synthetic 10 round ak mag mod

[dave545 15]

OOOKKK soo u know how whenever you buy a WASR-10 you receive that nubby 10 round synthetic mag, well if you take that mag apart and cut the bottom floor plate down and only leave 1/2 and cut the walls of the follower down and leave about 1/3 on there it will increase the capacity to 14 instead of 10 and i have never had a FTF or FTE with this little mod

[ajtesq 11]

OOOKKK soo u know how whenever you buy a WASR-10 you receive that nubby 10 round synthetic mag, well if you take that mag apart and cut the bottom floor plate down and only leave 1/2 and cut the walls of the follower down and leave about 1/3 on there it will increase the capacity to 14 instead of 10 and i have never had a FTF or FTE with this little mod

 

The man speaks the truth. Although on my Saiga 5.45 mags I was only able to fit 2 more rounds, it's still an improvement and I've had no failures either. I find more uses for that Dremel every week.

[dave545 15]

LOL dremels are amazing

also did you cut both pieces? On the follower you ahve to cut down 2/3rds the way and on the floor plate of the mag theres a plastic piece that sticks like 1 1/2 inch up and when you cut that it allows the follower to go all the way down to the floor plate instead of impacting the stopper

[vladtepes 1,060]

what US parts are you adding for 922 compliance?

 

gun is imported with locap mag (10 rounds) does changing capacity effect 922 compliance? MOST of the time when people talk 922 compliance they are talking 30 rounds... but that is just because it is free America..

[dave545 15]

no it does not affect 922 because you are not adding or removing any parts

[vladtepes 1,060]

no it does not affect 922 because you are not adding or removing any parts

 

 

does not matter.. you are altering magazine capacity.. changing it from its imported state..

 

cutting a barrel down does not change parts... but it still creates an SBR and thus a regulated item..

 

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

 

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

 

 

the law says nothing about adding parts.. sporting purpose is generally 10 rounds in these rifles... and everything I have read states 10 rounds, and things like imported configuration..

[dave545 15]

the mag is not imported it is a tapco

[vladtepes 1,060]

the mag is not imported it is a tapco

 

the fact that it is a Tapco mag is moot since it is still being sold in 10 round capacity.. thus not changing the imported configuration of the gun..

 

I am just stating...

 

if the gun is imported in lo capacity (10 round max)

and you alter that..

you are (to my understanding) creating a "non sporting firearm"

thus triggering 922... if it is a US magazine.. that is THREE parts right there.. only need one more to satisfy 922...

 

922 does not revolve (in this instance) about adding parts.. it is more a concern of sporting VS non sporting..

 

this is my understanding of 922.. it is sporting VS non sporting... this has been commented on to death on all of the AK and Saiga info out there..

 

if YOU feel comfortable.. go for it.. I am simply giving my input based on the wording of the law that I quoted.. the plain black and white text.. you are obviously free to do what you like..

[dave545 15]

how is that even possible?

if you purchase an ALTERED 30 round mag down to 15 are you than changing it from a sporting to non sporting because of the mag? the parts in the mag are still U.S. made and therefore not affecting the firearm. it is the same as putting on a 15 round mag that you purchased that was already altered

again . if you throw away the mag it was imported with does it than take away those 3 us parts and make that rifle illegal now???

 

not trying to sound smart or condescending just stating

[vladtepes 1,060]

how is that even possible?

if you purchase an ALTERED 30 round mag down to 15 are you than changing it from a sporting to non sporting because of the mag?

 

YES that is the whole point.. they decide how the gun is reasonable for importation.. pistol grip.. no pistol grip.. 10 round mag.. whatever..

 

THE WAY THE GUN IS IMPORTED is its fair sporting configuration.. meaning that they feel the gun is reasonable for sporting purposes..

 

once you CHANGE that configuration in any way that adds to its "evil nature" or non sporting configuration... pistol grips where there weren't any... 11 round mags when they were imported with 10.. you are CHANGING the gun from its original imported sporting configuration..

 

they can sell you the gun with a US MADE 10 rounder because that is how the gun was imported so even though you are changing parts... you are not modifying its imported sporting configuration.. go to an 11 round mag.. and you just modified the gun from its original imported sporting configuration..

 

I hope that makes sense..

the parts in the mag are still U.S. made and therefore not affecting the firearm.

 

moot point... the origin of parts ONLY matters when calculating 922 compliance on an altered weapon..

 

you could have 10 round mags from any country in the world.. because 10 rounds keeps the gun as it was imported..

go to 11+ and then the country of origin matters because you are playing the parts game to get 10 or less imported parts..

 

it is the magazine capacity that determines sporting or non sporting.. NOT the nation of origin..

 

if you throw away the mag it was imported with does it than take away those 3 us parts and make that rifle illegal now???

 

not trying to sound smart or condescending just stating

NO because the rifle was imported with a 10 round capacity.. 10 round mag from the US.. china... or even one you make in your garage out of cardboard.. has no relevance.. if the gun maintains the original imported capacity there is no change.. and thus it is still sporting.. add an evil feature (PG, change in mag capacity, etc..) you are then changing it to a non sporting rifle.. and must comply with 922..

 

look I am not a lawyer.. or anything special for that matter.. but I am anal about the law.. and I spent a TON of time reading about this due to all my Saigas.. I am pretty sure the answer I am giving (while not one you want to hear) is in fact correct.. read the law yourself.. I quoted a portion of it up top.. the KEY is sporting VS non sporting.. and that is imported configuration VS changes that make it non sporting.. pistol grip.. increase in mag capacity.. these are the most common two...

 

trying to help.. not hurt..

[dave545 15]

IMO what you are saying is even using a 15 round mag, that is making it no longer complaint because it is now no longer for sporting reasons?

[vjf915 456]

IMO what you are saying is even using a 15 round mag, that is making it no longer complaint because it is now no longer for sporting reasons?

.....that's what 11+ means. 11+ includes 11, and any number greater than 11.

[vladtepes 1,060]

IMO what you are saying is even using a 15 round mag, that is making it no longer complaint because it is now no longer for sporting reasons?

 

 

unless of course the gun is imported that way..

 

an increase in magazine capacity.. is an increase.. is an increase.. no matter how you cut it..

[Darkmagik 2]

Okay if you read the 922r compliancy law you can see clearly that the law states there must be x amount of parts that are US made so that the rifle is a sporting magazine right. Therefore if the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate each count as a part making it +3 to the compliancy list it means that you have 3 parts that will make it a sporting model. Thus, if you take your tapco 10 round magazine and switch it for another magazine lets say a 20 round or 30 round tapco magazine I dont care which one it doesn't matter since you have the same +3 parts in either magazine. Bringing the concept of modifing the 10rd magazine to accept more rounds just brings it closer to the 20rd model yet still being within the guidelines of 922 so making a 10rd body accept 14 or 15 or 12 rounds doesn't mean anything what counts is the parts in that magazine so it's again the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate so that mod wouldn't violate the 922r law. Think about it you need x amount of parts to make it legal if you still have those x parts MADE IN THE USA you didn't violate anything they are still MADE IN THE USA and if you want to add you can say MADE AND MODIFIED IN THE USA

[dave545 15]

thats absurd on so many levels lol because the mag limit is 15 in nj so it is still staying within the legal limits and it is still compliant

lol this state is silly

oh well with this 1 i think ill take my chances

[dave545 15]

Okay if you read the 922r compliancy law you can see clearly that the law states there must be x amount of parts that are US made so that the rifle is a sporting magazine right. Therefore if the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate each count as a part making it +3 to the compliancy list it means that you have 3 parts that will make it a sporting model. Thus, if you take your tapco 10 round magazine and switch it for another magazine lets say a 20 round or 30 round tapco magazine I dont care which one it doesn't matter since you have the same +3 parts in either magazine. Bringing the concept of modifing the 10rd magazine to accept more rounds just brings it closer to the 20rd model yet still being within the guidelines of 922 so making a 10rd body accept 14 or 15 or 12 rounds doesn't mean anything what counts is the parts in that magazine so it's again the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate so that mod wouldn't violate the 922r law. Think about it you need x amount of parts to make it legal if you still have those x parts MADE IN THE USA you didn't violate anything they are still MADE IN THE USA and if you want to add you can say MADE AND MODIFIED IN THE USA

agreed and thats what i am saying lol

[Darkmagik 2]

If you talk about the US in general that applies, but the difference with NJ is only the 15 round max so go to PA block a tapco 20 or 30 and your NJ legal and 922r compliant simple it's still the same parts in the magazine I never knew the tapco 10rd magazine has parts made differently from to 20 or 30s

[dave545 15]

i dont think it does but i could be wrong

[Darkmagik 2]

i dont think it does but i could be wrong

 

Tapco markets and sells their magazines as MADE IN THE USA so the 10rd mag that comes with the weapon is made in the us so the 20 or 30 rounders are too if you have doubts about that call or email tapco and ask them directly.

[dave545 15]

see what happens when a state leaves stuff up for interpretation gotta love legalities and the confusions that follows lol

i believe though that this is well within legal terms

[Darkmagik 2]

If the idiots in court try to pull some nonsense crap on the issue I am pretty sure a good NJ gun lawyer will have them throw it out of court if that came to the case

[vladtepes 1,060]

Okay if you read the 922r compliancy law you can see clearly that the law states there must be x amount of parts that are US made so that the rifle is a sporting magazine right. Therefore if the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate each count as a part making it +3 to the compliancy list it means that you have 3 parts that will make it a sporting model. Thus, if you take your tapco 10 round magazine and switch it for another magazine lets say a 20 round or 30 round tapco magazine I dont care which one it doesn't matter since you have the same +3 parts in either magazine. Bringing the concept of modifing the 10rd magazine to accept more rounds just brings it closer to the 20rd model yet still being within the guidelines of 922 so making a 10rd body accept 14 or 15 or 12 rounds doesn't mean anything what counts is the parts in that magazine so it's again the magazine body, the follower, and the baseplate so that mod wouldn't violate the 922r law. Think about it you need x amount of parts to make it legal if you still have those x parts MADE IN THE USA you didn't violate anything they are still MADE IN THE USA and if you want to add you can say MADE AND MODIFIED IN THE USA

 

you have no idea what you are talking about..

 

you are talking about magazine capacity.. but then also talking about making the gun closer to 922 compliant..

 

IF the gun is as it was imported.. 10 round magazine.. the gun does not have to be 922 compliant...

 

922 compliance starts when you CHANGE things..

 

once he changes the magazine capacity THEN then parts game starts.. and you are right.. he DOES have 3 parts closer to compliance.. but unfortunately 3 is not enough.. an imported rifle that is converted to non sporting configuration MUST have 10 foreign parts or less..

 

you are jumbling up two different aspects.. and noting that the mag is US mag.. well where the mag is made ONLY matters if he is trying to be 922 compliant.. so which is it?

 

also for the record.. once you make a 10 round mag hold 14 it is NO LONGER A 10 ROUND MAG. what it started as is moot..

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you talk about the US in general that applies, but the difference with NJ is only the 15 round max so go to PA block a tapco 20 or 30 and your NJ legal and 922r compliant simple it's still the same parts in the magazine I never knew the tapco 10rd magazine has parts made differently from to 20 or 30s

 

 

did you even read my post.. I explain why all of that matters..

 

922 is FEDERAL compliance.. not state compliance.. being NJ legal or not is a moot point.. you are STILL making the rifle NON SPORTING... do you understand what that means? if you do.. please explain how an increase in magazine capacity allows the gun to remain sporting..

 

922 does NOT say "you are ok unless you use 30 round high capacity mags" it DOES say "you are OK unless you make the gun non sporting"

what is non sporting you ask? evil features.. increased mag capacity.. pistol grip.. and flash hider may even be considered non sporting.. but not sure on flash hider..

it is the governments interpretation of what makes the gun a sporting rifle VS a weapon..

[Darkmagik 2]

We were talking about the magazine and their part in the list right so the rest of the rifle and parts that make it 10 foreign parts or less is kind of irrelevant. As in to have a max of 10 foeign parts and lets say the rifle itself has 7 the magazine is important and from what I understand no matter how you cut it the law is it has to be compliant with the magazine it came with or with a different one so what I did talk about before just was to compare parts for parts to go towards the 10 or less foerign parts so if 10 is your number you have 3 parts to add with the rest of the rifle to make 10 or less

[intercooler 41]

IMO what you are saying is even using a 15 round mag, that is making it no longer complaint because it is now no longer for sporting reasons?

that is correct....

if you leave 10rd mags, you are fine, anything more and you MUST be 922r compliant. this is why saiga 12 guys always have to be compliant even if they are still original configuration for drums.

[PK90 3,570]

If the idiots in court try to pull some nonsense crap on the issue I am pretty sure a good NJ gun lawyer will have them throw it out of court if that came to the case

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

We were talking about the magazine and their part in the list right so the rest of the rifle and parts that make it 10 foreign parts or less is kind of irrelevant. As in to have a max of 10 foeign parts and lets say the rifle itself has 7 the magazine is important and from what I understand no matter how you cut it the law is it has to be compliant with the magazine it came with or with a different one so what I did talk about before just was to compare parts for parts to go towards the 10 or less foerign parts so if 10 is your number you have 3 parts to add with the rest of the rifle to make 10 or less

 

 

 

most AK47s have 14 countable parts..

 

use a US magazine.. gets you to 11...

replace ONE other part that gets you to 10..

 

but NOW you are 922 compliant and you can put ANY mag you want on there (up to the state limit..)

[Darkmagik 2]

most AK47s have 14 countable parts..

 

use a US magazine.. gets you to 11...

replace ONE other part that gets you to 10..

 

but NOW you are 922 compliant and you can put ANY mag you want on there (up to the state limit..)

 

That's where I was getting at. For those that want the entire list it is

 

27 C.F.R. 478.89 lists 20 parts:

 

 

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

 

(2) Barrels

 

(3) Barrel extensions

 

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

 

(5) Muzzle attachments

 

(6) Bolts

 

(7) Bolt carriers

 

(8) Operating rods

 

(9) Gas pistons

 

(10) Trigger housings

 

(11) Triggers

 

(12) Hammers

 

(13) Sears

 

(14) Disconnectors

 

(15) Butt stocks

 

(16) Pistol grips

 

(17) Forearms, hand guards

 

(18) Magazine bodies

 

(19) Followers

 

(20) Floorplates

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

That's where I was getting at. For those that want the entire list it is

 

 

there is a link in my signature explaining 922 compliance in a little more detail...

 

but david was saying that with his mod he did not NEED 922 compliance.. which is where all of this started..

[vladtepes 1,060]

that is correct....

if you leave 10rd mags, you are fine, anything more and you MUST be 922r compliant. this is why saiga 12 guys always have to be compliant even if they are still original configuration for drums.

 

+1

yup.... the joke of the day on saiga12 forum is some noob posting his brand new in the box saiga with some obnoxiously huge magazine hanging off the bottom of it.. in fact it is such a long running bunch of stupidity people rarely even comment on it anymore..