3 things you did not know about the Islam

[lunker 274]

Islam is not the threat, radicalized people who are lied to about their own religion by people of their religion. Who is the real infidel?

I am a Jew, my wife loves Jesus. I dont share that. We share alot together of religion, we never thought one religion is a threat. Radical Islam is a threat just like lack of knowledge and alot of Wikipedia to make your point.

Do you have an original thought? We are all responsible for our 'diet' of what we take in as individuals.

 

There are differences between Christianity and Islam. Christianity is a peaceful religion practiced by mainly peaceful people, but also many not-so-peaceful people (see the Crusades, Dark Ages, etc). While there are mentions of violence in the New Testament, by-and-large it advocates peaceful and civil behavior towards all people of all religions.

Islam is a militant religion practiced mostly by peaceful people. Those not-so-peacefully inclined have a LOT to work with in the Koran when it comes to permission for committing all kinds of horrible acts.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Terroris ... lence.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/696408/posts

http://www.melbourne.anglican.com.au/ma ... 014&s=1041

 

So is Islam a threat? It depends which followers you are talking about. If you are talking about those who strictly interpret it, hell yes. There are a lot of them, and their numbers are growing. By the way, I am not thrilled with Christians and Jews who use literal interpretation of their holy books either, but I don't worry that either of them present a danger to civilization.

[mikelets456 78]

I think most choose based on their upbringing. Whatever their parents believe in, they believe in. Shouldn't you take a step back, investigate ALL of the major religions, and decide for yourself?

 

 

These seem to contradict each other?

 

but you don't need god to do that. You can be helpful, loving, give to charity, be honest, and be part of your community WITHOUT belief in god. That's called good parenting and being an upstanding citizen.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but do you have children? Where did you you learn your morals, values and guidelines? Where do you think your parents and society learned them from? Whether you want to believe it or not this nation was built on very strong Christian/ Biblical values that were handed down from generation to generation. The values were taught and bred into our society and became 2nd nature. However, if we think our nation can survive Godless, I guarantee... GUARANTEE it will self destruct. Don't you see evidence of it now? I am not preaching end of world stuff, but look at nation after nation where God is removed... soon morals, values then ultimately FREEDOM is gone. Government replaces God and there goes the country. God given rights (Declaration of Independence) are replaced with government given rights.

 

Put simply my kids learned it from me and my wife, from God and society as a whole. See how many people open the door, let you into traffic, , let you ahead of them in line, actually have 10 items or less in the "express checkout". How many people actually own up to their mistakes? Apologize for an error or admit wrong doing? I don't see that much at all...

 

Now go to the Midwest or areas with more Conservative, Biblical upbringings and tell me there is no difference. I can see a huge difference when my kids bring home friends that have good strong families and friends that don't... the differences are night and day. I can see a huge difference in the kids that have messed up families but have a relationship with God and so forth. When the family unit has a breakdown so does society...

 

One last thing, we have taught youth groups for 10-12 years and have met kids with the most messed up families I have ever seen... some where one or both parents left the child. These kids always tell me, " I do not know where I would be without God..." This is not one instance but many. I have also had the same experience growing up as a suicidal drunken, drug doing teen and into my 20's....saw a councilor,etc. I had no real belief, nor did I care. However, had I not found God I honestly think I would be dead right now. I went from a suicidal drunk one day to receiving Christ the next and amazingly transformed. That is why I am passionate about God... not because of my Church, parents or friends but simply because what God has done.

 

See, I believe society feeds off of one another... Learning and instilling values from generation to generation. But these so-called "no brainer" values came from some where and were passed on from one generation to another. I believe they came from the Bible... look at so many of our laws and world laws, they mimic the 10 commandments and teachings from the New Testament. However, look how many of the Biblical teachings are taken over by the ROLE of Government (Love one another = hate speech, Charity=Welfare). Anyway, that's my 2 cents... thanks for listening.

 

BTW, I hated being preached to as a teen and early 20's so I apologize in advance if I am being "preachy".

[mikelets456 78]

I am not thrilled with Christians and Jews who use literal interpretation of their holy books either

 

Ok... so what are you not thrilled with? The amount of money, time and care they give to "less fortunate"? That they will give you an honest answer based on truth? Maybe because they are NOT perfect and you expect them to be? What... I really don't understand this.

 

Are you so brainwashed by MTV, the MSM and so forth that Christians are really evil, hate filled people. Really? I want to know why you despise Christians so much...even when I had no real belief, Christians never really offended me. I would like to know why...

[lunker 274]

I am not thrilled with Christians and Jews who use literal interpretation of their holy books either

 

Ok... so what are you not thrilled with? The amount of money, time and care they give to "less fortunate"? That they will give you an honest answer based on truth? Maybe because they are NOT perfect and you expect them to be? What... I really don't understand this.

 

Are you so brainwashed by MTV, the MSM and so forth that Christians are really evil, hate filled people. Really? I want to know why you despise Christians so much...even when I had no real belief, Christians never really offended me. I would like to know why...

 

There may be a misunderstanding here. I am only talking about those who literally interpret the Bible.

I am frustrated that someone would take literally the words in a book that was cobbled together by many different individuals. While the Bible (new and old Testament) may have been Divinely inspired, the books within were certainly the work of man, and inherit some of man's fallability. Think of how many contradictory statements there are in these books. Think of all the Gospels and books that were dropped by early Church councils. While the bible may serve as a useful guide for living, applying several thousand year old text literally without historical context is a problem to me. Do I really think God hates pigs and shellfish? Nope. I think uncooked pork and seafood got enough early Jews sick that somebody in their religion came up with a religious rule that would prevent illness.

[Guest]

If you want to get into it....I am not sure how much of the good book you know of, but let me start here.

 

God blessed Ishmael. Ishmael went on to lead the Islamic peoples. Same way Issiac went on to lead the Jews. Abraham and his wife, Sarah (or Saray) were told by Gabriel that she would have a son. She had not enough faith in what she was told, so she let her husband, Abraham lay with Haggar, the house maid. Haggar had both sons for Abraham. Hagar was then banished because Sarah wanted Issiac to be the one who lead great nations, but she did not have enough faith in God. Abraham was willing to chop his son's head off on God's command. They were told by their father, ABRAHAM, to believe in one God. Ishmael goes off, preaching the same thing as his father taught him. Issaic goes off, preaching the same thing his father told him. Abraham taught both sons that there is one God.

Fast Forward...in the old testament God stated that there would be this rift forever...it would never be resolved.

 

Islam has alot of violence in the Koran, but so does the old testament book of my people, the Jews. The new testament is not as violent, I agree with you on that.

Islam as a religion is not a threat.

So I agree there are differences between Christianity and Islam. But Christianity is based on Judaism, and Christains believe the old testament as gospel.

The concepts in Islam and Judaism are very similar. The schisim is forever. God said so.

God sent Jesus to tell the Jews, God sent Muhammed to tell the Muslims....according to the customs of the TIMES....which were violent times.

Jacob who was the leader of the 12 tribes of Israel had a daughter named Dinah. Dinah went out to see Sachem (SPELLING< SORRY!!) and she was raped and siezed by Sachem, the leader of Egypt. He loved her according to the good book, and basically wanted to marry her. The Egyptians told them to allow them to marry their daughters, and share their daughters with them. Dinah's brothers were very upset with her being raped, so they said they would accept, only if all the Egyptian men circumsized themselves. After they circumsized themselves, Dinah's brothers, Levi and Simeon came back and killed all the Egyptians....is this the first strike as per the bible?

Hundreds of years before Muhammed came on the scene...

Genisis 34 my friend...as violent as it gets.....

 

My point here is that the book was written for the times. Violence was the mood of the day. Violence in religion is nothing new and not exculsive to Islam...nor is it only propagated by Islam...study the books and you will see...

[lunker 274]

If you want to get into it....I am not sure how much of the good book you know of, but let me start here.

 

God blessed Ishmael. Ishmael went on to lead the Islamic peoples. Same way Issiac went on to lead the Jews. Abraham and his wife, Sarah (or Saray) were told by Gabriel that she would have a son. She had not enough faith in what she was told, so she let her husband, Abraham lay with Haggar, the house maid. Haggar had both sons for Abraham. Hagar was then banished because Sarah wanted Issiac to be the one who lead great nations, but she did not have enough faith in God. Abraham was willing to chop his son's head off on God's command. They were told by their father, ABRAHAM, to believe in one God. Ishmael goes off, preaching the same thing as his father taught him. Issaic goes off, preaching the same thing his father told him. Abraham taught both sons that there is one God.

Fast Forward...in the old testament God stated that there would be this rift forever...it would never be resolved.

 

Islam has alot of violence in the Koran, but so does the old testament book of my people, the Jews. The new testament is not as violent, I agree with you on that.

Islam as a religion is not a threat.

So I agree there are differences between Christianity and Islam. But Christianity is based on Judaism, and Christains believe the old testament as gospel.

The concepts in Islam and Judaism are very similar. The schisim is forever. God said so.

God sent Jesus to tell the Jews, God sent Muhammed to tell the Muslims....according to the customs of the TIMES....which were violent times.

Jacob who was the leader of the 12 tribes of Israel had a daughter named Dinah. Dinah went out to see Sachem (SPELLING< SORRY!!) and she was raped and siezed by Sachem, the leader of Egypt. He loved her according to the good book, and basically wanted to marry her. The Egyptians told them to allow them to marry their daughters, and share their daughters with them. Dinah's brothers were very upset with her being raped, so they said they would accept, only if all the Egyptian men circumsized themselves. After they circumsized themselves, Dinah's brothers, Levi and Simeon came back and killed all the Egyptians....is this the first strike as per the bible.

Genisis 34 my friend...as violent as it gets.....

 

My point here is that the book was written for the times. Violence was the mood of the day. Violence in religion is nothing new and not exculsive to Islam...

 

I did leave that out. I know the old Testament is violent. There is plenty of smiting going on.

The New Testament is pretty tranquil compared to the OT and the Koran. I may be incorrect (a product of a Catholic School education) but I don't believe that the Old Testament instructs Jews to direct violence towards other groups, or at least as much as the Koran does.

[Guest]

If you want to get into it....I am not sure how much of the good book you know of, but let me start here.

 

God blessed Ishmael. Ishmael went on to lead the Islamic peoples. Same way Issiac went on to lead the Jews. Abraham and his wife, Sarah (or Saray) were told by Gabriel that she would have a son. She had not enough faith in what she was told, so she let her husband, Abraham lay with Haggar, the house maid. Haggar had both sons for Abraham. Hagar was then banished because Sarah wanted Issiac to be the one who lead great nations, but she did not have enough faith in God. Abraham was willing to chop his son's head off on God's command. They were told by their father, ABRAHAM, to believe in one God. Ishmael goes off, preaching the same thing as his father taught him. Issaic goes off, preaching the same thing his father told him. Abraham taught both sons that there is one God.

Fast Forward...in the old testament God stated that there would be this rift forever...it would never be resolved.

 

Islam has alot of violence in the Koran, but so does the old testament book of my people, the Jews. The new testament is not as violent, I agree with you on that.

Islam as a religion is not a threat.

So I agree there are differences between Christianity and Islam. But Christianity is based on Judaism, and Christains believe the old testament as gospel.

The concepts in Islam and Judaism are very similar. The schisim is forever. God said so.

God sent Jesus to tell the Jews, God sent Muhammed to tell the Muslims....according to the customs of the TIMES....which were violent times.

Jacob who was the leader of the 12 tribes of Israel had a daughter named Dinah. Dinah went out to see Sachem (SPELLING< SORRY!!) and she was raped and siezed by Sachem, the leader of Egypt. He loved her according to the good book, and basically wanted to marry her. The Egyptians told them to allow them to marry their daughters, and share their daughters with them. Dinah's brothers were very upset with her being raped, so they said they would accept, only if all the Egyptian men circumsized themselves. After they circumsized themselves, Dinah's brothers, Levi and Simeon came back and killed all the Egyptians....is this the first strike as per the bible.

Genisis 34 my friend...as violent as it gets.....

 

My point here is that the book was written for the times. Violence was the mood of the day. Violence in religion is nothing new and not exculsive to Islam...

 

I did leave that out. I know the old Testament is violent. There is plenty of smiting going on.

The New Testament is pretty tranquil compared to the other two. I may be incorrect (a product of a Catholic School education) but I don't believe that the Old Testament instructs Jews to direct violence towards other groups, or at least as much as the Koran does.

 

I know what you are saying...but if you read the old testament you will know that God tells a believer to KNOCK THE TEETHOUT of a non-believer...there are plenty of references to violence toward other groups in the Torah (old testament)...those other groups being NON BELIEVERS...its really not that much different...

[lunker 274]

The difference is in the actions of the fundamentalist believers. I don't see Militant Jews endorsing attacking Muslims. I do see Militant Muslims promoting endorsing attacking Jews.

[mikelets456 78]

I am not thrilled with Christians and Jews who use literal interpretation of their holy books either

 

Ok... so what are you not thrilled with? The amount of money, time and care they give to "less fortunate"? That they will give you an honest answer based on truth? Maybe because they are NOT perfect and you expect them to be? What... I really don't understand this.

 

Are you so brainwashed by MTV, the MSM and so forth that Christians are really evil, hate filled people. Really? I want to know why you despise Christians so much...even when I had no real belief, Christians never really offended me. I would like to know why...

 

There may be a misunderstanding here. I am only talking about those who literally interpret the Bible.

I am frustrated that someone would take literally the words in a book that was cobbled together by many different individuals. While the Bible (new and old Testament) may have been Divinely inspired, the books within were certainly the work of man, and inherit some of man's fallability. Think of how many contradictory statements there are in these books. Think of all the Gospels and books that were dropped by early Church councils. While the bible may serve as a useful guide for living, applying several thousand year old text literally without historical context is a problem to me. Do I really think God hates pigs and shellfish? Nope. I think uncooked pork and seafood got enough early Jews sick that somebody in their religion came up with a religious rule that would prevent illness.

 

 

I believe the Bible to be inspired by God and "God Breathed" as stated in Timothy. What I highlighted was from "Levitical" law and hence the reason for Jesus dying for our sins once and for all. In a nutshell, the Jews complained that they had to make so many sacrifices for so many different sins they were constantly reminded of their sin. So God sent Christ to be a "one time" sacrifice to all that believe that he is the sacrifice. I really can't explain this in a "blog" so if you would like to go into further detail I would not mind explaining in a PM or on here.

 

Also, I do believe that God's word (The Bible) is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Just because technology changes does not mean morals, values and Jesus' teachings change. I trust in God's word, I believe it to be good and a guideline for life.

 

One other word about a Godless society.... if there is no center or focus on God, who makes the rules? If there is a Godless government ruling Godless people then the laws will mimic the beliefs of the ruler and no higher authority to hold the ruler in check. So if the ruler believes that all brunettes must die, or talking bad about the ruler is punishable by death, what's there to stop him? What I am trying to say is would we chose to have permanent rules from God govern the people (Freedom and choice) or ever changing rules of man (determined and changes with whom is in power).

[mikelets456 78]

I know what you are saying...but if you read the old testament you will know that God tells a believer to KNOCK THE TEETHOUT of a non-believer...there are plenty of references to violence toward other groups in the Torah (old testament)...those other groups being NON BELIEVERS...its really not that much different...

 

Have the "peace talks" of today really helped? Do the Muslims accept the Jews and are the Muslims allowing Jews to freely Worship where ever they want? I see so many tolerant Muslims these days (Sarcasm).

 

Point is, when you are surrounded by people who WILL (with out a doubt) destroy you at a moment's notice do you discuss "Peace talks"? Do you think it is the Jews who are intolerant or the Muslims?

 

I am a Christian and ALWAYS look for common ground, but if someone breaks into my house and threatens to KILL my family, do I put my gun down and enter "peace talks"?

[Guest]

The difference is in the actions of the fundamentalist believers. I don't see Militant Jews endorsing attacking Muslims. I do see Militant Muslims promoting endorsing attacking Jews.

 

 

Then you need to spend a day in the west bank...the Jews are committing genocide on the Palestinian people on a daily basis...come on...

[lunker 274]

The difference is in the actions of the fundamentalist believers. I don't see Militant Jews endorsing attacking Muslims. I do see Militant Muslims promoting endorsing attacking Jews.

 

 

Then you need to spend a day in the west bank...the Jews are committing genocide on the Palestinian people on a daily basis...come on...

 

I find Genocide to be a strong word. Unless the Israeli soldiers are running around exterminating Palestinians on sight, it falls short of that. What the Turks did to the Armenians, that is Genocide. When the West Bank or Gaza is used to launch attacks on Israel, I don't have a problem with Israel defending its borders.

I believe the saying "If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If the Jews lay down their weapons, there will be a slaughter".

[Guest]

The difference is in the actions of the fundamentalist believers. I don't see Militant Jews endorsing attacking Muslims. I do see Militant Muslims promoting endorsing attacking Jews.

 

 

Then you need to spend a day in the west bank...the Jews are committing genocide on the Palestinian people on a daily basis...come on...

 

I find Genocide to be a strong word. Unless the Israeli soldiers are running around exterminating Palestinians on sight, it falls short of that. What the Turks did to the Armenians, that is Genocide. When the West Bank or Gaza is used to launch attacks on Israel, I don't have a problem with Israel defending its borders.

I believe the saying "If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If the Jews lay down their weapons, there will be a slaughter".

 

ok, maybe its a strong word, I see the Israeli system as a structural one. For example, I will build a wall across the field where your children play...or I will keep silent as radical groups within Israel build houses and settlements on disputed land to inflame tensions...or christians who go overseas to help Israelis further build up these settlements, further inflaming tensions. I fully agree 100% that if you attack my home, you will get the .45, no doubt...Attacks that are launched are dealt with, Israel does not let shit like that stand. Palistenians need to recognize Israel, as the rest of the Muslim world needs to accept Israel. If you have my back to the sea, I will fight to make sure I kill all those who offend me...

 

I just dont think a system of oppression against the Palestinian people should be allowed to exist because this only further inflames tensions...

[djg0770 481]

Abraham lay with Haggar, the house maid. Haggar had both sons for Abraham.

 

NOT CORRECT. Hagar had Ishmael, subsequently, Sarah had Issac. Sarah sent Ishmael away as he was a constant reminder of her doubt in God and her direction to her husband to lay with the handmaiden.

 

Genesis 16

Hagar and Ishmael

1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her."

Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, "You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me."

 

6 "Your servant is in your hands," Abram said. "Do with her whatever you think best." Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.

 

7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"

"I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.

 

9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." 10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."

 

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:

"You are now with child

and you will have a son.

You shall name him Ishmael, [a]

for the LORD has heard of your misery.

 

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;

his hand will be against everyone

and everyone's hand against him,

and he will live in hostility

toward all his brothers."

 

13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen [c] the One who sees me." 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi [d] ; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.

 

15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

 

Genesis 21

The Birth of Isaac

1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him. 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac [a] to the son Sarah bore him. 4 When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. 5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

 

6 Sarah said, "God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me." 7 And she added, "Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet I have borne him a son in his old age."

Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away

8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

 

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

 

14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.

 

15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she [c] began to sob.

 

17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."

 

19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.

 

20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

[tuktuk 16]

"What the Turks did to the Armenians, that is Genocide." so following this logic >>> what we did to Indians back in the days was a Genocide. Rwanda was a Genocide. one million christians killed by christians. Bosnia was a Genocide. over 200,000 muslims killed by christians. and of course nazi europe was a genocide. 6 million jews killed by christians. Evil does have a religious denomination if u noticed. Evil does not discriminate.

and i;ve seen plenty of Militant Jews. pls read up on it.

and also for everybody >>> pls stop confusing the issues of arab nationalism with religious issues.

 

ps after reading about the whole turk/armenian thing im not sure that it qualifies as a genocide.

[sirsloop 1]

Without religion there would be no war on the west banks. My mother in law has family living there... one of her families friends was murdered last week. For what? A piece of land two different religions want to control? Its insanity. :roll:

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Without religion there would be no war on the west banks. My mother in law has family living there... one of her families friends was murdered last week. For what? A piece of land two different religions want to control? Its insanity. :roll:

You honestly believe without religion people would stop killing each other ??

You cant be that naive,can you ?? People will always hate each other if they cant do it through religion they will do it through race or class distinction.

Stop blaming the worlds problems on religion alone and start looking at the stone age educated people who have no jobs to keep them busy.

Ireland did not calm down till there were enough good paying jobs to go around. The welfare state breeds anger as people have nothing else to put there energy into.

[maideneddie 35]

The bottom line is no one is forcing these Muslim, Islamic people to stay here. If they truley believe that Americans are nothing more than a bunch of racist bigots, than they should go back to the middle east or what ever other countries they are from. That is the beauty of the U.S., we are like a revolving door. Give us you tired, your weak, and your poor, but if you don't like it here than go home. The irony is that these stupis ass's know it is better here than in that hell hole of a place they come from, so now we need to be tolerant of them?

 

I find it even funnier when true red blooded Americans run to the defense of these people. If we are that racist, and you feel that passionate about muslims, go join the army and spend some time in the sandbox. That might change your view!!

 

I have nothing against Muslims, or anybody for that matter, but god dammit I can't stand to hear people whine and cry and pull the race card. Grow the f up and find something of some real meaning to take up as a cause. Like wiping out hunger in this country.

[sirsloop 1]

Without religion there would be no war on the west banks. My mother in law has family living there... one of her families friends was murdered last week. For what? A piece of land two different religions want to control? Its insanity. :roll:

You honestly believe without religion people would stop killing each other ??

 

In the specific example of the west bank? Absolutely! What other reason would there be for two groups to want that small insignificant piece of land so much if it were not for its religious significance? Even if one groups holds a just a TINY PIECE of it, that is not good enough to quench their thirst.

 

As far as the rest of it goes. Without religion all religion based attacks, wars, etc, may not have never happened. Sure there are wars that were not religion based that took place. Vietnam for example was a war between democracy and communism. That was a just a blip compared to some wars. You could say that WW1 was triggered by a religious assassination, and WWII was a result of continued hostilities after the end of WW1. WWII boasts 6million+ Jews slaughtered. Some say upwards of 17 million civilians were killed by the Nazis if you consider all of the groups they were targeting. That's not even considering the ~100 million army personnel killed or wounded between WWI and WWII.

 

I cannot deny the fact that religion can be part of an upstanding community any more than you can deny that religion has been the sole cause of massive chaos and death.

[tbtrout 141]

Guys we have gone about as far as we can with this thread.