Question for the FFL's about nics & ogam

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

So..... Just say that I just picked up my pistol using My first permit.

 

Is it ok for the FFL to start my nics check 10 or more days before the 30 day wait for ogam.

I know I can't pick it up until the 31st day.

 

But my question is if it's ok for the FFL to start the app and for the FFL to fax it in?

 

[tj462nj 32]

No, must wait for the 31st day

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

No

 

Flat out NO?

 

Is that the LAW?

 

After 30 days then I can start the paper work? Plus the 10-14 days wait for the nics?

Really?

[tj462nj 32]

when the ffl asks you if you purchased a handgun within last 30 days, what would you say? I know I wouldn't submit it prior to the 30 days .if it gets submitted prior to the 30 days, you have a chance of getting denied, then have to pay the nics fee twice. that is the law

[NJTOW 3]

That's what I had to do a few weeks back, both guns purchased on the same day but had to wait for the 31st. day so they could run the nics. check again.

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

when the ffl asks you if you purchased a handgun within last 30 days, what would you say? I know I wouldn't submit it prior to the 30 days .if it gets submitted prior to the 30 days, you have a chance of getting denied, then have to pay the nics fee twice. that is the law

 

Understood.

 

But if it's from the same FFL and he said its ok as long as I don't pick it up until the 31st day.

Just as long as he/she is not breaking the law

 

Thank you for the help tj462nj

 

*edited

 

[KevD 0]

I have heard of ppl buying pistols 31 days from when nics was submitted and not when it was approved and the state police approving it but many ffls saying that it has to be 31 from approval. Anyone out there experience anything similar.

[njgunrunner 0]

kev- tj462 is correct when he says that if your ffl submits the nics request before the ogam 30 day time period, there is a chance it will be denied. i used an ffl who submitted his request for the nics check before my 30 days ogam time period had passed. by the time trenton ran the nics check, i was just beyond the 30 day requirement. I understand this is sort of chancy, but i guess some ffl's are doing it. I think most NJ ffl's would probably wait til the 30 days are up to avoid violating the ogam law, and getting a nics denial.

[KevD 0]

Thanks ... Ill risk it .. Fortune favors the bold...

[rush1329 1]

as per my understanding, the NICS will go through before the 31 days. the NICS is just a check, it is up to the dealer and purchaser to make the prudent decision to wait. when the copies get sent to local PD and NJSP they cross check your file and see if there was 31 days. but regardless of 1 day or 100 days, the NICS will clear. this is just my understanding of it though... i could be wrong... (just ask my girlfriend)

[Maksim 1,504]

Your purchase is the submission I would assume.... Otherwise if you are not purchasing. Why would FFL run nics, right?

 

At this point, if you are buying more than one gun, plan it at once and do exemption. Tis way, wait once.

[Sludog 0]

I asked my dealer the same question and he said no. Must wait 30 days from the day you pick it up. Can submit another NICS on the day 31. If you try to send it earlier, the NICS will get rejected and you have to start all over again. Has happened numerous times at my LGS because some buyers were untruthful when asked about OGAM. 

[Sludog 0]

I have heard of ppl buying pistols 31 days from when nics was submitted and not when it was approved and the state police approving it but many ffls saying that it has to be 31 from approval. Anyone out there experience anything similar.

I would not risk it. Waits are up to 3 weeks right now. If you get rejected you could be 6 weeks waiting. Just get the permit renewed or buy privately and bypass the NICS madness. Private sales are the only way to use OGAM efficiently. 

[nuclearheli 40]

So, this has been debated before and it boils down to confusion both on our parts and on the part of the State Police. There are two issues that become questionable due to the NICS problem in the State of NJ, and only in this state. 

 

Dilemma 1, according to the ATF and the Brady Law NICS checks are only valid for 30 days from the day they were initiated. I doubt anyone crafting the law for "instant background checks" thought one single state in this nation would interpret "instant" to mean weeks. So how long does NJ consider NICS checks valid? Based on some of the waits I have seen on this forum it's possible that by the time you pickup your firearm after receiving a NICS approval the approval is already invalid. Anyone considering that possibility? At the very least my customers are dealing with the state limiting the validity of their NICS check from 30 days as it was intended by federal law, to 15 days through no fault of their own.

 

Dilemma 2, as a result of NICS checks NOT being instant in NJ the question about when you can file a NICS request for a purchase is now a matter up for debate. Again, the guidance is that the state doesn't know the answer. It was never considered when implementing the system in NJ (Point of Contact State) because, for you new gun owners, there was a time just at the end of last year where NICS checks were done on the phone in minutes. And during those phone checks NO check was performed for OGAM! The Brady Law and the NICS system was not intended to be used to enforce OGAM for New Jersey and at least up until the era of FAXES it was never used for that purpose.

 

The Brady Law is a federal law and the ATF provides the POC states with guidance on their implementation of the law. The ATF is very clear about when you can file a NICS check. They state and I quote, FFLs should contact NICS after the transferee has completed Section A of the ATF Form 4473

 

The FFL is responsible, if you know that a purchase was made in the last 30 days, not to transfer the firearm until the time is expired. There is no law that prohibits you from completing all the necessary paperwork and checks before the transfer no matter how long (within 30 days) you need to wait. 

 

Here is how it works for my customers. I ask if they have purchased a firearm in the last 30 days. For those that say yes I meet my obligation by making them swear to this answer with their signature and that is as far as I or any dealer can go unless you were the one selling the gun to them. I then inform them that I can and will file the NICS in advance of the 30 days for them. I also tell them that I have been told (only on these forums) that there is a risk they would be denied because of OGAM. Again, I only tell them that because of some opinions held by members of this forum. However I have no other form of verification that that is the case and to date I have not had one NICS denied because of this reason and I have filed in advance for some of my customers.

 

You are however in trouble with the SP if you lied about OGAM and as a result obtained a handgun from a dealer in less than 30 days. The mechanism to find that is quite simple and you will be caught. The pistol permit dates are reviewed by the SP firearms unit and it's very clear to see if a handgun is purchased in less than 30 days. 

 

NICS is not intended to be used for OGAM!

[PK90 3,573]

nuclearheli, check the Vendor Forum.