Tokarev Conversion Barrel for 1911 in 9mm/38Super

[lunker 274]

I haven't tried this, but JG Sales is a reputable company. Tokarev ammo is about 10cents/round. Cheap and fun plinking conversion.

 

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/products_id/5619

[matt6669 71]

Maybe if I had a RIA or something, but no way is that going into the DW LOL

 

I may have to buy a 9mm RIA though to entertain this idea.

[JonF 79]

Naturally i have a kit on the way...

 

I had been following Kris the gunsmiths' blog and ArfCom thread for a while before this dropped and was happy to see its finally come to fruition. I don't have a pistol yet so i'm still in the planning stages. I'm waffling between a nice gun like a PM9 or a beater Taurus. Either way i want a SS donor for cleaning purposes.

 

To be able to shoot non-reloaded ammo for .10c a shot out of a nice pistol with good ergo's, match sights and endless aftermarket goodies is awesome. While this sounds great, its not without its faults. Tok ammo is actual too long in C.O.A.L. for even 38super mags (like 2mm too long). This means your rounds are going to ride at an angle and you can only get 4-6 loaded in the mag before they just begin to bind due to the friction. There is nothing currently available or supplied to overcome this so there are some other creative options. Some folks have been reloading the cases, mexican match style, at a shorter OAL and some folks have even set back factory ammo which is dangerous and NOT advised. I plan on trying to modify the magazine in various ways to make the follower ride at an angle to see if i can get them to feed freely. Others have discussed bending or stretching the mag to get more clearance but then they run into mag well clearance issues so you would need to start grinding on your frame to accommodate.

 

You must use either a 9mm or 38 super gun as a base so that the breech face matches the tok case. Generally the manufacturers make a common slide for both calibers since they are so close in size that it tends to work for both. Optimally, if you can find a slide with a specific 9mm breech face, it more closely matches the tok shell base diameter since its also rimless, whereas the 38 super is semi-rimmed and slightly larger. 9mm specific slides are hard to find and i'm not sure who (if any) makes them. Not saying 38 super won't work, but for the best extraction, theoretically 9mm would be better. You also need a traditional non-ramped barrel which is sometimes hard to find in the smaller calibers. Ramped barrels are typically employed for 38super for extra case support (think glock style KB) so there is a bit of a built in quandary.

 

FYI, he's experimenting with a G20 in the same way but that has some fundamental issues with the heavy hammer/striker spring and the Glock DA style cocking mechanism so the future of that is unclear.

 

Kris' 1911 Tokarev project blog

http://jggunsmith.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/the-tokarev-projects/

 

His ArfCOM thread

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=85236

[mipafox 438]

10 cents a round is a little high, 7 cents is available.

 

There is a guy selling Tok barrels for M11/9 and MAX-11 on Uzitalk. I'm thinking of getting one. If it gets popular, we will rip through a lot of ammo.

 

Not sure if it's legal to have images of real guns on your computer in NJ, but here is the genesis of the latest craze:

 

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56015

 

People are also shooting this stuff in M16s, which I do not plan to do.

 

I know there is so much Tok out there that it will last forever. Well, LOL. We've heard that before. Several thousand rounds will only cost a couple hundred, stock up now if you plan on doing this.

 

I don't sell ammo or have any interest with any dealer or seller. Just sayin', many of us have been around for a while and seen surplus that aint made anymore (for military) come and go over time.

[JonF 79]

7 cents, 10 cents, whats the difference. Any reasonably obtainable centerfire ammo in that price range is a bargain hence the growing popularity of using it in other more modern platforms.

 

In fact I have one of those CNC guns parts AR Tok uppers and it runs great!

[mipafox 438]

7 cents, 10 cents, whats the difference. Any reasonably obtainable centerfire ammo in that price range is a bargain hence the growing popularity of using it in other more modern platforms.

 

In fact I have one of those CNC guns parts AR Tok uppers and it runs great!

 

Well, it would be the difference between spending $300 on a case of 5.56 or $428.57 on a case of 5.56. In other words, the difference is hundreds to thousands of dollars a year. A difference I take into account when considering spending money on aftermarket caliber conversions.

[JonF 79]

My point, and the general theme here, wasn't to split hairs of the amortization of the shooting expenses of reduced cost caliber conversions. Rather the illustrate the general point of a cheaper alternative. BTW, where are you buying for .07c delivered? As long as its not Bulgarian, I want to get me some.

[mipafox 438]

My point, and the general theme here, wasn't to split hairs of the amortization of the shooting expenses of reduced cost caliber conversions. Rather the illustrate the general point of a cheaper alternative. BTW, where are you buying for .07c delivered? As long as its not Bulgarian, I want to get me some.

 

As stated, I don't have a Tok barrel for any firearm. I think if you check the link I posted you will find something. Or sign up, ask those guys, and you certainly will.

 

MY point was simply to say, don't expect this stuff to be around forever. That has never happened before, but I assume there is always room for an exception. And I pointed out it is cheaper than you said.

 

My response to you was price certainly makes a massive difference. Just because it's cheaper than what I shoot, doesn't mean it's worth it to switch. For instance, I don't shoot steel cased ammo. That is cheaper than what I shoot, and would be an easy switch. In my case, changing calibers is not a simple matter, and not without potential negatives.

[JonF 79]

Sure, nothing is forever and with this old surplus, its kind of an implicit detail that we all must realize before throwing our hard earned duckets at more and more toys. However, whether you pay 7 or 10 cents/round for x25 (and typical street price is towards the latter, trust me, i shoot a lot of this stuff), its still a bargain compared to even bulk rate factory 9mm at the present. No one can dispute that. You can make up the difference in less than 2 cases of ammo if you already have the donor gun and you're counting the beans. However, this conversion is purely a novelty at this point so while its important to be wary of the costs, its not for your average joe.

[mipafox 438]

Sure, nothing is forever and with this old surplus, its kind of an implicit detail that we all must realize before throwing our hard earned duckets at more and more toys. However, whether you pay 7 or 10 cents/round for x25 (and typical street price is towards the latter, trust me, i shoot a lot of this stuff), its still a bargain compared to even bulk rate factory 9mm at the present. No one can dispute that. You can make up the difference in less than 2 cases of ammo if you already have the donor gun and you're counting the beans. However, this conversion is purely a novelty at this point so while its important to be wary of the costs, its not for your average joe.

 

Good. Enjoy it! I hope to as well. Maybe I'll sell you some ammo

[Maksim 1,504]

I was all gun ho about this... until I saw that it does not work with feed ramp guns, ie Smith Pro series.... although I may consider a Taurus in 38 super for this.... But how many rounds will it hold? The link says 4 to 6? Seriously? And just how much fit and finishing is required?

[JonF 79]

Yeah, the mag capacity thing is a bit of a downer. I will try to experiment with different things to get the capacity up. My ultimate goal is to eventually buy some extended Chip Mccormicks and use this for some matches. The Taurus 38 super SS is a cheap option... CDNN is selling them for $450 and i got a quote for a bit over $500 out the door for a new one from a vendor here. Unfortunately RIA doesn't do stainless and Colt isn't cheap.

[matt6669 71]

But on the otherhand, you can reload 9mm FMJ ammo for around 11 cents a round so technically this wouldn't really be a "cost saver" option. Also if you buy in bulk, that 11 cents a round could feasibly be brought down to around 9ish cents a round

[mipafox 438]

But on the otherhand, you can reload 9mm FMJ ammo for around 11 cents a round so technically this wouldn't really be a "cost saver" option. Also if you buy in bulk, that 11 cents a round could feasibly be brought down to around 9ish cents a round

 

We're up to 11 cents? Now we are talking about paying $471 for a case of 5.56 versus paying $300

 

But it is good to see people evaluating cost of shooting when deciding whether or not it's worthwhile.

[djg0770 481]

for $10 more, you can buy a whole gun that uses 7.62x25 - it seems foolish to me to try to re-engineer a 1911, have only 6 rounds or so in a mag, etc.

 

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/yugo-tokarev-m57-tt%2C-7-62x25-m-57-pistol-very-good-condition-/products_id/4432

[mipafox 438]

Yeah, the mag capacity thing is a bit of a downer. I will try to experiment with different things to get the capacity up. My ultimate goal is to eventually buy some extended Chip Mccormicks and use this for some matches. The Taurus 38 super SS is a cheap option... CDNN is selling them for $450 and i got a quote for a bit over $500 out the door for a new one from a vendor here. Unfortunately RIA doesn't do stainless and Colt isn't cheap.

 

4 to 6 rounds? You're going to work on it? That would certainly be a deal killer to me. With that limit on mag capacity, you must be shooting for accuracy. Which would call the choice of ammo into question.

 

Then again, I always respect anybody up for a good gun project!!! Just not much of a tinkerer myself. Except when it comes to full auto. I always consider the pros and cons for full auto guns since they cost so much to shoot and buying a different one in a different caliber is too expensive!

[djg0770 481]

10 cents a round is a little high, 7 cents is available.

 

 

LINK? If you mean J&G, you'd better add the $38 they charge for shipping for one spam can, which puts the dollars per round right around $0.10

IF you order 3 cans, the price drops to 8.2 cents per round

[mipafox 438]

LINK? If you mean J&G, you'd better add the $38 they charge for shipping for one spam can, which puts the dollars per round right around $0.10

IF you order 3 cans, the price drops to 8.2 cents per round

 

You spend around $90 on ammo and expect a deal? It costs me roughly $300 for every case of ammo I buy. And you got more rounds for your ~ $90.

 

I posted a link. Go to UziTalk and ask.

 

If I could get 5.56 cheaper at 5K rounds, I would buy it that way. You will find like minded people there at UziTalk.

 

If you have less than $100 to spend on ammo then I'm not sure why you'd bother to complain. How much do you spend on .223 at that price? Must be horrible. I don't shoot Tok. If you want cheap ammo, go check. And bring your checkbook. Maybe it is 8 cents. That might change my decision to buy a barrel for my MAX-11.

[JonF 79]

But on the otherhand, you can reload 9mm FMJ ammo for around 11 cents a round so technically this wouldn't really be a "cost saver" option. Also if you buy in bulk, that 11 cents a round could feasibly be brought down to around 9ish cents a round

but that's extra work. I'm not putting a specific price tag on my free time, but it is valuable in a way that i must decide where to prioritize its expenditure.

[mipafox 438]

but that's extra work. I'm not putting a specific price tag on my free time, but it is valuable in a way that i must decide where to prioritize its expenditure.

I keep toying with the idea myself. Some of my friends do. It's funny, around these parts, the more people shoot the less likely they are to reload. That certainly does not hold around the country as a whole. There are lots of people out there that massively reload for shooting metric shitons of ammo. I just don't know any of them personally around these parts. Of course, you can't beat it for accuracy.

 

Buying the Tok barrel for my MAX-11 will be tons of extra work. I'm going to buy a few mags that will not work out of the box for $40 each. If I can get the thing to work (far more work), then I have to make mags myself from Sten mags. And then hope those work. It is going to be a big commitment.

 

The M16 is easier on paper but the uppers are not designed for FA so that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms. Don’t want to go through that again and worry about corrosive ammo.

[JonF 79]

for $10 more, you can buy a whole gun that uses 7.62x25 - it seems foolish to me to try to re-engineer a 1911, have only 6 rounds or so in a mag, etc.

 

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/yugo-tokarev-m57-tt%2C-7-62x25-m-57-pistol-very-good-condition-/products_id/4432

Call us fools, call us dreamers, call us tinkerers, but sometimes we do things because of an emotional decision because of some enchantment of a thing. Besides, i already have "that" gun.

[JonF 79]

You spend around $90 on ammo and expect a deal? It costs me roughly $300 for every case of ammo I buy. And you got more rounds for your ~ $90.I posted a link. Go to UziTalk and ask.If I could get 5.56 cheaper at 5K rounds, I would buy it that way. You will find like minded people there at UziTalk.If you have less than $100 to spend on ammo then I'm not sure why you'd bother to complain. How much do you spend on .223 at that price? Must be horrible. I don't shoot Tok. If you want cheap ammo, go check. And bring your checkbook. Maybe it is 8 cents. That might change my decision to buy a barrel for my MAX-11.

 

HEY! Do you own homework!

 

I keep toying with the idea myself. Some of my friends do. It's funny, around these parts, the more people shoot the less likely they are to reload. That certainly does not hold around the country as a whole. There are lots of people out there that massively reload for shooting metric shitons of ammo. I just don't know any of them personally around these parts. Of course, you can't beat it for accuracy.Buying the Tok barrel for my MAX-11 will be tons of extra work. I'm going to buy a few mags that will not work out of the box for $40 each. If I can get the thing to work (far more work), then I have to make mags myself from Sten mags. And then hope those work. It is going to be a big commitment.The M16 is easier on paper but the uppers are not designed for FA so that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms. Don’t want to go through that again and worry about corrosive ammo.

Get the M16 upper. The builder himself sells them in a full auto variant and shoots it that way himself. I have about 1K rounds through mine and no signs of corrosion. The barrel is stainless and i drop the bolt in a tub of water based cleaner after a session and then swab the barrel with MPro7 and never have any issues. Its so easy to clean up after shooting any corrosive ammo, its not worth worrying about. The key is to clean it promptly. If that's an issue, then it should factor strongly in your decision.

[mipafox 438]

HEY! Do you own homework!

 

You are the one paying 10 cents a round for Tok. I don't shoot Tok.

 

 

Get the M16 upper. The builder himself sells them in a full auto variant and shoots it that way himself. I have about 1K rounds through mine and no signs of corrosion. The barrel is stainless and i drop the bolt in a tub of water based cleaner after a session and then swab the barrel with MPro7 and never have any issues. Its so easy to clean up after shooting any corrosive ammo, its not worth worrying about. The key is to clean it promptly. If that's an issue, then it should factor strongly in your decision.

 

Like I said, I thought about it. The SS barrel means nothing to me. I'm not worried about the upper. I'd be worried about the lower. And "The key is to clean it promptly" does not work well for me either. The real key is that buying an upper is not the end of it for FA.

 

You are the guy that just said reloading is "extra work." Try playing with all this stuff in FA. You're not even willing to reload ammo. I don't blame you. It's just an example, everybody has their own thing they don't want to bother with. I'm pretty sure I'll do it on MAX-11. Thanks for the info on the upper. Hmmm....... don't tease me like that

[JonF 79]

You are the one paying 10 cents a round for Tok. I don't shoot Tok.

 

FYI, I actually pay more like 8 cents a round since i buy in multi-case bulk. .10c is a convenient round number that i use for general comparison.

 

 

Like I said, I thought about it. The SS barrel means nothing to me. I'm not worried about the upper. I'd be worried about the lower. And "The key is to clean it promptly" does not work well for me either. The real key is that buying an upper is not the end of it for FA.

 

You are the guy that just said reloading is "extra work." Try playing with all this stuff in FA. You're not even willing to reload ammo. I don't blame you. It's just an example, everybody has their own thing they don't want to bother with. I'm pretty sure I'll do it on MAX-11. Thanks for the info on the upper. Hmmm....... don't tease me like that

 

What are the additional concerns surrounding the lower? I have no experience with FA ownership so gimme the scoop!

 

I actually do reload several calibers including 9mm which like the youngin Matt said, costs roughly 10 cents a round to load. I find that i spend about as much time reloading the ammo as shooting it so i have to choose wisely what i plan on doing with that ammo. Expensive big bore revolver ammo? no brainer, reload. 45acp? another expensive one, reload. 9mm for my shooting matches? i reload, but only because of the volume i go through and the brass i can recoup. I suppose if i shot a lot of FA, i don't think i could realistically and sanely keep up with the demand unless i had a camdex machine. What sort of shooting do you do with all these machine guns?

[Maksim 1,504]

I am thinking mag capacity may be due to the bottleneck cartridge... and the angle it would be under ?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

The concerns about the lower are because since thats the registered full auto part, thats the $15k part and he doesnt want to chance losing it.

[djg0770 481]

You spend around $90 on ammo and expect a deal? It costs me roughly $300 for every case of ammo I buy. And you got more rounds for your ~ $90.

 

I posted a link. Go to UziTalk and ask.

 

If I could get 5.56 cheaper at 5K rounds, I would buy it that way. You will find like minded people there at UziTalk.

 

If you have less than $100 to spend on ammo then I'm not sure why you'd bother to complain. How much do you spend on .223 at that price? Must be horrible. I don't shoot Tok. If you want cheap ammo, go check. And bring your checkbook. Maybe it is 8 cents. That might change my decision to buy a barrel for my MAX-11.

 

Is your name Ricardo Cabeza? I think I know you...

[Old School 611]

But on the otherhand, you can reload 9mm FMJ ammo for around 11 cents a round so technically this wouldn't really be a "cost saver" option. Also if you buy in bulk, that 11 cents a round could feasibly be brought down to around 9ish cents a round

 

Surprizingly I agree with you Matt!!!!!! These cheapskates just want to shoot up cheap ammo so it goes bang... Unreliable compromise.

 

Buy firecrakers and have fun. They make alot of noise!!

[djg0770 481]

Call us fools, call us dreamers, call us tinkerers, but sometimes we do things because of an emotional decision because of some enchantment of a thing. Besides, i already have "that" gun.

 

I can understand building something to say you built it. That makes sense from a build perspective - financially, not so much.

[lunker 274]

Surprizingly I agree with you Matt!!!!!! These cheapskates just want to shoot up cheap ammo so it goes bang... Unreliable compromise.

 

Buy firecrakers and have fun. They make alot of noise!!

 

I don't get it. The 7.62x25 Tokarev is an accurate, magnum powered round. It can be fired from a multitude of well built, all steel, inexpensive surplus Eastern Bloc firearms. You have precision and power in a reliable platform. Better still, you have factory ammunition that can be bought for the same price as the least expensive reloaded common caliber (9mm). To me that is the best of all worlds. And if I had very limited finances, I would buy a Tok pistol before I bought a Lorcin or a Hi-Point.

Add to that the mechanical inquisitiveness and love of experimentation of many firearms owners, and you have these new hybrids. No one looks down on people who like to tinker on their cars. Why should it be different with firearms? An AR chambered in Tok, a conversion barrel to run Tok out of a Glock 20/21 or 1911, what's cooler than that? But then again, I am a tinkerer.