scotus to decide on carry

[KpdPipes 388]

No, because of him machine guns are $20,000+

 

Unless you count MACs, then you too can have your very own piece of junk ghetto "choppa" for the paltry sum of $3,500

Which you couldnt have in NJ ANYWAY..so being pissed about 922(o) is just about stupid for any NJ resident.

[KpdPipes 388]

people that actually own "machine guns" dont usually advertise

Not so..people OUTSIDE NJ who own machineguns, which are legal in the majority of the US arent afraid of letting it be known.. While i DO get annoyed with Mipa's "I can have an MG and you peasants in NJ cant Nyaaa Nyaa Nyaa" crap.he IS in Pa, so he IS one of the "Cool Kids"..that said to me its about the same as someone constantly prattling to the guy who's blind about how utterly gorgeous the sunset is.

[mipafox 438]

Not so..people OUTSIDE NJ who own machineguns, which are legal in the majority of the US arent afraid of letting it be known.. While i DO get annoyed with Mipa's "I can have an MG and you peasants in NJ cant Nyaaa Nyaa Nyaa" crap.he IS in Pa, so he IS one of the "Cool Kids"..that said to me its about the same as someone constantly prattling to the guy who's blind about how utterly gorgeous the sunset is.

 

I can't deny it. I'm here for all purposes. Contributing, self-serving, providing good ideas, being petty, helping out, supportive, inspiration, showing off, perspiration, medical reasons.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Thank's for the backup

 

To be fair to the guy, it is a real handful in stock form. But, if you train, it can be mastered. I think he was referring to that experience by other people since he has no idea what he is talking about.

 

I just wanted to point out that, contrary to popular New Jersey ignorant opinion, it is probably the best value in transferable MGs once you consider the Lage uppers and the fact that you can shoot any pistol caliber on the planet out of it, depending upon your configuration, and including 7.62x25 in my case. Coming from a guy with more than one machinegun. God forbid, but I would probably sell far more expensive guns before I got to this one.

 

No problem, good times had by all.

 

But that MAC was cherry. I liked it a lot.

 

Vid time!!!!

 

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Not so..people OUTSIDE NJ who own machineguns, which are legal in the majority of the US arent afraid of letting it be known.. While i DO get annoyed with Mipa's "I can have an MG and you peasants in NJ cant Nyaaa Nyaa Nyaa" crap.he IS in Pa, so he IS one of the "Cool Kids"..that said to me its about the same as someone constantly prattling to the guy who's blind about how utterly gorgeous the sunset is.

 

You could leave NJ for a day trip and go shoot a few. It's a lot of fun. In fact, shooting full-auto was the most fun I've had shooting to date. Nothing has yet to come close... maybe when the Army sends me out to HOTEX and I get to try some infantry goodies.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yeah FOPA was bad..FOPA Allowed you to travel between states with your Guns, FOPA Allowed you to buy ammo mail order, FOPA did a LOT..the ONLY negative about FOPA was the Hughes amendment, which everyone ASSUMED would be easily overturned, and which had been put there as a ploy to get FOPA vetoed. Reagan surprised the dems by signing it.., and the Community failed in getting 922(o) repealed

 

This is ultimately the case. However, the way things are going in this nation, the community is winning little by little on this.

[mipafox 438]

LOL, those vids are great!

 

I swear the vids are almost as good as doing it, but much cheaper

 

You guys suck at M16. Fairly good with M11 Need to work a little more on M16 next time. I know the situation was a little awkward, but we can probably pull it together next time if we discuss what we plan to do in advance.

[Jon 264]

Having enjoyed the MAC and M16, I can say that Ed is an awesome guy to hang and shoot with, and his internet persona is strictly that. BTW when can I come join ya at an outdoor range?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

LOL, those vids are great!

 

I swear the vids are almost as good as doing it, but much cheaper

 

You guys suck at M16. Fairly good with M11 Need to work a little more on M16 next time. I know the situation was a little awkward, but we can probably pull it together next time if we discuss what we plan to do in advance.

 

Yeah man, I'm always down for another trip out to freedom/fun country.

[mipafox 438]

Trying to address the two of you in one fell swoop,

 

It's always easy to meet you at a range but it's harder to shoot NFA outside. Full Auto is not allowed at most outdoor ranges. Most of the time I shoot NFA outside it's with other NFA friends, seats are limitted and on a rotating basis, and guest are few if any.

 

There's going to be a party in October and most anything goes on the line, but time on the line will be limitted due to the large number of people. I think I want to get you guys to the party to meet some people and that will make shooting in PA easier going forward. If you don't hear back from me, please make sure you remind me by September 30 via PM, email, or phone. Don't be afraid to remind me.

[Jon 264]

Will do boss

[vladtepes 1,060]

It's a little new to me in practice of personal ownership, only a few years. I spent most of my life in NJ. But, I can assure you, it is rediculous to say that people with NFA weapons do not participate in the NFA community. If that were true, MACs would indeed be a wild beast that is difficult to tame. But, they would not be $3500, nor even $2500 with can, they would be $1000. For a machinegun. Today, not 20 years ago. The reason SOME idiots pay $3500 for them is Richard Lage. They aint your grandpa's MACs anymore. They are highly sought, and I highly recommend them as an entry level MG. If you buy them stock, start with 3 rounds in the mag and work your way up 1 round at a time Most are a real beast in stock config and require a little experience. Make sure you let entire mags run by the end of the day. Nobody ever learned to fire FA by firing burst. Matter of fact, nobody ever learned to fire burst by firing burst. Firing burst simply trains you to press the trigger and let the weapon move off target with each shot. Burst does not allow time for you to learn to control FA. You need to shoot long strings to learn to fire any FA, including burst.

 

There is no longer a waiting list for the basic Lage uppers, so you can shoot them right out of the box. No training need for those, they were designed to win subgun matches. But, the guy is crafty and now he's got .22 uppers and uppers that shoot suomi mags and five years from now you'll have to buy his new thing I hate that bastard. But, I love him

 

I will admit I have had mixed feelings about you at times.. in fact there was a moment in time when I thought you were a complete dick.. I have since revisited that decision and decided you seem to be a pretty cool guy.. cocky? yes... full of yourself? maybe a little.. but at the end of the day.. all things aside.. you really seem pretty cool.. inviting people to shoots and all.. that is good stuff..

 

as for FA and all that.. I think you are %100 correct.. I have VERY LIMITED FA experience.. and I must say it was surprising how difficult it was to stay on target at first.. definitely does take a lot of getting used to.. loading out the mags lightly in the beginning is probably good advice.. the first mag I ever shot in FA was fully loaded 30 round mag.. and as careful as I was.. the last shots of the mag were really creeping high... well over the target.. so there is definitely a learning curve..

[Z71 4]

what happened to the topic i started...17 on topic replies then it turned to 25 machine gun posts.....maybe the mods can delete

my original and corresponding posts and change the topic title due to lack of interest..I thought the group would be interested in a case where

carrying outside the home and how the 2A would apply, a case that has the best chance to date of being heard by scotus....nothing wrong with the MG convo but it should have been a different thread..

[vladtepes 1,060]

what happened to the topic i started...17 on topic replies then it turned to 25 machine gun posts.....maybe the mods can delete

my original and corresponding posts and change the topic title due to lack of interest..I thought the group would be interested in a case where

carrying outside the home and how the 2A would apply, a case that has the best chance to date of being heard by scotus....nothing wrong with the MG convo but it should have been a different thread..

 

 

my apologies for my last post.. did not mean to offend by further driving your thread off topic...

[ChrisJM981 924]

what happened to the topic i started...17 on topic replies then it turned to 25 machine gun posts.....maybe the mods can delete

my original and corresponding posts and change the topic title due to lack of interest..I thought the group would be interested in a case where

carrying outside the home and how the 2A would apply, a case that has the best chance to date of being heard by scotus....nothing wrong with the MG convo but it should have been a different thread..

The mod is too busy drooling over shooting a mg to put it back on topic.

 

 

I doubt they will hear the case.

The article said they only need 4 justices to vote to hear the case. Sounds like one less than will vote that 2A applies outside the home to me...

[GtrEinstein 3]

Since NJ does not respect "Castle" doctrine we do not enjoy the liberty of carry in our homes. Can you imagine a criminal in your home using a defense that the gun carried by the homeowner required him to use force to protect himself?

 

Thereby justifying his attack on you or others in the home?

[KpdPipes 388]

Since NJ does not respect "Castle" doctrine we do not enjoy the liberty of carry in our homes. Can you imagine a criminal in your home using a defense that the gun carried by the homeowner required him to use force to protect himself?

 

Thereby justifying his attack on you or others in the home?

 

Considering your apparent lack of Knowledge, I for one find your username rather amusingly ironic. NJ does in fact have a Castle Doctrine, what it does NOT have is anything akin to the "Stand Your Ground" Laws other states have...nor can someone who is committing another offense attempt to use "Self Defense" as an affirmative defense for an assault.

[KpdPipes 388]

what happened to the topic i started...17 on topic replies then it turned to 25 machine gun posts.....maybe the mods can delete

my original and corresponding posts and change the topic title due to lack of interest..I thought the group would be interested in a case where

carrying outside the home and how the 2A would apply, a case that has the best chance to date of being heard by scotus....nothing wrong with the MG convo but it should have been a different thread..

 

 

You do realize however that SCOTUS has NOT even decided if they are going to hear this or not yet? Your Thread title in and of itself is incorrect.

[GtrEinstein 3]

Considering your apparent lack of Knowledge, I for one find your username rather amusingly ironic. NJ does in fact have a Castle Doctrine, what it does NOT have is anything akin to the "Stand Your Ground" Laws other states have...nor can someone who is committing another offense attempt to use "Self Defense" as an affirmative defense for an assault.

 

Your definition of 'Castle' doctrine supports my comment. "Stand Your Ground" is a component of the castle doctrines of other states, not here in NJ.

 

And thanks for the laugh and for insulting me.

 

I greatly appreciate it from some as awesome and knowledgeable as you.

 

Nice use of capitals letters.

 

Glad you like my name.

 

You, sir, are a tool.

[Anselmo 87]

Your definition of 'Castle' doctrine supports my comment. "Stand Your Ground" is a component of the castle doctrines of other states, not here in NJ.

 

And thanks for the laugh and for insulting me.

 

I greatly appreciate it from some as awesome and knowledgeable as you.

 

Nice use of capitals letters.

 

Glad you like my name.

 

You, sir, are a tool.

 

If you have an intruder in your house and you fear for your life/great harm you are justified to use deadly force. What more do you need?

 

You do not need to retreat. Therefore, you may stand your ground. You can legally carry in your house.

[AnthonyG 36]

The issues with home defense in nj is you have to inform the assailant you are armed when THEY break in, you can not pursue them if at any point they retreat. At any point if you feel you have the upper hand or it can be proven you can no longer use deadly force. So I look at it this way, if a perp can get into your house and beat or kill someone before you get to them with your gun and they are fleeing you cant do anything legally. Not to mention your suppose to yell you have a gun on top of that.

[Jon 264]

[if] it can be proven

 

This is the key phrase everyone needs to remember...

[Anselmo 87]

The issues with home defense in nj is you have to inform the assailant you are armed when THEY break in, you can not pursue them if at any point they retreat. At any point if you feel you have the upper hand or it can be proven you can no longer use deadly force. So I look at it this way, if a perp can get into your house and beat or kill someone before you get to them with your gun and they are fleeing you cant do anything legally. Not to mention your suppose to yell you have a gun on top of that.

 

Where is it written that you have to announce that you have a gun? I've never seen anything about that in the law.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

Shiver my timbers, shiver my sails

Dead men tell no tales

[bulpup 98]

The issues with home defense in nj is you have to inform the assailant you are armed when THEY break in, you can not pursue them if at any point they retreat. At any point if you feel you have the upper hand or it can be proven you can no longer use deadly force. So I look at it this way, if a perp can get into your house and beat or kill someone before you get to them with your gun and they are fleeing you cant do anything legally. Not to mention your suppose to yell you have a gun on top of that.

 

if you can't link to the actual law that states this thing about informing someone you are armed then you should retract this post.

[Steve_G 51]

Must be one of those Hollywood laws. The terrified homeowner always says "I have a gun". BG comes in my house the only thing he will hear is a loud boom, right before a .45 Goldot hits him in the chest. I don't understand why anyone would give away their location or give the BG a chance to shoot first.

[Malsua 1,422]

if you can't link to the actual law that states this thing about informing someone you are armed then you should retract this post.

 

There is no law that you must inform an intruder that you are armed.

 

What the poster may be confused with is the wording of the Castle statute. The statute reads thus:

 

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

(2)A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

(a)The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

(b)The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

Notice the OR statement. If immediate harm is imminent, OR you demanded the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw and they did not.

 

If an intruder with a gun in his droopy pants enters your home and proceeds to start unhooking your 55 inch LED tv, there is no immediate threat and you cannot shoot until you demand the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw and they refuse to comply. If the guy breaks the door down, you may immediately take the shot, no warning necessary.

 

If you are standing in your doorway, and an intruder is on your porch, you may "meet the assailant at the threshold of the home and prevent him from entering by any means," (Superior Court in State V Martinez, http://nj.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19890113_0041569.nj.htm/qx)

[KpdPipes 388]

Thanks Mal, beat me to it.

[AnthonyG 36]

I apologize I wasn't trying to quote the law and I should have said it in my post. It was more of me explaining how I think the laws can leave so much room for a lot of injustice and also how to protect yourself legally by the law is quite restricting. Informing them you have a gun would be more beneficial to you legally if you did shoot the person and they survived.It also has the ability to avoid conflict completely which is kind of what the purpose of laws are in general. In a small percentage it could however increase the level of conflict that intruder may feel they have to shoot first because they know your armed.

[Steve_G 51]

I apologize I wasn't trying to quote the law and I should have said it in my post. It was more of me explaining how I think the laws can leave so much room for a lot of injustice and also how to protect yourself legally by the law is quite restricting. Informing them you have a gun would be more beneficial to you legally if you did shoot the person and they survived.It also has the ability to avoid conflict completely which is kind of what the purpose of laws are in general. In a small percentage it could however increase the level of conflict that intruder may feel they have to shoot first because they know your armed.

 

How is it more beneficial legally to inform them? Do you really believe a criminal will tell the truth if they survive? It could cause them to run but, I don't want them to run. My goal is to have them kiss the hardwood and wait until the boys in blue show up with the shiny bracelets. As far as them shooting first, I don't intend to say anything until they are in my sights. That wont give them much of a chance to shoot first.