilton Twp. PD was it? The women there is a major PITA.

[bbk 188]

From my knowledge, my buddy didn't have any issues with his issuing PD (which is Hamilton PD)-- not to mention their ridiculously awesome turn-around rate (two-three weeks) for permits and FID.

 

Now, the clerks who work at my local PD are absolutely awesome, but the turn around rate is just as bad as the rest of the state (took them five months this last time for permits).

[9C1 0]

No it was the Gloucester City PD in Camden County.

 

Same lady that asked me why I wanted a gun in the first place when I applied for my FID. Didnt get a name, but next time I am in (probably in 3 monthes without a phone call) I'll be sure to.

[TonyJ 17]

From my knowledge, my buddy didn't have any issues with his issuing PD (which is Hamilton PD)-- not to mention their ridiculously awesome turn-around rate (two-three weeks) for permits and FID.

 

Now, the clerks who work at my local PD are absolutely awesome, but the turn around rate is just as bad as the rest of the state (took them five months this last time for permits).

 

Since the new Police Chief has been in Hamilton it has been a joke.

In the 80's and 90's the normal wait was a month or so.

The last 2 times i applied for pistol permits ( 2 years and 6 months ago) it took all of 2-3 months to process them.

Each time i called, after being placed on hold for 5 to 10 minutes i was told by the not so awesome clerk that they are very busy , or were waiting on State police, Total BS.

[bbk 188]

From my knowledge, my buddy didn't have any issues with his issuing PD (which is Hamilton PD)-- not to mention their ridiculously awesome turn-around rate (two-three weeks) for permits and FID.

 

Now, the clerks who work at my local PD are absolutely awesome, but the turn around rate is just as bad as the rest of the state (took them five months this last time for permits).

 

Since the new Police Chief has been in Hamilton it has been a joke.

In the 80's and 90's the normal wait was a month or so.

The last 2 times i applied for pistol permits ( 2 years and 6 months ago) it took all of 2-3 months to process them.

Each time i called, after being placed on hold for 5 to 10 minutes i was told by the not so awesome clerk that they are very busy , or were waiting on State police, Total BS.

Really? That's odd. For reference: I put in for permits in October (with my local PD). My buddy (who deals with Hamilton PD) put in the paperwork for permits in December, received his mid-Jan, and bought a pistol. He then put in paperwork for another permit (he only put in for one initially) for more permits at the end of Jan/beginning of Feb, and received them last week-- a few days before I received my permits I had put in for in October. He also had the same turn-around rate for his initial FID/permit about a year ago.

[TonyJ 17]

From my knowledge, my buddy didn't have any issues with his issuing PD (which is Hamilton PD)-- not to mention their ridiculously awesome turn-around rate (two-three weeks) for permits and FID.

 

Now, the clerks who work at my local PD are absolutely awesome, but the turn around rate is just as bad as the rest of the state (took them five months this last time for permits).

 

Since the new Police Chief has been in Hamilton it has been a joke.

In the 80's and 90's the normal wait was a month or so.

The last 2 times i applied for pistol permits ( 2 years and 6 months ago) it took all of 2-3 months to process them.

Each time i called, after being placed on hold for 5 to 10 minutes i was told by the not so awesome clerk that they are very busy , or were waiting on State police, Total BS.

Really? That's odd. For reference: I put in for permits in October (with my local PD). My buddy (who deals with Hamilton PD) put in the paperwork for permits in December, received his mid-Jan, and bought a pistol. He then put in paperwork for another permit (he only put in for one initially) for more permits at the end of Jan/beginning of Feb, and received them last week-- a few days before I received my permits I had put in for in October. He also had the same turn-around rate for his initial FID/permit about a year ago.

 

 

I'm glad someones getting good service.

Either they just didn't like me or I must have gotten them in their busy season.

[rscalzo 3]

Thankfully I don't think anyone ever met my civilian clerk. He had more seniority then anyone in the entire municipality and could cause a saint to curse. I had to buy the ultra large bottle of antacid and assign someone to hold me back when I wanted to kill him.

[Caine 147]

Thankfully I don't think anyone ever met my civilian clerk. He had more seniority then anyone in the entire municipality and could cause a saint to curse. I had to buy the ultra large bottle of antacid and assign someone to hold me back when I wanted to kill him.

sounds like a swell dude

[Celraysoda 7]

Hackensack pulled the same with me. I questioned the Clerk, Chief and Sergeant. They all told me this is the info they received from the State Police. :?

[bbk 188]

When I got my three permits, the clerk included a short message on official letterhead:

Mr. ---:

Please be aware that under new firearms regulations effective Jan. 1, 2010, you can only use one of these permits a month to purchase a firearm. The permits expire --------.

A misstatement as it should be 'handgun' and not 'firearm,' but I can't say they gave me a hard time or looked at me weird.

[nunnayerbizness 0]

Del

[djg0770 481]

"it's my Constitutional right."

 

Umm - it's not. The NJ Constitution has NO PROVISION for a right to keep and bear arms, even going back to the original 1700's version. Furthermore, the Second Amendment to the US Constitution has NOT BEEN incorporated. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporat ... _of_Rights though this may change with McDonald vs Chicago currently being heard by the SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the US)

 

It is however provided for in NJ law that you may be granted the permission to own a Firearm, however this is referred to by some as "by exception".

Did you know that ALL firearms are banned in NJ? One can legally possess firearms by exemptions only. Under N.J.S. 2C:39-5, possession of ALL firearms is prohibited unless one has a NJ permit to carry a handgun or a NJ Firearm Purchaser ID card for long guns. Even if one possesses these licenses, under N.J.S. 2C:39-2b one is presumed not to be licensed until proven otherwise. It is up to the law abiding gun owner to prove later in court that he/she was in lawful possession under an exemption. So, in NJ, GUN OWNERS ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT!

http://www.njguns.com/trivia.htm

[OceanTactical 0]

I work in a gun shop and SELL GUNS. When I have to open and screw up the code I have to exit the shop with my firearm on to ID myself. Yet in the same town for additional permits and my new FID I am at 21/2 months already.

[nunnayerbizness 0]

yue

[ChrisJM981 924]

 

She also tried to have me fill out 3 additional forms other than STS-33 and SP-66. I also politely refused to fill these out and reminded her of the law regarding permit forms.

I'm having the same issue. Did they approve your permits without completing the additional forms?

[djg0770 481]

 

She also tried to have me fill out 3 additional forms other than STS-33 and SP-66. I also politely refused to fill these out and reminded her of the law regarding permit forms.

I'm having the same issue. Did they approve your permits without completing the additional forms?

 

Report your PD to the Attorney General. Write a letter stating EXACTLY what they are requesting from you. State the state law, chapter, verse, and reference in your letter. IMO, the only way to combat this BS is to bring the AG down on these PD's in short order. Mr Tony357 received a letter from the AG telling him that his PD was full of manure when he wrote a simple, concise and accurate letter regarding the permit rationing that his PD was attempting.

 

In my town, all I needed to say to the clerk was that these extra forms are not permitted by state law and I will not fill them out. I did receive my permits.

[ChrisJM981 924]

 

 

 

Report your PD to the Attorney General. Write a letter stating EXACTLY what they are requesting from you. State the state law, chapter, verse, and reference in your letter. IMO, the only way to combat this BS is to bring the AG down on these PD's in short order. Mr Tony357 received a letter from the AG telling him that his PD was full of manure when he wrote a simple, concise and accurate letter regarding the permit rationing that his PD was attempting.

 

In my town, all I needed to say to the clerk was that these extra forms are not permitted by state law and I will not fill them out. I did receive my permits.

 

Sent April 27th 2010

 

"To whom it may concern,

 

I am trying to find out what information is permissible to be requested by a police department for a Firearms ID Card and pistol purchase permits. I live in the Borough of ****** in Bergen County. The police are requiring applicants to sign an information waiver allowing them to check an applicant

[PK90 3,573]

:clap:

 

Did you send it to the NJSP or NJAG?

[ChrisJM981 924]

:clap:

 

Did you send it to the NJSP or NJAG?

 

NJAG. I called the NJSP and pardon my language but the detective who I spoke to was a F***ing moron. He told me the local departments can require whatever they like. Glad you people don't know the laws you're supposed to enforce.

 

He was the person the system gave me when I pushed whatever number for firearms questions. I hate this state. It uses the Constitution as a toilet seat liner and wipes it's budget bloated corrupt a$$ with the Bill of Rights.

[ActionJacksonNJ 0]

I applied in Jackson during the 1st week in April; called them up last week and everything is done. The lady said the Chief of Police has to sign off on it -- he's had it for a week already. Hopefully they'll call me up tomorrow. Not sure what's talking so long. state and fed approvals are done. NJ law states 30 day process -- what gives?

[djg0770 481]

NJ law states 30 day process -- what gives?

 

Who is going to challenge them?

[ActionJacksonNJ 0]

NJ law states 30 day process -- what gives?

 

Who is going to challenge them?

 

Where is the ALCU when you need them? Go figure.

[ChrisJM981 924]

:clap:

 

Did you send it to the NJSP or NJAG?

 

Two weeks have passed and I have received no response from the NJAG. That's what I get for sending an email. I was thinking of sending a letter through the mail and putting a return receipt on it so someone has to sign for it. In the meantime I'm going to drop off my applications sans the waiver and see what happens. If they get denied I'm contacting bceagle for that Pro bono publico 2A work he was talking about in another thread.

 

Edit: I dropped off my permit application and mental health waiver today and just didn't fill out the extra one. The wait begins. I've decided on the Walther P22. I really think I want a Beretta 92FS, but I'm still up in the air between the 92, the Sig 226, and :gasp: the Springfield XD9. Good thing I got 3 permits.

[Edge 6]

Why do they feel that they can not only break the law by taking longer than 30 days to process this paperwork

 

 

I was having a problem with my local PD over the same issue, I contacted an attorney who specializes in NJ gun law issues. He advised me that although the statute seems clear on the 30 day issue there is case law which sets precedent giving the issuing PD the wiggle room to play the game saying your file is not complete. The case law further interprets the 30 day requirement to commence from the point your file becomes complete.

 

I received my permits in 45 days, all in all, I guess that aint so bad. The attorney advised me that he wouldnt get involved until 3 months had passed.

[PK90 3,573]

Case Law

[Genewarper111 18]

DEAR PK90 - thank you for that - very interesting, if somewhat long winded and convoluted. I'm assuming that this is still the prevailing case law and if so, in my (not a lawyer) interpretation, it states that the Chief of Police in any township cannot determine whether "good cause" exists for an FPID denial without the fingerprint check, and so is within his/her rights (and the implication, responsibility) to postpone a decision until the fingerprint report is obtained, even if that takes more than 30 days.

 

Thus it seems that this is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" or "erring on the sfe side", depending on one's point of view, and therefore, we have to wait, irrespective of how long it takes, and have no recourse, unless we can dempnstrate that the fingerprint report has been received.

 

G

[djg0770 481]

DEAR PK90 - thank you for that - very interesting, if somewhat long winded and convoluted. I'm assuming that this is still the prevailing case law and if so, in my (not a lawyer) interpretation, it states that the Chief of Police in any township cannot determine whether "good cause" exists for an FPID denial without the fingerprint check, and so is within his/her rights (and the implication, responsibility) to postpone a decision until the fingerprint report is obtained, even if that takes more than 30 days.

 

Thus it seems that this is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" or "erring on the sfe side", depending on one's point of view, and therefore, we have to wait, irrespective of how long it takes, and have no recourse, unless we can dempnstrate that the fingerprint report has been received.

 

G

 

It would be interesting to see a case where the dept waited months to request the fingerprint report and then delayed issuing the permit after receipt of the report. I would love to see some legislation directing the PD to request the report within x days of receiving a request and issuing a permit within x days of receiving the report. THAT would be an improvement IMO. The 30 days requirement is otherwise useless. It's obvious that the 30 days was written into the law to prevent just the sort of thing that is occurring right now in many departments.

[Genewarper111 18]

^^ yes - you're spot on I think. The key piece of information everyone is lacking is the date of the fingerprint report's arrival with our local PD. I also agree that the 30 day clause was insereted against the aledged abuses we're discussing. The problem of course is that the argument about waiting for information necessary for the decision, is on the face of it to most people so damn reasonable and so it will never be a popular issue, therby allowing the present system to continue.

 

Where this leads of course is to a situation where it's best to remove the discretion of the PD from the equation and to have the FBI themselves make the determination from the outset - that is to get rid of the FPID card and go to the NCIS check, as in PA and elsewhere.

 

Now... about the question of recording sales of ammo......

 

 

G