N.J. should not have to honor other states' hidden handgun laws

[Whamo 5]

More BS from the editorial staff at the Star Ledger

 

"New Jersey has very strict rules about who's allowed to carry a hidden handgun. Other states, like North Carolina or Florida, don't.

 

That matters because a federal bill may soon be passed that forces the right to carry concealed weapons on every state. So anybody who's allowed to carry a hidden gun in a lax state would be able to do so here, too."

 

More crap at this link: http://blog.nj.com/n...o_honor_ot.html

[Njgunowner 2]

Old news, been discussed.

[Whamo 5]

It's in today's editorial.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Actually, it would kind of suck for non-residents to be allowed to carry in our state, while we can't.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Actually, it would kind of suck for non-residents to be allowed to carry in our state, while we can't.

 

says who? all it says is a valid state concealed carry permit. Not in "your home state".

[M1152 713]

all I needed to see was this "So anybody who's allowed to carry a hidden gun in a lax state would be able to do so here, too". Who comes up with this stuff? I have four non resident permits and I had four background checks so where's the lax part?

[Malsua 1,422]

says who? all it says is a valid state concealed carry permit. Not in "your home state".

 

Ok, one more time with feeling.

 

Congress has the ability to regulate interstate commerce. In fact, it's mentioned in HR 822. This means that if you are not engaging in interstate travel, this doesn't apply to you.

 

(8) The Congress finds that preventing the law8

ful carrying of firearms by individuals who are trav9

eling outside their home State interferes with the

10 constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms

11 interstate commerce.

 

and here's the meat:

 

 

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any

9 State or political subdivision thereof, related to the car10

rying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not

11 prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting,

12 shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a

13 government-issued photographic identification document

14 and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to

15 the law of a State and which permits the person to carry

16 a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun

17 (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has

18 been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign com19

merce, in any State, other than the State of residence of

20 the person,

[Ray Ray 3,566]

thanks Mark, your always there to point that out to me

 

I still think we'll be able to carry though

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Ok, one more time with feeling.

 

 

A little Arlo in the morning..

[Bob B 103]

The article states that there are 20 states that waive NICS during firearm purchases for CCW holders. I thought that NICS was required for all firearms purchases from a dealer. Is that not true?

[Midwest 28]

The article states that there are 20 states that waive NICS during firearm purchases for CCW holders. I thought that NICS was required for all firearms purchases from a dealer. Is that not true?

 

There are some states that do waive the NICS check if one has a CCW, however the purchaser still has to fill out the 4473. My state, Kentucky is one of those states. However since I do not have the CCDW (Conceal Carry Deadly Weapons) permit, I still must go through NICS and the 4473. I don't have the extra cash now to pay for the training course requirement and for the fee for the CCW...maybe next year.

 

I have read on other sites that some FFL's still require the NICS check even though the CCW permit is supposed to satisfy BATF NICS requirements. So even in those states, some FFL's might still require it.

 

EDIT> Here is the list of states that allow a CCW permit instead of the NICS.

 

http://www.atf.gov/p...ermit_chart.pdf

 

 

 

Alaska, Arizona,Arkansas,California* (Entertainment Firearms only),Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississipi, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Wyoming,

 

**Nebraska - Handgun purchase cerificates

 

The list is from "State Laws and Published Ordinances-Firearms 29th Edition 2008", it might have been updated since ...

[Bob B 103]

That's interesting. I wonder if it has to be a resident permit, or does any CCW qualify, and if so, can the NICS check at point of sale be waived for CCW holders in NJ by changing the Administrative Code and without changing the statute.

[Bob B 103]

Found it:

 

http://usgovinfo.abo.../blbradyact.htm

 

(1) Beginning on the date that is 90 days after the date of enactment of this subsection and ending on the day before the date that is 60 months after such date of enactment, it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a handgun to an individual who is not licensed under section 923, unless--

...

`( C )(i) the transferee has presented to the transferor a permit that--

`(I) allows the transferee to possess or acquire a handgun; and

`(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and

`(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a handgun by the transferee would be in violation of the law;

`( D ) the law of the State requires that, before any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer completes the transfer of a handgun to an individual who is not licensed under section 923, an authorized government official verify that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a handgun by the transferee would be in violation of law;

 

So, as long as you have a PPP, you are exempt from the Brady requirements. That's a new one for me. So, is the NICS check at point of sale required by NJ Statute or Administrative Code, or both?

 

Update: I don't see anything in the 2C:58-2 or 3 that mandates a NICS check at point of sale. I could only find it in the Administrative Code, 13:54-3.12 and 3.13.

 

§ 13:54-3.12 Requirements for sale of rifle, shotgun, antique cannon or receiver

 

In addition to complying with the other requirements of this chapter, the retail dealer shall, prior to the sale or transfer of a rifle, shotgun, or receiver, initiate a NICS check with the Division of State Police as defined in 27 CFR 478.11, which is incorporated by reference herein, as may be amended and supplemented.

 

§ 13:54-3.13 Requirements for sale of a handgun or frame

 

(a) Every purchaser, other than a licensed or registered retail or wholesale dealer or manufacturer, or law enforcement agency as provided in this chapter, shall present a valid permit to purchase a handgun to the dealer, who shall confirm the identity of the purchaser. A permit is valid for the purchase of one handgun or receiver. The dealer shall adhere to the following procedures:

 

...

 

6. In addition to complying with the other requirements of this chapter, the retail dealer shall, prior to completing the sale or transfer of a handgun or frame, initiate a NICS check with the Division of State Police as defined in 27 CFR 478.11, which is incorporated by reference herein, as may be amended and supplemented.

 

This means that Chris Christie could issue an executive order to eliminate the NICS check at point of sale for anyone with a PPP, even if you're buying a rifle or shotgun. No legislative action needed.

[RLTW 3]

When reading some of the comments on this article... I am just baffled by some peoples total ignorance to the subject. When people say that people will killed over parking spots...I can't believe how some people in NJ are out of touch with reality or just FACTS.

[mikelets456 78]

When reading some of the comments on this article... I am just baffled by some peoples total ignorance to the subject. When people say that people will killed over parking spots...I can't believe how some people in NJ are out of touch with reality or just FACTS.

 

The article is true,It will only happen in NJ... Pennsylvania is much different and won't happen over there because their guns laws are....are....are....stricter?

[SpecialK 193]

I don't have the extra cash now to pay for the training course requirement and for the fee for the CCW...maybe next year.

 

 

Could you all imagine not having enough cash on hand to be able to speak your mind? Why do we put up with this? When are we going to realize our rights are gone and it is time to take them back?

[Midwest 28]

Could you all imagine not having enough cash on hand to be able to speak your mind? Why do we put up with this? When are we going to realize our rights are gone and it is time to take them back?

 

It may not seem a lot of money for the KY CCDW permit, the permit is $60 and then there is the required training course which costs $80. It is like an all day 8 hour course which includes a film or two, written and range live fire range test as I understand it. Even after you pass then you have to wait until you receive the certificate in the mail and that takes upward of a month. Then you go to the sheriff with the document and go through the process and then get the permit.

 

The reason why (besides the money factor) I have not got the permit. There was never a real compelling need to get a CCW. We can already carry loaded in the vehicle in the glove compartment and center console or anywhere in the vehicle that has a compartment installed by the vehicle manufacturer ...and open carry if we wanted. But I normally don't open carry unless it is my own property out in the country.

 

If we carry in our car (like I mentioned) without the permit it is fine in KY, but illegal in Ohio and Indiana...thus getting a permit is a good reason as KY has reciprocity with nearby Ohio and Indiana and a lot of states.

 

 

If anyone ever wanted some good spots for hunting, consider Kentucky. You can get five or six amongst yourselves to pitch in and buy some land for next to nothing. It is possible to get more than 50 acres in the country with a trailer for 100K or less...with taxes 1K more or less per year...

[SpecialK 193]

That is a lot of money to exercise a right! There should be no cost at all to exercise a right is my point. This is ridiculous that we put up with this crap.

 

Think of this scenario: "Please pay a $80 fee if you wish for your house not to be searched without a warrant each year." That's how much sense these laws make. Think about it, if the Government just did random searches of peoples houses they would be able to stop some crime. So they should start doing that since the Constitution is only a historical document and if you want your house not to be searched you can go through a process to have a background check done and pay a fee and you then are not subjected to these random searches. Can't afford the fee? To bad then no rights for you!

[emptyshell 0]

I don't normally post comments on news site...but I just had to. Getting really sick of the way we are treated here in this state...

When it comes to firearm laws we are treated like children...but when it comes to tax laws(and every other I might add)...we are treated as adults.

hmmmm.

[mikelets456 78]

That is a lot of money to exercise a right! There should be no cost at all to exercise a right is my point. This is ridiculous that we put up with this crap.

 

Think of this scenario: "Please pay a $80 fee if you wish for your house not to be searched without a warrant each year." That's how much sense these laws make. Think about it, if the Government just did random searches of peoples houses they would be able to stop some crime. So they should start doing that since the Constitution is only a historical document and if you want your house not to be searched you can go through a process to have a background check done and pay a fee and you then are not subjected to these random searches. Can't afford the fee? To bad then no rights for you!

 

I'm with you, but quite honestly what do you suggest we do? I have tried selling my house but who in their right mind wants to move to NJ? It is going back on the market in 2-3 weeks so we can get out of this horrid state.

 

Back to your point, Other than that, this was the main reason for the Constitution where it LIMITS GOVERNMENT as to what they are "allowed" to do. For the life of me "shall not be infringed" means exactly that....Which part of "shall not be infringed" is up for altercation? The government shall not infringe upon the 2A and other rights in the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are/were written in stone for all in this country and is the staple of freedom and rights from God. The reason the Bill of Rights are a right from God? So that No government or man can alter or take them away.

 

I don't know about you, but I have a full time job, two kids in private school and bills that need to be paid. I have gone to town hall meetings, called, wrote and emailed every state and federal official that I possibly could. I have ran down to D.C. at least 4-5 times in the last few years for Tea parties, gun marches,Health care bill, etc. Know what happened? Nothing... absolutely nothing! All that money and time and I was branded a hateful racist by my family, some co-workers and the media. Honestly I really don't care what they think, but if things need to change then I actually do...if you know what I mean.

 

So what's next? What do we do? The days of "contacting your congressman/senator" are OVER! Both sides are to blame and we the taxpayer became complacent. I don't mean to sound condescending, I am simply frustrated and concerned. I have been reading a lot of history lately and realize what is soon to come. I hold out for a peaceful resolution but am doubtful of that as well. So please, what is the next step? How do we get back the "rights" that the Constitution say we are SUPPOSED to have?!

[matt6669 71]

You don't.

 

You patiently wait for it to implode, and make sure your ready for when it does.

 

It's like the Titanic, it was listing too far that it couldn't be saved, it's gotta sink. This country is listing too far in one direction that you can't "right" it without something major happening. I've been saying for a while the only way to wake up Americans is for their to be a war on our own soil. Whether it's Americans fighting "Americans" or Americans fighting a foreign country, it's the only way things will change.

[Malsua 1,422]

For the life of me "shall not be infringed" means exactly that..

\

 

Yeah, but they read that first part about the militia and then it all makes sense. The founding fathers wanted to make sure the government always had access to guns, so while crafting a document for the people called the bill of rights, which was written entirely to protect people from they government they tossed the 2nd one in for the government. It should be clear to everyone.

[mikelets456 78]

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

 

"Bear" from the dictionary:

 

bear ¹ (bâr)

v. bore (bôr, br), borne (bôrn, brn) or born (bôrn), bear·ing, bears

v.tr.

1. To hold up; support.

2. To carry from one place to another; transport.

 

 

The "Right of the people"... that is us.

 

 

Who are the people?

 

 

Preamble Note

 

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[Malsua 1,422]

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

 

"Bear" from the dictionary:

 

bear ¹ (bâr)

v. bore (bôr, br), borne (bôrn, brn) or born (bôrn), bear·ing, bears

v.tr.

1. To hold up; support.

2. To carry from one place to another; transport.

 

 

The "Right of the people"... that is us.

 

 

Who are the people?

 

 

Preamble Note

 

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

Right, which is why gun grabbers that live in Bizarro world feel a right listed in the Bill of Rights, reserves the right of the government to keep and bear arms.

[SpecialK 193]

I'm with you, but quite honestly what do you suggest we do? I have tried selling my house but who in their right mind wants to move to NJ? It is going back on the market in 2-3 weeks so we can get out of this horrid state. Back to your point, Other than that, this was the main reason for the Constitution where it LIMITS GOVERNMENT as to what they are "allowed" to do. For the life of me "shall not be infringed" means exactly that....Which part of "shall not be infringed" is up for altercation? The government shall not infringe upon the 2A and other rights in the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are/were written in stone for all in this country and is the staple of freedom and rights from God. The reason the Bill of Rights are a right from God? So that No government or man can alter or take them away. I don't know about you, but I have a full time job, two kids in private school and bills that need to be paid. I have gone to town hall meetings, called, wrote and emailed every state and federal official that I possibly could. I have ran down to D.C. at least 4-5 times in the last few years for Tea parties, gun marches,Health care bill, etc. Know what happened? Nothing... absolutely nothing! All that money and time and I was branded a hateful racist by my family, some co-workers and the media. Honestly I really don't care what they think, but if things need to change then I actually do...if you know what I mean. So what's next? What do we do? The days of "contacting your congressman/senator" are OVER! Both sides are to blame and we the taxpayer became complacent. I don't mean to sound condescending, I am simply frustrated and concerned. I have been reading a lot of history lately and realize what is soon to come. I hold out for a peaceful resolution but am doubtful of that as well. So please, what is the next step? How do we get back the "rights" that the Constitution say we are SUPPOSED to have?!

 

Prepare yourself and your family for worse times. You can hopefully get your children out to a state that is more friendly to the people. I understand the frustration and fear the government causes in this state. I am stuck here as well. Either drink yourself to death and ignore it or prepare for worse times.

[Silent Service 7]

 

So what's next? What do we do? The days of "contacting your congressman/senator" are OVER! Both sides are to blame and we the taxpayer became complacent. I don't mean to sound condescending, I am simply frustrated and concerned. I have been reading a lot of history lately and realize what is soon to come. I hold out for a peaceful resolution but am doubtful of that as well. So please, what is the next step? How do we get back the "rights" that the Constitution say we are SUPPOSED to have?!

 

Scary times indeed. We've lost that fuzzy feeling.

 

Pick up a book called "501 Most Devastating Disasters" by Bounty Books. Basically one page readers digest versions on all sorts of disasters. The financial disasters will blow your mind(think repeat,repeat). The book was printed in the UK and authors are from uk too.

 

 

[Silent Service 7]

 

 

 

Scary times indeed. We've lost that fuzzy feeling.

 

Pick up a book called "501 Most Devastating Disasters" by Bounty Books. Basically one page readers digest versions on all sorts of disasters. The financial disasters will blow your mind(think repeat,repeat). The book was printed in the UK and authors are from uk too.

 

Oh, and buy dehydrated/freeze dried food (Sams club sells it under Auguson Farms Brand), learn how to plant a garden with your family (the ones that don't think your a racist), install a wood stove, teach your children how to handle a weapon, make alliances with your neighbors (the good hardworking ones. the ones getting the govt. hand outs will expect that to continue). Be SELF reliant.

 

I think it is our obligation to each other to be self sufficent.

 

Trust in the Lord but tie up your camel !

[GunByte 2]

I'm with you, but quite honestly what do you suggest we do? I have tried selling my house but who in their right mind wants to move to NJ? It is going back on the market in 2-3 weeks so we can get out of this horrid state.

 

Back to your point, Other than that, this was the main reason for the Constitution where it LIMITS GOVERNMENT as to what they are "allowed" to do. For the life of me "shall not be infringed" means exactly that....Which part of "shall not be infringed" is up for altercation? The government shall not infringe upon the 2A and other rights in the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are/were written in stone for all in this country and is the staple of freedom and rights from God. The reason the Bill of Rights are a right from God? So that No government or man can alter or take them away.

 

I don't know about you, but I have a full time job, two kids in private school and bills that need to be paid. I have gone to town hall meetings, called, wrote and emailed every state and federal official that I possibly could. I have ran down to D.C. at least 4-5 times in the last few years for Tea parties, gun marches,Health care bill, etc. Know what happened? Nothing... absolutely nothing! All that money and time and I was branded a hateful racist by my family, some co-workers and the media. Honestly I really don't care what they think, but if things need to change then I actually do...if you know what I mean.

 

So what's next? What do we do? The days of "contacting your congressman/senator" are OVER! Both sides are to blame and we the taxpayer became complacent. I don't mean to sound condescending, I am simply frustrated and concerned. I have been reading a lot of history lately and realize what is soon to come. I hold out for a peaceful resolution but am doubtful of that as well. So please, what is the next step? How do we get back the "rights" that the Constitution say we are SUPPOSED to have?!

 

I think we start at the begining. We first restore the 1st Amendment so that I can yell "fire" in a crowded theater if I feel like it. Then we can move on to the 2nd Amendment rights because I really would like to own a small nuke just to keep my neighbors in line. Personally I just moved out of NJ which solved my problems as I think that any rights written about in the past will always have limitiations to deal with the current world we live in. If not we will be no better than those overseas who live by ancient laws and religions that we all abhor due to the way they treat women and their citizens.

 

Our fight is not with the restoring our full rights but rather making sure that only reasonable restrictions are put on them to limit any harm that unrestricted rights would have. I am sure that no one wants a known criminal or certified mental patient to be able to buy guns and explosives at will. Right now each State is determining the gun rights for their residents and not the Federal Government so the fight is best aimed at the State level at this time. Obviously if enough citizens of NJ wanted better gun laws they would get them simply by making it known that only politicians in favor of more liberal gun laws will get their vote. That does not seem to be the case in NJ as the laws have gotten more restrictive since I moved with the one handgun a month law. In Florida politicians know that they will lose a lot of votes if they are anti gun. Even our new Governor is pro gun and has a concealed carry permit. The power of the vote in a democracy (well actually a Republic) is a good tool for change as it was here. To effect change all you have to do is to get the voters on your side. For some reason that does not happen in regards to gun laws in NJ and NY.