I need to Vent

[SAR in FL 2]

I was a life long resident of this "great" state for my first 47 years on this planet. I've always had an interest in firearms but never owned one and never paid attention to our gun laws. Then my wife and I bought a place in Florida last winter and we established residency. I made some friends who like to go to the range and shoot. So I joined them and was instantly hooked. I took a class, applied for my Concealed Weapon and Firearm License and bought a Glock 17. 90 days later I received my CWFL. It was completely legal for me to carry my weapon concealed on my person whenever I went out. The Glock was way too big to comfortably carry so I purchased a Ruger LCP and a nice OWB holster. I felt good. I knew I was in control of my own safety and could defend myself if needed.

 

Now I'm back in NJ and I can't believe the laws here! Can anyone offer an explanation as to how NJ law supersedes The United State Constitution??? This has probably been discussed on this board hundreds of times but I needed to vent.

 

I read the Muller v. Maenza complaint and it seems to have merit. I actually can't wait for it to lose in the courts so it can go on appeal to the Supreme Court where I think it'll have a chance. The thing that really burns me up is the term "justifiable need". Maybe I don't presently have a justifiable need to carry a gun at this very moment, but what if I'm attacked in the parking lot of the mall or my wife is grabbed outside the supermarket? I believe those qualify as justifiable needs. I'm a law abiding, good guy and I want my 2nd and 14th Amendment rights restored.

 

I know you all agree and thanks for reading. I'll do my part to assist each and every one of you in getting these rights returned!

[Malsua 1,422]

Stay in Florida, seriously. There's nothing here except high taxes, traffic and toxic waste.

[SpecialK 193]

I read the Declaration of Independence almost daily to make it through life here. Lots of good stuff in the opening about what we should be doing to fix this.

[Bob B 103]

Welcome back. Your story is very common and seems to be happening more and more as NJ residents wake up to the fact that we have a different set of rights than the rest of the country.

 

If you are serious about assisting, there are three organizations that are actively "in the fight" in NJ. The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) is a national organization that initiates high level lawsuits seeking to invalidate key components of bad gun law (think Heller v. DC, McDonald v. Chicago and Muller v. Maenza, among others). The Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC) is the state affiliate of the NRA (that does not mean that they are the NRA but they have a close relationship). They are a state level organization that is more geared towards recreation and competition related activities, but they have also initiated some important lawsuits. They are currently involved in three, Revell v. Port Authority, xxxxxx v. xxxxxx (a challenge to One Gun a Month -- OGAM. I'll find the name and fill it in later), and Muller v. Maenza, which you already know about. There's really no way to help SAF or ANJRPC that I know of other than membership and donations. The third organization is the New Jersey Second Amendment Society (NJ2AS), whose board and staff frequent this forum (including me). NJ2AS is a newer (about 1yr old) organization that was born right here at NJGF and is very active at the grass roots level. We have monthly meetings with high quality guest speakers, meet with legislators, and have recently entered the litigation arena as well (see Operation Establish Compliance link in my signature). We currently are suing the New Jersey State Police for access to their Firearms Application Guidebook so we can see what exactly they are telling the municipality police departments (many of which routinely violate the NJ permitting statutes and administrative code). You can assist NJ2AS by joining, donating, attending the meetings (attendance of the meetings is important because we frequently have State Senators and Assemblymen and a good showing helps our cause), volunteering and possibly being a plaintiff in future lawsuits.

 

We can use all the help we can get.

[hmmjak 2]

it might not even have to go that far. there is a petition for a writ of certiorari that was already filed with the supreme court in the Williams vs Maryland

 

For a link to the thread on here with that topic: Click Here

 

For updates on that petition: Click Here

[Genewarper111 18]

As an FYI .... Muller just won and has been given a permit

 

G

[KpdPipes 388]

:icon_rolleyes:One of these days, I REALLY need to Sticky this.

 

Prior to March 30 (??) 2010, NJ's laws in fact did NOT violate the US Constitution, as the US Constitution exists SOLELY to provide limits to the power of the FEDERAL GOVT. The States were supposed to govern themselves through their own, individual State Constitutions. Over the years, as Individual states did in fact infrings upon basic rights, some Ammendments of the USC were "Incorporated" through the 14th Ammendment to also apply to the "Several States" as well as the Federal Govt. Specifically the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Ammendments come to mind.

 

Now NJ did not violate it's OWN State Constitution because there was, and never HAS been a Right to Keep and Bear Arms, in the NJSC..Ever.

 

Prior to Heller V DC Which affirmed that the 2nd was an individual right not a collective one, but was Limited to Federal Jurisdiction only, and followed by McDonald V Chicago, whch then incorporated the 2nd to include the states, ther ewas NOTHING that stopped entire states from enacting total bans of firearms, which would have been 100% legal Constitutionally.

 

The problem we face now, is that SCOTUS did allow the language stating that "Reasonable" restrictions were allowed...without defining exactly what constitutes "Reasonable". That leaves us where we are now. the legislature says that NJ's laws meet the standard of "Reasonable" and we, as Gun Owners Disagree with them. There are only 2 methods to resolve this, through a re-write of the applicable Statutes, or through Court actions. NJ Politicans for the last 5 decades have been ever-increasingly anti-gun, even the "Republicans", we, as Gun owners, and shooters compromise a relatively Small segment of the population. We are also NOT a Homogenous group. Some of Each particular discipline doesnt see the problem with Limiting "Those Guys'" Guns..because after all it doesnt affect MY Trap Gun. Huntng Gun, NRA Distance Rifle, Ect ad Nauseum. The Lawsuits by the 2nd Ammendment Foundation (SAF) and the Association of NJ Rifle and Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC/NRA) will in time yeild decisions on a federal level that the lawmakers here will no longer be able to Ignore....although i do take a someqhat perverse delight in the image of our Esteemed Attorney general being leg out of the Statehouse by Federal MArshals for violating the Civil Rights of the citizens of this state...but I doubt we'd ever actually see it happen.

[The Dark Knight 11]

Stay in Florida, seriously. There's nothing here except high taxes, traffic and toxic waste.

 

And there's nothing in Florida besides the highest foreclosure rate in the nation, the highest number of abandoned or vacant houses in the nation, and a shortage of jobs that is likely unprecedented.

 

People from FL love to talk crap about NJ, but there's a reason so many of them are moving back to NJ. Say what you want, feel what you want, but an AR-15 and CCW permit aren't worth jack if you don't have a roof over your head.

[Dan 177]

We feel your pain

 

Join the various organizations that are actually doing something:

 

SAF, ANJRPC, NJ2AS

[SAR in FL 2]

:icon_rolleyes:One of these days, I REALLY need to Sticky this.

 

Prior to March 30 (??) 2010, NJ's laws in fact did NOT violate the US Constitution, as the US Constitution exists SOLELY to provide limits to the power of the FEDERAL GOVT. The States were supposed to govern themselves through their own, individual State Constitutions. Over the years, as Individual states did in fact infrings upon basic rights, some Ammendments of the USC were "Incorporated" through the 14th Ammendment to also apply to the "Several States" as well as the Federal Govt. Specifically the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Ammendments come to mind.

 

Now NJ did not violate it's OWN State Constitution because there was, and never HAS been a Right to Keep and Bear Arms, in the NJSC..Ever.

 

Prior to Heller V DC Which affirmed that the 2nd was an individual right not a collective one, but was Limited to Federal Jurisdiction only, and followed by McDonald V Chicago, whch then incorporated the 2nd to include the states, ther ewas NOTHING that stopped entire states from enacting total bans of firearms, which would have been 100% legal Constitutionally.

 

The problem we face now, is that SCOTUS did allow the language stating that "Reasonable" restrictions were allowed...without defining exactly what constitutes "Reasonable". That leaves us where we are now. the legislature says that NJ's laws meet the standard of "Reasonable" and we, as Gun Owners Disagree with them. There are only 2 methods to resolve this, through a re-write of the applicable Statutes, or through Court actions. NJ Politicans for the last 5 decades have been ever-increasingly anti-gun, even the "Republicans", we, as Gun owners, and shooters compromise a relatively Small segment of the population. We are also NOT a Homogenous group. Some of Each particular discipline doesnt see the problem with Limiting "Those Guys'" Guns..because after all it doesnt affect MY Trap Gun. Huntng Gun, NRA Distance Rifle, Ect ad Nauseum. The Lawsuits by the 2nd Ammendment Foundation (SAF) and the Association of NJ Rifle and Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC/NRA) will in time yeild decisions on a federal level that the lawmakers here will no longer be able to Ignore....although i do take a someqhat perverse delight in the image of our Esteemed Attorney general being leg out of the Statehouse by Federal MArshals for violating the Civil Rights of the citizens of this state...but I doubt we'd ever actually see it happen.

 

I knew I should have paid more attention in Civics class! Thank you for your well thought out response. I NEED to get involved and help you guys fight for our rights!!!

[I saw nothing 3]

And there's nothing in Florida besides the highest foreclosure rate in the nation, the highest number of abandoned or vacant houses in the nation, and a shortage of jobs that is likely unprecedented.

 

People from FL love to talk crap about NJ, but there's a reason so many of them are moving back to NJ. Say what you want, feel what you want, but an AR-15 and CCW permit aren't worth jack if you don't have a roof over your head.

 

...and a gun in your safe at home ain't worth jack_____ when a criminal has a gun to your head. I'll take freedom with less stuff over tyranny with the illusion of stuff any day regardless of the circumstances.