Primary Arms M3-clone Sale

[bbk 188]

http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=18&categoryId=5

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Just got an email from Primary Arms, and they put their M3-clone (linked above) on sale til Monday evening. Normally goes for $70, on sale for $50. Its a decent option for .22s, though I've heard of these running fine on ARs and AKs.

 

I personally have this exact model. Originally put it on my AR until I found an upgrade, and held zero fine. I've recently put mine on my 15-22, and it co-witnesses just fine (1/3). I've recommended them before, and I'll stand by such recommendations regarding PA's products and service.

 

*I am no way affiliated with PA, nor am I spamming for them-- just wanted to pass along a good offer.

[Radek 73]

If we compare such (LED based / non-HWS) red dot + 3x (or 5x) magnifier, how is this functionally different than, for example, a 1-4x illuminated reticle scope? Of course, with a scope, one can't just use a red-dot, but at 1x scope setting it's equivalent isn't it?

 

What am I missing? Educate me.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If we compare such (LED based / non-HWS) red dot + 3x (or 5x) magnifier, how is this functionally different than, for example, a 1-4x illuminated reticle scope? Of course, with a scope, one can't just use a red-dot, but at 1x scope setting it's equivalent isn't it?

 

What am I missing? Educate me.

 

Wha?

[bbk 188]

Most 1-4x variable power scopes in 1x setting aren't actually true 1x... they can deviate from 1.1-1.5x (serious false advertising).

As for the primary difference between a red dot running a 3/5x magnifier compared to a 1-4x variable power is that... well, the 1-4x is variable power, ha. Meaning the variable power scope can shift from 1.1x through 4x (to include 2x, 3x, and everything else in between). A red dot with a 3/5x magnifier only runs at true 1x (without a magnifier), or at 3x or 5x (depending on which magnifier you're running).

[Radek 73]

Most 1-4x variable power scopes in 1x setting aren't actually true 1x... they can deviate from 1.1-1.5x (serious false advertising).

As for the primary difference between a red dot running a 3/5x magnifier compared to a 1-4x variable power is that... well, the 1-4x is variable power, ha. Meaning the variable power scope can shift from 1.1x through 4x (to include 2x, 3x, and everything else in between). A red dot with a 3/5x magnifier only runs at true 1x (without a magnifier), or at 3x or 5x (depending on which magnifier you're running).

 

I get the fixed vs. variable magnification, etc. ... but that's not the crux of my question.

 

Keeping aside magnification ... my question, put differently is ... what's the advantage of a (red dot + 3x magnifier) vs (a 3x illuminated scope)? In addition, a variable scope adds more flexibility, so what's the former setup for?

[bbk 188]

If you want to know the advantages, then use that term and not "functionality"?

 

Ok, so, the advantages of one versus another. I do believe a lot of it is subjective, so, take what I say with a grain of salt-- or consider its application to what you are looking for in an optic.

 

The advantage of having a variable power scope is that while it does not give true 1x, it does give you the flexibility to reach out more accurately at long distances with more clarity. From my experience, and talking with others, many people don't even really use the in-between magnification... either the lowest power, or the highest power. This is a preference thing too, I know, but its just a trend I've seen with a lot of people. Another advantage is that its a scope, meaning aside from illumination, it doesn't require batteries.

The negative thing is that if a person uses only the lowest level of magnification and the highest, why waste the money for a tube that will weigh a good deal more-- and hardly be utilized at its max potential?

 

The advantage of a red dot is that they tend to be far lighter, and are true 1x. This means they are not cumbersome or awkward for up close, and still allow for ease of longer distance shots by utilizing the rifle's BUIS. And then with the addition of a magnifier, a person can then utilize the higher end of magnification-- but with the ability to remove it when not in use (or with some mounting options, it can be flipped to the side).

The main negative is the batteries argument... though, I think its more of a moot point, especially these days with units being able to run for hundreds, if not tens of thousands of hours.

 

Still comes down to preference. Though, the flexibility argument for variable powers can be misleading.

[Radek 73]

I still don't see the advantage in a red dot + magnifier setup, other than being able to take out the magnifier if it's not needed (or flip it out, etc.) ... modern scopes are lighter too. Your post doesn't reveal anything new. Thanks for the reply though. As you said, it's subjective.

 

I think there is simply a coolness factor in people's decisions about optics, more do-dads the better. I like things simple.

 

I will have to just try it myself and decide.

[theRU 33]

I still don't see the advantage in a red dot + magnifier setup, other than being able to take out the magnifier if it's not needed (or flip it out, etc.) ... modern scopes are lighter too. Your post doesn't reveal anything new. Thanks for the reply though. As you said, it's subjective.

 

I think there is simply a coolness factor in people's decisions about optics, more do-dads the better. I like things simple.

 

I will have to just try it myself and decide.

 

Target Aquisition speed is what makes the red dot attractive...that is its purpose.

[bry@n 195]

Correct and when you look quickly through the glass on a red dot, you don't really need to align anything. Where the dot is is where the shot goes.

 

I have glass on my AR and have been thinking of changing.

[bbk 188]

I still don't see the advantage in a red dot + magnifier setup, other than being able to take out the magnifier if it's not needed (or flip it out, etc.) ... modern scopes are lighter too. Your post doesn't reveal anything new. Thanks for the reply though. As you said, it's subjective.

 

I think there is simply a coolness factor in people's decisions about optics, more do-dads the better. I like things simple.

 

I will have to just try it myself and decide.

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Though, regarding weight, I'm sorry, it is a relatively big difference. If you're going to bench-rest shoot it, I guess it doesn't matter if the glass + mount is around a 20+oz (at the lightest... some going up to around 27-30+oz total) compared to a red dot and magnifier that would probably weigh in around 10oz.