Presenting ID to an officer of the law?

[boxjeff 1]

Does anyone know the particulars and laws around Presenting and ID and answering questions when a police officer asks? Something similar to the situation in this video without the gun involved?

 

[KpdPipes 388]

Depends on the individual state and the Individual Situation. in NV for example, you are Required by law to present ID to an officer if asked. NJ OTOH doe not have such a law, although again depending on the situation, a case may be made under the auspices of "Obstructing the Administration of Law". Then again..despite what some folks here would have you believe the majority of cops arent running around asking everyone they see for ID's. If you mean in the case of filming>>I can speak for myself. Film me all you want..but STAY Out of my way.

[boxjeff 1]

Unfortunately, not all officers have your attitude!

Far too many readily and often abuse the authority provided them and insert ego where reason and integrity should reign. In my experience urban areas, such as in Norther NJ, the police have a thug and mob like mentality and are grossly undereducated. While in central, southern and more rural areas police take pride in having ethics and really do want to "Serve and Protect" and not simply "Serve and Protect" their personal interests. I have traveled a large portion of this country and find this theme fits all states except for Alaska...honor is the dominant feature there and police go to extremes to protect citizens.

[KpdPipes 388]

Unfortunately, not all officers have your attitude!

Far too many readily and often abuse the authority provided them and insert ego where reason and integrity should reign. In my experience urban areas, such as in Norther NJ, the police have a thug and mob like mentality and are grossly undereducated. While in central, southern and more rural areas police take pride in having ethics and really do want to "Serve and Protect" and not simply "Serve and Protect" their personal interests. I have traveled a large portion of this country and find this theme fits all states except for Alaska...honor is the dominant feature there and police go to extremes to protect citizens.

Too bad I work in Northern NJ.....

[boxjeff 1]

You can always transfer.... There are some gorgeous and friendly towns along the Delaware.

[KpdPipes 388]

You can always transfer.... There are some gorgeous and friendly towns along the Delaware.

I'm quite happy where I am..funny though how a group which finds it so offensive when someone like the Brady organization paints all firearms owners with a crime committed by someone like Jared Loughner or Seung-hui Cho, finds it acceptable to paint an entire profession on the basis of a relatively small sample of Personal encounters. I deal with a Disproportionate number of scumbags and criminals..yet if i treated everyone I met on that basis, y'all would be calling for my head..yet YOU guys (and there are relatively few here) do it without compunction or even thinking about it. Hypocrisy is a b!tch when it's pointed out...isnt it?

[Soju 153]

Generalizations suck. We know. We get it. It happens all the time, with all types of people, in all professions. Who isn't a hypocrite these days?

[BRaptor 68]

So, to get back on track. It is state-dependent on what information you have to provide a police officer upon questioning. It also depends on whether you are just being questioned, "arrested" or "charged with a crime."

 

Under our constantly-eroding US Constitutional rights, you have NO 4A right of privacy to your:

 

Name

Date of Birth

Identity

Numbers that you call from your telephone

Bank statements/items indicated purchased on your bank statements

 

That's the short list...it gets worse and longer.

 

NJ is quite protective of its citizens and their NJ State Constitutional rights against search and siezure (NJ rights are significantly stronger under its version of the 4A). Sadly, I'm not terribly familiar with them, yet.

[AnthonyG 36]

I can understand people like to invoke their rights but honestly some people go about it in very stupid ways. I dont see the harm in the guy with video camera being a bit nicer just telling the officer his name, not showing any id and explaining its his right to refuse.Whether the cop is a good one or bad one or taking advantage of his position, just be the better person.

[Soju 153]

There is something about not exercising your rights and losing them that is coming to my head but I'm not quite sure what it is.........

[boxjeff 1]

Some groups/individuals spend an inordinate amount of energy explaining their actions and being reactionary/retaliatory. I was sharing my experiences, which tend to be quite broad, as I have been fortunate to travel the country and the world extensively. If your happy where you are so-be-it. But, there's no doubt the towns on the Delaware of central and south NJ are splendid.

 

Now yes, let's get it back on track.

 

How do these rights correspond to what you "must" reveal to a police officer when simply walking/biking down the street or driving and not having committed any offense in NJ?

 

I was chatting with an officer in Washington state and he explained to me that if he asked me for ID simply while I was walking down the street I could tell him to "go pound sand".

 

Same in NJ?

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

Depends on the individual state and the Individual Situation. in NV for example, you are Required by law to present ID to an officer if asked. NJ OTOH doe not have such a law, although again depending on the situation, a case may be made under the auspices of "Obstructing the Administration of Law". Then again..despite what some folks here would have you believe the majority of cops arent running around asking everyone they see for ID's. If you mean in the case of filming>>I can speak for myself. Film me all you want..but STAY Out of my way.

 

This is not correct. There are no states in the US that have a stop and RANDOMLY identify law PERIOD. The police CAN ask for ID, but you can refuse. Now, stop and identify means that IF THE OFFICER suspects you are involved in a criminal act AND has RAS, THEN he can stop and identify. In Nevada, this falls under NRS 171.123 ( http://leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-171.html#NRS171Sec123 )

 

Now, this does NOT mean that police don't do just that, stop anyone they want because they "look" suspicious, but I want to make sure everyone understands...not one of the 50 states has a blatant "stop" and "idenfify" law that gives officers permission to stop anyone.

 

P.S. Even under any of the states' given stop and identify statutes, you have to IDENTIFY yourself, meaning, telling the officer your name is enough. You do NOT have to show ID.

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

 

I was chatting with an officer in Washington state and he explained to me that if he asked me for ID simply while I was walking down the street I could tell him to "go pound sand".

 

Same in NJ?

 

You can do this in all 50 states, legally. However, unless you are filming the officer, he can ruin your day. If you are randomly walking your dog, and a police officer asks you for your ID, feel free to walk right by, or maybe say hello if you are feeling extra friendly, but under no circumstances, in any 50 states, do you HAVE to ID yourself.

[KpdPipes 388]

You can do this in all 50 states, legally. However, unless you are filming the officer, he can ruin your day. If you are randomly walking your dog, and a police officer asks you for your ID, feel free to walk right by, or maybe say hello if you are feeling extra friendly, but under no circumstances, in any 50 states, do you HAVE to ID yourself.

Do it in Nevada then come back and tell us how that went for you

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

Do it in Nevada then come back and tell us how that went for you

 

Read my previous response. I stated that the police can ruin your day, but if a cop tried to do it to me, he would have the next 3 months ruined, wrongful arrest, wrongful detainment, official oppression, and a slew of other complaints. Don't forger who you serve and "protect." I see you don't know the law in your own state. I posted the statute, read up, and do not post wrong information. The people on this forum are better informed than most of the public.

[KpdPipes 388]

Read my previous response. I stated that the police can ruin your day, but if a cop tried to do it to me, he would have the next 3 months ruined, wrongful arrest, wrongful detainment, official oppression, and a slew of other complaints. Don't forger who you serve and "protect." I see you don't know the law in your own state. I posted the statute, read up, and do not post wrong information. The people on this forum are better informed than most of the public.

I'm From NJ...but As i said do whatever you want..Counselor.

[Murphy4570 15]

I'm From NJ...but As i said do whatever you want..Counselor.

 

 

Arguing with a lawyer is a bad idea, they do it for a living!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Arguing with a lawyer is a bad idea, they do it for a living!

 

I didn't think he was a lawyer, but I think he said his wife wand maybe mother were, but I may be thinking of someone else.

 

Harry

[boxjeff 1]

feel free to walk right by, or maybe say hello if you are feeling extra friendly, but under no circumstances, in any 50 states, do you HAVE to ID yourself.

 

Does this mean I still have to tell him my name as I walk by or are you simply referring to having to present ID?

 

 

Anyone have the link to the NJ statute?

[KpdPipes 388]

Arguing with a lawyer is a bad idea, they do it for a living!

So do I..and my "Win" Column is pretty big...but it's neither here nor there.

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

I am NOT a lawyer, but know POLICE law very well, or better yet, laws that POLICE must follow.

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

So do I..and my "Win" Column is pretty big...but it's neither here nor there.

 

Then debate properly, and prove me wrong. I posted a direct statute which ONLY allows a police officer to stop someone IF they have RAS, which in itself, is a very specific thing. Your move sheriff

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

feel free to walk right by, or maybe say hello if you are feeling extra friendly, but under no circumstances, in any 50 states, do you HAVE to ID yourself.

 

Does this mean I still have to tell him my name as I walk by or are you simply referring to having to present ID?

 

 

Anyone have the link to the NJ statute?

 

The word IDENTIFY means you must inform the officer of your identity. The US Supreme Court case (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada) ruled (among other things) that simply stating your name is enough identification, and you have no duty to carry documentation.

 

The Court understood the Nevada statute to mean that a detained person could satisfy the Nevada law by simply stating his name

 

HOWEVER, if the officer has RAS, he may detain you, and/or take you down to the state to fully identify who you are. For instance, if someone robbed a bank nearby, and you happen to match the description of the perp, the officer has RAS, and can detain you, establish your identity, and if you have no actual ID on you, you may be taken down to the station to be identified. However, again, if you are just walking in the park, and the officer blatantly comes up to you and says "may I see your ID" without ANY other warning, greetings, etc etc etc, feel free to keep walking. There is no law that requires you to talk to police. I am personally courteous to police officers, but NOT when they violate my rights. If the officer approaches me in a polite, professional manner, I will respond accordingly.

 

NJ does NOT have a stop and identify statute, so cops can't even ATTEMPT to ask for your ID until AFTER you have been LEGALLY detained.

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

I didn't think he was a lawyer, but I think he said his wife wand maybe mother were, but I may be thinking of someone else.

 

Harry

 

No that is me. My wife, my mother and my brother-in-law are attorneys. I help my brother in law run a legal help website, which answers any legal questions anyone might have.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Ok, so in nj a cop can do a terry stop , this is not a arrest, and he does not need probable cause here's the legal schinanigans I found..... In the United States, a Terry stop is a brief detention of a person by police[1] on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.

 

The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968),[2] in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person whom they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity;[3] the Court also held that police may do a limited search of the suspect’s outer garments for weapons if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person detained may be “armed and dangerous”.[4] When a search for weapons is authorized, the procedure is known as a “stop and frisk”.

 

To have reasonable suspicion that would justify a stop, police must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed.[5] Reasonable suspicion depends on the “totality of the circumstances”,[6] and can result from a combination of facts, each of which is by itself innocuous.[7]

 

The search of the suspect’s outer garments, also known as a patdown, must be limited to what is necessary to discover weapons;[8] however, pursuant to the “plain feel” doctrine, police may seize contraband discovered in the course of a frisk, but only if the contraband’s identity is immediately apparent.[9]

 

In some jurisdictions, persons detained under the doctrine of Terry must identify themselves to police upon request. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177, the Court held that a Nevada statute requiring such identification did not violate the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures, or, in the circumstances of that case, the Fifth Amendment’s privilege against self incrimination.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Then debate properly, and prove me wrong. I posted a direct statute which ONLY allows a police officer to stop someone IF they have RAS, which in itself, is a very specific thing. Your move sheriff

 

Just so we know, is this the tact that you would take if you were asked for your ID?? Just wondering because if it is, it's not directly out out the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"

 

Harry

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Here's some more legal mumbo jumbo

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

[KpdPipes 388]

Cguiro, while it's a lower level than Probable Cause, "Reasonable Suspicion" means there are STILL standards that have to be met, I can't just stop someone and rag-bag them without SOMETHING to go on. there still needs to eb SOME minimal articulable reason for the stop. the Problem arises when someone uses a Terry-type Stop and Frisk to justify locating say a Dime ($10.00) Bag of narcotics. The Terry Exception is designed EXCLUSIVELY for weapons, and there arent too many things 1"X1" square and flat that constitute a "Weapon" if you get my meaning.

[boxjeff 1]

"NJ does NOT have a stop and identify statute, so cops can't even ATTEMPT to ask for your ID until AFTER you have been LEGALLY detained."

 

Anyone know what PA has in comparison to this? Thinking of moving out of NJ to PA...

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Hey I just posted the laws, to the same respect though the cops standing out a club checking ids..... You think that is legal