A question from a coworker

[Twospot 38]

A coworker of mine who knows I'm into firearms asked me today what parts of the gun defines it as a gun. I wasn't sure what he meant but he said "Well if you replace the barrel is it the same gun"? I responded yes. In that case if you replaced the frame with the serial number it technically makes it a different gun (at least that's what I think please correct me if I am wrong). He proceeded to ask well what if I decided to build my own gun? He went on to say he was thinking about buying a cnc machine to start making his own firearms. Is this even legal?

[Jon 264]

The part with the serial number is generally considered the "firearm". It is legal to build your own firearms outside of NJ. Inside, it's a no-go.

[Twospot 38]

The part with the serial number is generally considered the "firearm". It is legal to build your own firearms outside of NJ. Inside, it's a no-go.

 

Thanks Jon. That's what I figured. I actually work in PA and he lives in PA so he should be good to go. Do you have to somehow create a serial number for your personally built firearms. That may be out of scope of your knowledge but was wondering

[aguilar64 9]

I might be wrong but as long as the firearm is for personal use, you don't need a serial number.

[Jon 264]

Thanks Jon. That's what I figured. I actually work in PA and he lives in PA so he should be good to go. Do you have to somehow create a serial number for your personally built firearms. That may be out of scope of your knowledge but was wondering

 

To my knowledge you do not need to put a serial number on a firearm if you build it. Keep in mind though, that he can never sell or transfer any guns he made himself.

[Recon Racoon 49]

If he does want to sell his creations, he'll have to register them with the ATF*.

 

This is what I read when looking at completing an 80% lower receiver. I could be wrong. He'll need to do research on this subject, since each state may handle this differently.

[KpdPipes 388]

The part with the serial number is generally considered the "firearm". It is legal to build Make from Scratch your own firearms outside of NJ. Inside, it's a no-go.

 

FTFY..You can BUILD anything you want from an already produced receiver, you just can't MAKE the Receiver here. As far as ATF is Concerned, the Serialed Part IS the firearm when we are talking about "Firearm" in this context...once you get into more esoteric stuff like NFA, the line gets somewhat blurred.

[KpdPipes 388]

FTFY..You can BUILD anything you want from an already produced receiver (as long as it's compliant of course), you just can't MAKE the Receiver here. As far as ATF is Concerned, the Serialed Part IS the firearm when we are talking about "Firearm" in this context...once you get into more esoteric stuff like NFA, the line gets somewhat blurred.

[Jon 264]

Yes, that's what I meant, sorry. Thank you for clarifying.

[Kaiser7 33]

The part with the serial number is generally considered the "firearm". It is legal to build your own firearms outside of NJ. Inside, it's a no-go.

 

Another stupid question from Kaiser-- I suppose this doesn't include building ARs from kits and things, but rather if you built your own gun through a CNC or something.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I might be wrong but as long as the firearm is for personal use, you don't need a serial number.

 

Craftsman have been making muzzleloading firearms for centuries.......for sale & personal use. Federal laws aren't as strict as NJ's. In PA they're not classified as firearms.

 

That being said, if someone buys a cnc machine and wants to make & sell "lowers" or "frames" or "receivers" I'm sure the BATFE would like to hear from them......just sayin'

 

CNC machines are on the do not export list (to some countries, especially unfriendly ones).

 

Dave

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Craftsman have been making muzzleloading firearms for centuries.......for sale & personal use. Federal laws aren't as strict as NJ's. In PA they're not classified as firearms.

 

That being said, if someone buys a cnc machine and wants to make & sell "lowers" or "frames" or "receivers" I'm sure the BATFE would like to hear from them......just sayin'

 

CNC machines are on the do not export list (to some countries, especially unfriendly ones).

 

Dave

 

If you want to sell anywhere in the country wouldn't you need a class # license? or a manufacturing license from the BATFE.... If the sole purpose of making the firearms is to sell them? Speaking in terms of what the FEDs consider a firearm, keeping the conversation more "in general".

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Another stupid question from Kaiser-- I suppose this doesn't include building ARs from kits and things, but rather if you built your own gun through a CNC or something.

 

It's all about the serialized part in general, or the receiver. On an AR the gun part is 100% built, the stripped lower is already made. If it's say 80% milled, then no, finishing the last 20% would be illegal in NJ. even if it means all that is left is drilling out the pin holes.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

If you want to sell anywhere in the country wouldn't you need a class # license? or a manufacturing license from the BATFE.... If the sole purpose of making the firearms is to sell them? Speaking in terms of what the FEDs consider a firearm, keeping the conversation more "in general".

 

The way I read the laws, they (BATFE) have as much to say about manufacture as they do distribution, especially across State lines, which the Feds are concerned with. And tons of record keeping!

 

I sometimes am guilty of pointing-out that some of the "blanket statements" made on a forum have as many holes as Swiss cheese. It's merely to educate & stimulate the mind into thinking about ALL of the possibilities. Banning ALL gun making would eliminate a craft that has been passed-down for generations. And rip a piece of our history from us.

 

Anybody that wants to buy a CNC machine to make guns as a hobby is either a Wackjob or just has too much time & coin on his hands. Ask someone who owns one (like I have asked) about the cost of operation, materials, waste, computers, programming, labor & insurance. I'd be willing to bet that IF a forum member here owned one and made guns for a profit, the cheapskates here would come out of the woodwork and set-up "**** Threads" about how expensive his guns are! Just sayin'........

[Dan 177]

In NJ to build a firearm (from scratch, the whole thing including the receiver or what the ATF typically views as a firearm), you would have to register as a manufacturer with the NJSP. In other words, you would have to have a legit business, with all the trimmings to begin the process.

 

 

2C:58-1. Registration of manufacturers and wholesale dealers of firearms

a. Registration. Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer of firearms shall register with the superintendent as provided in this section. No person shall engage in the business of, or act as a manufacturer or wholesale dealer of firearms, or manufacture or sell at wholesale any firearm, until he has so registered.

 

Applications for registration shall be made on such forms as shall be prescribed by the superintendent, and the applicant shall furnish such information and other particulars as may be prescribed by law or by any rules or regulations promulgated by the superintendent. Each application for registration or renewal shall be accompanied by a fee of $150.00.

 

The superintendent shall prescribe standards and qualifications for the registration of manufacturers and wholesalers of firearms, for the protection of the public safety, health and welfare. He shall refuse to register any applicant for registration unless he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to engage in business as a manufacturer or wholesale dealer of firearms without any danger to the public safety, health or welfare.

[ianargent 7]

Check out www.pagunblog.com - the proprietor and a friend of his have been working on a 3d-printed AR-15, and I believe a cnc-milled 1911. In PA, as the name implies

[Twospot 38]

Thank you all for the informative responses!!!