Using someone else's gun at Cherry Ridge (getting it there)

[BCeagle 12]

I want to use my father's 357 revolver at the range. I am going over there tomorrow, how can I do this legally. Can i just take it to my house and then bring it to the range. Is it legal to borrow a handgun? Perfect world he meets me there and hands it to me, but I dont want to make him take the ride. Any other way to do this?

[Jon 264]

I want to use my father's 357 revolver at the range. I am going over there tomorrow, how can I do this legally. Can i just take it to my house and then bring it to the range. Is it legal to borrow a handgun? Perfect world he meets me there and hands it to me, but I dont want to make him take the ride. Any other way to do this?

 

Someone in the car must have a valid FID.

[BCeagle 12]

I want to use my father's 357 revolver at the range. I am going over there tomorrow, how can I do this legally. Can i just take it to my house and then bring it to the range. Is it legal to borrow a handgun? Perfect world he meets me there and hands it to me, but I dont want to make him take the ride. Any other way to do this?

 

Someone in the car must have a valid FID.

 

We both do so thats fine. I would like to take it Friday and use it Saturday.

[Shane45 807]

I may be wrong but its my understanding that the only time he can "lend" you the handgun is in person and in attendance. In other words if the two of you are at the range and he hands it over to you to shoot, thats ok. From what I understand, what you are describing is not and actually would constitute an illegal transfer.

[Jon 264]

I may be wrong but its my understanding that the only time he can "lend" you the handgun is in person and in attendance. In other words if the two of you are at the range and he hands it over to you to shoot, thats ok. From what I understand, what you are describing is not and actually would constitute an illegal transfer.

 

:shock: That's the first I've ever heard of something like that.

 

EDIT: Just checked with a Detective Sgt I know and as far as he knows, so long as both persons posses valid FID cards there shouldn't be a problem. YMMV however...

[Caine 147]

Read it and weep:

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the ... 8-3.1.html

[Jon 264]

Read it and weep:

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the ... 8-3.1.html

 

Wow. This state fucking sucks.

[Danno 127]

I may be wrong but its my understanding that the only time he can "lend" you the handgun is in person and in attendance. In other words if the two of you are at the range and he hands it over to you to shoot, thats ok. From what I understand, what you are describing is not and actually would constitute an illegal transfer

 

Yeah this:

 

 

.

The firearm shall be handled and used by the person to whom it is temporarily transferred only in the actual presence or under the direct supervision of the legal owner of the firearm, the dealer who transferred the firearm or any other person competent to supervise the handling and use of firearms and authorized to act for that purpose by the legal owner or licensed dealer. The legal owner of the firearm or the licensed dealer shall be on the premises or the property of the firing range during the entire time that the firearm is in the possession of the person to whom it is temporarily transferred

[NJ-Tom 4]

I may be wrong but its my understanding that the only time he can "lend" you the handgun is in person and in attendance. In other words if the two of you are at the range and he hands it over to you to shoot, thats ok. From what I understand, what you are describing is not and actually would constitute an illegal transfer

 

Yeah this:

 

 

.

The firearm shall be handled and used by the person to whom it is temporarily transferred only in the actual presence or under the direct supervision of the legal owner of the firearm, the dealer who transferred the firearm or any other person competent to supervise the handling and use of firearms and authorized to act for that purpose by the legal owner or licensed dealer. The legal owner of the firearm or the licensed dealer shall be on the premises or the property of the firing range during the entire time that the firearm is in the possession of the person to whom it is temporarily transferred

:text-yeahthat:

[BCeagle 12]

I may be wrong but its my understanding that the only time he can "lend" you the handgun is in person and in attendance. In other words if the two of you are at the range and he hands it over to you to shoot, thats ok. From what I understand, what you are describing is not and actually would constitute an illegal transfer

 

Yeah this:

 

 

.

The firearm shall be handled and used by the person to whom it is temporarily transferred only in the actual presence or under the direct supervision of the legal owner of the firearm, the dealer who transferred the firearm or any other person competent to supervise the handling and use of firearms and authorized to act for that purpose by the legal owner or licensed dealer. The legal owner of the firearm or the licensed dealer shall be on the premises or the property of the firing range during the entire time that the firearm is in the possession of the person to whom it is temporarily transferred

:text-yeahthat:

 

Thats what I thought, I was just hoping it wasnt true.

[Malsua 1,422]

I want to use my father's 357 revolver at the range. I am going over there tomorrow, how can I do this legally. Can i just take it to my house and then bring it to the range. Is it legal to borrow a handgun? Perfect world he meets me there and hands it to me, but I dont want to make him take the ride. Any other way to do this?

 

Someone in the car must have a valid FID.

 

A firearms purchaser ID offers no legality to actually having a firearm in your possession where it otherwise is lawful to have.(home/range/hunting/travel)

 

You may only temporarily transfer handguns at the range or some other sanctioned place and you have to supervise the use.

 

Rifles and shotguns are only different in that they can be transferred for hunting.

 

If you want to shoot your father's 357 and he doesn't want to come to the range you're legally out of luck.

[Shane45 807]

jOn, Id find another detective to talk too. He seems to really lack firearms law knowledge. FID card dont mean anything for a pistol. Your supposed to carry your actual purchase permit in transport. I carry a copy of all my purchase permits in my range bag. That way no matter which pistol I grab, I have the purchase permit with me during transport.

[Caine 147]

Your supposed to carry your actual purchase permit in transport.

Really? I haven't heard that before. What are people who moved here from out of state and brought handguns with them supposed to do?

[BCeagle 12]

I want to use my father's 357 revolver at the range. I am going over there tomorrow, how can I do this legally. Can i just take it to my house and then bring it to the range. Is it legal to borrow a handgun? Perfect world he meets me there and hands it to me, but I dont want to make him take the ride. Any other way to do this?

 

Someone in the car must have a valid FID.

 

A firearms purchaser ID offers no legality to actually having a firearm in your possession where it otherwise is lawful to have.(home/range/hunting/travel)

 

You may only temporarily transfer handguns at the range or some other sanctioned place and you have to supervise the use.

 

Rifles and shotguns are only different in that they can be transferred for hunting.

 

If you want to shoot your father's 357 and he doesn't want to come to the range you're legally out of luck.

 

Thanks Its so big and silver and shiny, I thought it would be fun.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

Thanks Its so big and silver and shiny, I thought it would be fun.

 

So bribe the old man to come to the range with you.

[Shane45 807]

Caine, this is where I see a big problem in the law. Its ok to bring to state no reg required so says the state police div of firearms. But how do you transport legally to the range? Thats the question.

 

You know I was rather sure of this and could swear it says it somewhere on the permit but I cant find it anywhere........

[Caine 147]

I've read that some people do take their PPs or COEs with them when going to the range and what not, but I always thought it was just a "peace of mind" thing and not something that was required by NJ law.

[kenw 293]

Your supposed to carry your actual purchase permit in transport.

I never heard that. I wasn't aware that I'm required to be able to prove ownership if asked. I was under the impression that the NJFPID card was sufficient to prove that I'm legally allowed to be in possession of firearms, as long as I'm legally transporting them to or from the range, shop, smith, etc.

 

I'll have to make some copies and toss them in the case.

[bobtimmons 4]

Isn't the purpose of the local PD having a copy of your PP sufficient?

 

I wonder if a copy of the PP would suffice? What if someone steals your bag? Then they'd have your gun & your permit (albeit with your name, not theirs), but you would have no proof of your permit, which takes us back to the local PD.

[AtlanticCounty 0]

Wow, this is a lame law.

[Shane45 807]

For the record, I was really sure of this but without being able to find the statute, I hesitate to say its the law. My understanding of it was just as you carry your FID for long guns, you had to carry your PP for your handguns. I do not carry my originals, I carry a copy.

 

Keep in mind this is NJ and the burdan of proof is always on the citizen to prove legal exception to posession. Much easier to do with the officer if you have permit in hand instead of having it confiscted and having to prove it to the judge later.

[ianargent 7]

Law can't require you carry the purchase permit with you as you may have purchased out of state prior to moving to NJ - thus, no PP. (Possibly also happens with inheritance; ISTR there's no requirement that you actually GET a PP to inherit, only that you be legally able to do so).

 

By statute law there is no paperwork requirement as long as you are in compliance with the transport regs (at home, fixed place of work, range, gunsmith, hunting, or in transit between with no unreasonable diversions). A FID allows you to be in possession of a longarm pretty much anyplace that isn't an education institution; a permit to carry (hah) allows you to be in possession of a handgun anyplace that isn't an educational institution. (There's some other exceptions having to do with being law enforcement, etc). I have no idea how the NJ courts have "interpreted" this requirement.

 

That having been said, the transfer of possession necessary to allow you to borrow the handgun is illegal unless the owner is with you - so once the owner leaves the room you are both in violation of the transfer regs. (This is probably why people carry their PP, so as to be able to prove that the handgun is legitimately owned by them and they are not in violation of the transfer laws).

[Chad 3]

jOn, Id find another detective to talk too. He seems to really lack firearms law knowledge.

 

95% of them have no idea about firearm laws. Or, they are so old school, they think the laws from the 70's are as up to date. Until they pick up the 2010 2C book or consult the prosecutors office.

[BCeagle 12]

A FID allows you to be in possession of a longarm pretty much anyplace that isn't an education institution

 

That doesnt seem right. By that logic I can drive around with an AR-15 on a gun rack in a pickup all day. I am sure some police officer would have a problem with it.

 

BTW: I went by my dad's to check out the gun, very nice, he has probably had it for 15 years and never fired it. Still had the original oil in the cylinder. I had to scold him because it actually had the start of rust but thankfully it just rubbed off.

[ianargent 7]

That's what the (statute) law says. The wording for possession of a longarm with a FID is practically word-for-word the same as possession of a handgun with permit to carry. They both start out with "it is unlawful to possess {x} without {the proper paperwork}." Note that the FID allows you to possess an UNLOADED rifle or shotgun; a loaded one is subject to the normal limitations.

 

2C:39-5, a, b, and c

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

_____________________________________

 

Consult a lawyer (I am not one) to see how this has been "interpreted" by the courts; I suspect they have substantially limited this...

[Jon 264]

A FID allows you to be in possession of a longarm pretty much anyplace that isn't an education institution

 

That doesnt seem right. By that logic I can drive around with an AR-15 on a gun rack in a pickup all day. I am sure some police officer would have a problem with it.

 

BTW: I went by my dad's to check out the gun, very nice, he has probably had it for 15 years and never fired it. Still had the original oil in the cylinder. I had to scold him because it actually had the start of rust but thankfully it just rubbed off.

 

Doesn't the law require longguns to be cased while in the car?

[snowcrash75 0]

This is so ridiculous. I can legally take my pistol to the range, but can't bring my WIFE's. I can only fire it if she is there with me supervising. WAIT A MINUTE! did she have anything to do with writing this law?!? :mrgreen:

[ianargent 7]

A FID allows you to be in possession of a longarm pretty much anyplace that isn't an education institution

 

That doesnt seem right. By that logic I can drive around with an AR-15 on a gun rack in a pickup all day. I am sure some police officer would have a problem with it.

 

BTW: I went by my dad's to check out the gun, very nice, he has probably had it for 15 years and never fired it. Still had the original oil in the cylinder. I had to scold him because it actually had the start of rust but thankfully it just rubbed off.

 

Doesn't the law require longguns to be cased while in the car?

 

Only if you are transporting under the "no permit" scenario (and then, I think, only if you don't have it in a locked compartment such as the trunk).

 

All that said, I play it safe and lock everything I can up and usually take the car with the trunk. There's legal, and there's "not getting to eat asphalt and having to pay a lawyer the big bucks".

[Malsua 1,422]

This is so ridiculous. I can legally take my pistol to the range, but can't bring my WIFE's. I can only fire it if she is there with me supervising. :

 

Correct. That would be an illegal transfer unless she was at the range with you, supervising.

 

In fact, if you hand it to your spouse in your home, I think that's an illegal transfer. It's asinine.

[Caine 147]

In fact, if you hand it to your spouse in your home, I think that's an illegal transfer. It's asinine.

So, if I'm out of town and something goes bump in the night and the wife grabs one of the guns, that's a no no?