gurgling noises coming from my baseboard heating?

[david8613 69]

you guys have been very helpful in the past with gunsmithing related stuff, so I figured I would post this here. my base board heating system is making some gurgling noises, so I did a quick google search and I came out with this procedure.. incase my system is a 2 floor, gas boiler...any other tips would be appreciated...

 

 

how to check the tank 

 

Sluggo, you can find this procedure in other posts, but to save some time, I'm gonna re-post it here... these are instructions to follow step by step to recharge your expansion tank.

 

The only thing that concerns me about this is that we don't know whether your water fill valve is plugged up or not, and if you follow this procedure, with a plugged up valve you won't be able to get water back into the boiler and then you'll have more problems...

 

Is the manual valve next to the water fill valve open, or closed?

 

========================

It is important to do this procedure EXACTLY as written!

 

1. Shut off boiler and allow to cool to under 100°F.

 

2. Shut off water supply line to boiler.

 

3. Drain only enough water from the boiler drain to drop the system pressure to ZERO.

DO NOT COMPLETELY DRAIN THE BOILER! ONLY ENOUGH TO DROP PRESSURE TO ZERO!

 

4. With an ACCURATE tire pressure gauge, check the air charge in the tank on the air valve opposite the end of the tank that's connected to the system. If ANY water comes out of the air valve, the bladder inside the tank is shot and the tank needs replaced. If no water comes out the air valve, and the pressure is less than 12-15 PSI, continue to step 5. If the pressure is OK, turn the water supply to the boiler back on and repressurize the system, turn the power back on to the boiler, no service is necessary.

 

5. Using a bicycle pump, or a small air compressor, add air to the tank until you have 15 PSI air charge. 

 

6. Check the boiler pressure gauge again, and if it has risen off ZERO, drain some more water from the boiler drain until it is again at ZERO.

 

7. Check the air charge on the tank again. If it is below 15 PSI, add air to the tank until it is at 15 PSI.

 

8. Repeat steps 6 and 7 until the boiler stays at ZERO and the tank stays at 15 PSI. At this point, the tank is properly recharged and the water supply can be turned on to re-pressurize the system, turn the power on to boiler and return to service.

[alec.mc 180]

Without seeing the system, my only advice is you probably have air in your lines, I wouldnt touch the expansion tank unless you are blowing your saftey. It's unlikely the expansion tank has anything to do with gurgling lines,unless of course the bladder burst, but i've never dealt with that.

 

Pull off some covers on your baseboard heaters and look for bleeders, while the heat is running , unscrew the bleeders, you will hear air start to hiss out, once the air has stopped and water starts coming out, close the bleeder... do this on all the bleeders, and repeat as nessasary until the air is gone.

 

 

edit:

 

another way to test your expansion tank without draining down is by touching it while its running.... one end of the expansion tank will be hot, and the other will be much cooler.

[djg0770 481]

David,

 

The instructions you found apply to old style compression type expansion tanks that were not equipped with either a diaphragm or bladder. http://completewatersystems.com/product/compression-tank/

 

Likewise, Alec's comments re: the expansion tank only apply to the diaphragm or bladder type tank. http://completewatersystems.com/product/diaphragm-expansion-tanks-hft-pt/

 

Gurgling is due to either a crap load of gunk in your system (unlikely) or air (likely). Air vents in residential systems are often a)missing b)manual only c)were never installed or d)not operated by the homeowner.

 

Several types of air vents exist. I like that automatic type (http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=664) though they are a maintenance item (they need to be replaced every few years (like every 2 years). Manual types (http://www.hciterminator.com/Literature/PDF/HCI-06%20MANUAL%20AIR%20VENT%20SPECIFICATION%2006.08.01.NA.pdf) use some type of square head key or a screwdriver depending on what was available at the supply house that day. The idea is you go to the highest point of the hot water system in the house and open the manual air vent until water comes out (and sprays rusty yucky hot water everywhere). The automatic ones don't spray water until they fail at the two year point

 

In some cases, you may not have air vents and will need to install your own. For this you will need a torch and solder, fittings and air vents. I can give you more info offline if you need it.

[david8613 69]

ok I'll leave the expansion tank alone, I'll try bleeding first. so you like the automatic type is this what you have in your home? should they be installed on all the baseboards, or is ths installed on the boiler itself....

[djg0770 481]

ok I'll leave the expansion tank alone, I'll try bleeding first. so you like the automatic type is this what you have in your home? should they be installed on all the baseboards, or is ths installed on the boiler itself....

 

I have two air vents installed in the basement where they are useless (original installation). Air rises, air venting needs to be done at the very top of the system for best effect.

 

I had to cut in a new elbow like this (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=copper+vent+elbow&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4006337041966508670&sa=X&ei=A9C1TtiqCMX20gH2zbzSBw&ved=0CEYQ8gIwAw) on the second floor, I removed the supplied manual vent and then installed an automatic air vent. Poof, no gurgling, no waking up because of gurgling. Now I wake up because the pipes expand when they get hot and the fins go "tink tink tink".

[T Bill 649]

Make sure you water inlet to the boiler is open and the boiler temp/pressure gauge shows a reading of 10-20 psi. That means there is sufficient water in the boiler. If not check for proper boiler water levels and pressure first.

 

If you have hot water baseboard heat, you have air in the lines. To get rid of the air you need to bleed each of the two zones. Near where the lines return to the circulator pump should be a valve or fitting you can connect a garden hose to. this is for bleeding the lines. Run a garden hose to the outside or a drain and open the valve, If your fill line is open, water will run through the lines forcing out the air. After you feel confident this has happen close the valve and then do the other zone. Now make sure the pressure guage on the boiler reads 15-20 PSI. This is caused by the expansion tank and the valve it connects to that keeps your boiler up to minimum pressure and keeps the boiler full of water. Next, You should have 2 air purgers on your system. One on top of the boiler and one on top of the air purger valve that is located on top of the supply line that feeds the two different zones. These air purgers fail and should be replaced when they fail to vent air from the system. They are cheap and easy to replace, but care must be used to replace them when little or no pressure is in the system and is has cooled down.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Make sure you water inlet to the boiler is open and the boiler temp/pressure gauge shows a reading of 10-20 psi. That means there is sufficient water in the boiler. If not check for proper boiler water levels and pressure first.

 

If you have hot water baseboard heat, you have air in the lines. To get rid of the air you need to bleed each of the two zones. Near where the lines return to the circulator pump should be a valve or fitting you can connect a garden hose to. this is for bleeding the lines. Run a garden hose to the outside or a drain and open the valve, If your fill line is open, water will run through the lines forcing out the air. After you feel confident this has happen close the valve and then do the other zone. Now make sure the pressure guage on the boiler reads 15-20 PSI. This is caused by the expansion tank and the valve it connects to that keeps your boiler up to minimum pressure and keeps the boiler full of water. Next, You should have 2 air purgers on your system. One on top of the boiler and one on top of the air purger valve that is located on top of the supply line that feeds the two different zones. These air purgers fail and should be replaced when they fail to vent air from the system. They are cheap and easy to replace, but care must be used to replace them when little or no pressure is in the system and is has cooled down.

I'm no heating system expert, but this is what I did to bleed my system out, I've done this several times after replacing heaters in various rooms, always worked for me.

[djg0770 481]

I am.

 

Why would you DRAIN WATER OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM and expect AIR is going to go with it? Air rises in water, typically... Open vents at top, not drains at bottom.

 

www.heatinghelp.com is a good resource.

[T Bill 649]

When you purge your heating zones you are forcing moving air entrained water out of the system with new water(something like turning on a garden hose- out comes some air with the water). You are not draining the system. The auto fill on the boiler will let new water in. The circulator pump sometines does not move the water fast enough to purge air trapped at the high spots in the line. Water pressure flushing the lines will. Modern hydronic heating does not need bleeders at the top of most residential homes. A good purge is more than sufficient. A check of the air bleeders on the boiler and the top of the air purger is really necessary. These bleeders are what keeps small pockets of air out of your system (top of boiler and supply line to zones). Good Luck!

[david8613 69]

ok i took some pics,

 

gotta change this piece for sure, this is probably where air is coming in

pressure looks way low here in this pic

found 2 bleeders valve thingys

can you guys give me step by step guide, i wanna be 100% clear before i proceed

i should fix that leaky piece first right....

 

another thing I noticed is lately the gurgling sound is sounding more like a swooshing, sounds like there is less water in the system, how do I know if there is sufficient water in the system.

[civictuner04 6]

that first picture is a style of bleeder and yes it looks in poor condition and should be replaced

[T Bill 649]

Pic 1 shows a leaky air bleeder. It is leaking water out (not good) but it does not let air in. Pic 2 shows no pressure (Not Good). If the system cannot hold pressure, then that must be checked out first. You are right to ask do I have enough water in the boiler. However, if the line to fill the boiler is open and there is no pressure (assuming the gauge is correct) many items need to be checked out. At this point if you are in the dark on how to check it out it is time to seek to advice of a HVAC dude. Fill valve may not work, expansion tank NG, Leak in system, etc. Even if the system does not have a leak it should hold some pressure from the action of the expansion tank. Other pics show these bleeders need 2b replaced also.

 

Again be safe here. You do not want to play with 180 degree hot water under any pressure.

 

Seek professional help if you do not understand you system.

[david8613 69]

i think i can do this, im not that new to doing things in the house, its just this different from what im used to, oil boiler and regular radiators... im a good student, and learn fast...

[david8613 69]

got pressure back up

changed out the old parts

the thing im not clear on is when i turned the water on to bring the presure up, was i supposed open water release valve and keep the water running? or keep it closed and fill it and let the auto valves release air stuck in the system which i heard it do when i filling it but it stopped.

i wanna turn on my system but i want to wait and see what you guys say before i do...