Sully vs. ACE stock

[DTtuner 21]

I think I've decided on the Sully Stock for my lightweight, budget AR build.

I thought the ACE skeleton (A1 length) was lighter.

Not according to the below calguns table:

 

 

A1..........1.5625..........25

A2..........1.53125..........24.5

Cav Arms C1 (A1 length with plastic trapdoor buttplate)..........1.25..........20

Sully..........1.109375..........17.75

Entry..........0.9125..........14.6

Ace Skeleton (Stubby length w/ rubber buttplate)..........0.8..........12.8

Ace Skeleton (A1 length w/ rubber buttplate)..........1.31875..........21.1

Ace M4 SOCOM..........1.3125..........21.0

Ace Ultralight..........0.81875..........13.1

CAR Telestock (Fiberlight, Mil-Spec)..........0.9125..........14.6

M4 Telestock (RRA, 6-Pos Commercial)..........0.89375..........14.3

M4 Telestock (Stag, 6 pos, Mil-Spec)..........1.0625..........17.0

BM Buttstock, fixed 'Telescoping Style'..........1.4375..........23

MagPul M93A..........1.35625..........21.7

MagPul PRS (Precision Rifle Stock)..........1.70625..........27.3

LMT Crane Telestock..........1.28125..........20.5

VLTOR Carbine Mod Stock (Telestock)..........1.05..........16.8

VLTOR Carbine Clubfoot Telestock..........1.05625..........16.9

 

Considering 90% of these stocks are NJ EVIL, I was down to the ACE, Sully, or a pinned Magpul CTR (if I could find it).

 

Given that the Sully is lightweight, and the only stock to include a buffer tube, buffer, spring, etc., the sully has become #1 on my list.

 

 

Does anyone know where I can pick one up in NJ?

 

Thanks.

[bbk 188]

I don't know where to find one in state, as I ordered mine online via their store.

Regarding the ACE, I'm a bit surprised, even though I feel like someone else shared this same revelation before. Regardless, the Sully has a great balance, and I highly recommend it (as I'm not a fan of bastardizing something that shouldn't [have to] be bastardized-- aka the CTR).

[Tactical Monkey 51]

The Sully Stock is many things - sturdy, reliable, with a solid cheek weld, but it is not lightweight. Depending on your upper it will help balance out your rifle, but if your build includes a LW barrel profile, and if LW was your goal with the build - I'd look elsewhere.

 

That being said I have the Sully stock on one of my rifles, and it's an excellent stock. But on my LW build I went with the Ace Entry stock.

 

Just my $0.02

 

And as far I know you have to order it from their website.

[raz-0 1,259]

Those numbers don't look right.

 

The ace ARFX full length excluding buffer tube is 10.9oz according to ACE, which is close enough to what I actually measured (I had to replace some of the hardware because it vanished into a different dimension after getting dropped). As far as I can tell, that is the weight with hardware, but without the rubber pad. That'd make the buffer tube wieght by their math another 10 oz. The magpul PRS is listed by magpul as 1.68 lb not including the buffer tube and 1.90 lb with. This list has it listed as lighter than the w/o weight. I haven't gotten to weigh one, but having handled one it is NOT light. Also, even the short ACE socom M4 stock is heavier than the ARFX stock even according to ACE. The proprietary extension for it is heavy, but the list has it at 20.1 oz. where ace claims 16.5 for the long version, and that includes the tube. Even if you add a rifle length buffer, that's 5 more oz, which gets you to 21.5 oz.

 

I wouldn't trust this list based on my experience.

 

From del-ton, you can get a kit with the ARFX for $90 that has the buffer tube, buffer, and spring. Cheapest I'm seeing the sully is $130.

If you want short like the sully stock, the ARFX entry stock is $96 from del-ton with buffer tube, buffer and spring. That's 9.7 oz without the tube or buffer.

[Vlad G 345]

I'm with Raz-0 here, I have an Ace and the numbers listed there are bogus, it does not weight 21oz, it would have to be made of tungsten to be that heavy. It is also VERY rugged, probably the most rugged stock around, you can probably pound tent stakes with one without hurting it or the buffer tube.

[DTtuner 21]

I'm with Raz-0 here, I have an Ace and the numbers listed there are bogus, it does not weight 21oz, it would have to be made of tungsten to be that heavy. It is also VERY rugged, probably the most rugged stock around, you can probably pound tent stakes with one without hurting it or the buffer tube.

 

Thanks all. Nothing like real-world experience, as oppose to some spreadsheet.

 

The ACE Skeleton was my 1st choice before I saw this spreadsheet.

 

Amazon has the ACE skeleton listed for about $90, but no Tube, Buffer, Spring.

 

LEmme go check Del-Ton. Only thing is, I already purchased my Del-Ton upper from GB.

[DTtuner 21]

Those numbers don't look right.

 

The ace ARFX full length excluding buffer tube is 10.9oz according to ACE, which is close enough to what I actually measured (I had to replace some of the hardware because it vanished into a different dimension after getting dropped). As far as I can tell, that is the weight with hardware, but without the rubber pad. That'd make the buffer tube wieght by their math another 10 oz. The magpul PRS is listed by magpul as 1.68 lb not including the buffer tube and 1.90 lb with. This list has it listed as lighter than the w/o weight. I haven't gotten to weigh one, but having handled one it is NOT light. Also, even the short ACE socom M4 stock is heavier than the ARFX stock even according to ACE. The proprietary extension for it is heavy, but the list has it at 20.1 oz. where ace claims 16.5 for the long version, and that includes the tube. Even if you add a rifle length buffer, that's 5 more oz, which gets you to 21.5 oz.

 

I wouldn't trust this list based on my experience.

 

From del-ton, you can get a kit with the ARFX for $90 that has the buffer tube, buffer, and spring. Cheapest I'm seeing the sully is $130.

If you want short like the sully stock, the ARFX entry stock is $96 from del-ton with buffer tube, buffer and spring. That's 9.7 oz without the tube or buffer.

 

Verified that Del-Ton has great pricing on the ACE stocks, all parts included.

 

So, now my question is this:

 

ACE Entry

ACE Skeleton

ACE Ultra Lite

or

ACE Ultra Lite ENTRY?

 

I'm leaning towards the Skeleton Entry (stubby) stock.

 

One of my other concerns is rifle balance.

The upper is going to be a 16" HBAR.

I was afraid that going too lite would throw-off the balance (IE: ACE Ultra Lite)

[Vlad G 345]

1) Dunno why you went for the HBAR but if you already ordered it, so be it. Lighter is always better, there is nothing wrong with government profile.

2) How tall are you and do you plan to wear body armor at all times? The short stocks are only really useful if you are really short or are going to have to use the rifle over body armor and associated gear. Both Raz-0 and I are tall folks (he a lot taller then most) so we prefer the longer stocks. The standard Ace ARFX is A1 length without the recoil pad and A2 with it. This would be my choice for a number of reasons. First it is VERY rugged and the correct length for most people. Second, the ultra light versions give no support to the buffer tube AND can shift because they are in no way stabilized, all that keeps them from rotating is a screw, and screws .. well .. they rotate. The longer stock makes for better balance for my taste. The longer stock allows you to use a full length buffer tube which is more forgiving in function and more pleasing in recoil characteristics.

[SW9racer 262]

I used to run an A2 stock on a 16". Hated the rifle length spring, it gave a twang sound on every shot. Looked at the Ace, but did not like the foam. Went for the Sully with the extension. Love it, balances very well on my light weight carbine ( std 16" and moe handguard). I am back to carbine length tube, no spring twang, went for the Spikes powder filled buffer, very smooth!

[Vlad G 345]

To each his own, I couldn't care less about the buffer noise when there is an explosion upfront, and to me the reasons I've outlined above are more important then random noise. Also, grease the spring the noise mostly goes away.

[DTtuner 21]

1) Dunno why you went for the HBAR but if you already ordered it, so be it. Lighter is always better, there is nothing wrong with government profile.

2) How tall are you and do you plan to wear body armor at all times? The short stocks are only really useful if you are really short or are going to have to use the rifle over body armor and associated gear. Both Raz-0 and I are tall folks (he a lot taller then most) so we prefer the longer stocks. The standard Ace ARFX is A1 length without the recoil pad and A2 with it. This would be my choice for a number of reasons. First it is VERY rugged and the correct length for most people. Second, the ultra light versions give no support to the buffer tube AND can shift because they are in no way stabilized, all that keeps them from rotating is a screw, and screws .. well .. they rotate. The longer stock makes for better balance for my taste. The longer stock allows you to use a full length buffer tube which is more forgiving in function and more pleasing in recoil characteristics.

 

1) I agree, but I purchased the upper for an excellent deal, off of Gunbroker. Called del-ton and their 1:7 twist CAR-length uppers are out of stock. No ETA

2) 6'1" tall. If the SHTF, I plan to wear Molle plate carrier, w/armor.

At the range, i won't be wearing the molle vest.

 

.

[DTtuner 21]

I used to run an A2 stock on a 16". Hated the rifle length spring, it gave a twang sound on every shot. Looked at the Ace, but did not like the foam. Went for the Sully with the extension. Love it, balances very well on my light weight carbine ( std 16" and moe handguard). I am back to carbine length tube, no spring twang, went for the Spikes powder filled buffer, very smooth!

 

I remember that noise from rifle training at boot.

Very annoying.

Made my M16A2 sound like a Red Ryder BB gun.

[raz-0 1,259]

I used to run an A2 stock on a 16". Hated the rifle length spring, it gave a twang sound on every shot. Looked at the Ace, but did not like the foam. Went for the Sully with the extension. Love it, balances very well on my light weight carbine ( std 16" and moe handguard). I am back to carbine length tube, no spring twang, went for the Spikes powder filled buffer, very smooth!

 

Use a light grease on the buffer spring. No more twang. I have a 6 year old lower, the foam has held up fine. A carbine length buffer tube with a 5oz carbine buffer should be close to rifle feel. Probably a little harsher on going into battery, so it might make the muzzle dip then.

 

*shrug*

[bry@n 195]

what kinda grease are you guys talking about? What is the name of the grease you both are using?

[Vlad G 345]

Just grease. I've used white moly grease, slide glide, mobil 1 synthetic grease, they all work. I've applied with the tip of the dispenser around each coil, or by sloping some on a rag and applying it to the spring. I'm pretty sure any mechanical type grease would work, I would probably not try Criso though, even though it may work

 

Reapply every few thousand rounds.

 

Also if you are 6'1 I think you would be crowding yourself and the gun quite a bit with the short stock, but thats up to you.

[raz-0 1,259]

I use slide glide mostly, but any grease that stays greasy in the cold rather than chunking up while still having a decent sheer film strength.

 

Slide glide has a very high shear film strength. So far, the longest lasting application I have is about 3 years. The limiting factor is usually me taking apart the gun, at which time I usually wipe it down so it's less nasty hndling the spring and reapply before assembly.

[DTtuner 21]

Also if you are 6'1 I think you would be crowding yourself and the gun quite a bit with the short stock, but thats up to you.

 

If I go with the Entry stock, and it ends-up being SLIGHTLY too short, will a butt-pad be enough to cure my issue?

[Tactical Monkey 51]

As mentioned above I have an Ace Entry. I really like it for my purposes, but it is short. I don't wear body armor, I don't where a vest, but I do shoot square to the target with NTCH. That being said - a lot of my buddies have issues shooting that rifle because they feel like their face is to the charging handle.

 

It's a combination of how you orient yourself to the target (square/bladed) and your body type that would determine if the Entry is too short for you.

 

They do make a 1" butt pad for the Ace skeleton stocks, or you could look into one of the 1" receiver extensions if you find the stock is too short. Both DPMS and Knight's Armament make them.

[bry@n 195]

I was recently thinking of getting the entry stock and then getting the 1" pad but it's only a 1/2" difference because it comes with a 1/2" pad when you buy it. I may just go with a vltor and just pin it.

[SW9racer 262]

Grease in the tube just does not sound like a clean idea. As the spring rubs against the tube walls, does it not deposit globs of grease, where next the bolt slides in and deposits some nice crud into said grease? The twang was really annoying, especially on the cheek when scoping in the second shot. It was easier to find a carbine stock I liked than put up with something that affected my enjoyment. Went back to a carbine buffer, dropped in a Spikes STT2, now smooth as butter. It was a close tossup between the Ace and Sully, both are very nice for non-movable stocks. For reference, my Sully measures 9.25"

[Vlad G 345]

Nope greasing the spring does not make it deposit anything anywhere. Works like a champ. Obviously, don't throw a pound of grease in there, just grease the spring.

[DTtuner 21]

As mentioned above I have an Ace Entry. I really like it for my purposes, but it is short. I don't wear body armor, I don't where a vest, but I do shoot square to the target with NTCH. That being said - a lot of my buddies have issues shooting that rifle because they feel like their face is to the charging handle.

 

It's a combination of how you orient yourself to the target (square/bladed) and your body type that would determine if the Entry is too short for you.

 

They do make a 1" butt pad for the Ace skeleton stocks, or you could look into one of the 1" receiver extensions if you find the stock is too short. Both DPMS and Knight's Armament make them.

 

What is the length of the ACE Entry stock?

What's the LOP?

[raz-0 1,259]

What is the length of the ACE Entry stock?

What's the LOP?

 

Length 7.25". L.O.P.=10.45" (without recoil pad ) Weight: 265g ( 9.7 oz)

[raz-0 1,259]

Grease in the tube just does not sound like a clean idea. As the spring rubs against the tube walls, does it not deposit globs of grease, where next the bolt slides in and deposits some nice crud into said grease? The twang was really annoying, especially on the cheek when scoping in the second shot. It was easier to find a carbine stock I liked than put up with something that affected my enjoyment. Went back to a carbine buffer, dropped in a Spikes STT2, now smooth as butter. It was a close tossup between the Ace and Sully, both are very nice for non-movable stocks. For reference, my Sully measures 9.25"

 

Hmm lets see. the bolt doesn't slide in there, the bolt carrier slides in there. Notice that the bolt carrier has rails. Notice that the buffer tube does not. Notice that the upper receiver does. This all happens like that because you want the bolt carrier to basically protrude into the middle without yawing. If it yawed, you would would do nice things like sheering off the buffer retaining pin as well as probably bind up in the buffer.

 

After 1500 rounds of wolf without cleaning my gun I cna safely say the rear end of my bolt carrier was not dirty. The bolt, the front end of the carrier where all the gas handling actually occurs, and the barrel extension were nasty, but the buffer was fine.

 

to apply, you put a gob of grease on your thumb and index finger. Pinch the spring, and twist it through your greasy pinched fingers. It leaves a thin film (which is why you want something with a high film shear strength).

 

Also, I have been doing this for years and thousands and thousands of rounds, it does not leave gobs of grease anywhere, nor doyou get carbon buildup in your uffer tube with or without grease. If you do, something is really wrong with your AR.

[SW9racer 262]

Hmm lets see. the bolt doesn't slide in there, the bolt carrier slides in there. Notice that the bolt carrier has rails. Notice that the buffer tube does not. Notice that the upper receiver does. This all happens like that because you want the bolt carrier to basically protrude into the middle without yawing. If it yawed, you would would do nice things like sheering off the buffer retaining pin as well as probably bind up in the buffer.

 

After 1500 rounds of wolf without cleaning my gun I cna safely say the rear end of my bolt carrier was not dirty. The bolt, the front end of the carrier where all the gas handling actually occurs, and the barrel extension were nasty, but the buffer was fine.

 

to apply, you put a gob of grease on your thumb and index finger. Pinch the spring, and twist it through your greasy pinched fingers. It leaves a thin film (which is why you want something with a high film shear strength).

 

Also, I have been doing this for years and thousands and thousands of rounds, it does not leave gobs of grease anywhere, nor doyou get carbon buildup in your uffer tube with or without grease. If you do, something is really wrong with your AR.

 

 

Interesting, was always a skeptic on this! I also do not clean after every session, so thought it would gum up the works. Thx!