Optics in Practical Rifle Stages

[twong11219 0]

I finally had a chance to attend Shongum's rifle stage this month. This was the first time I've ever shot a rifle stage so this is all new to me. So let's cover what platform I was using. I was running a KAC SR15 with a PWS FSC556 at the muzzle and topped with a Burris XTR 1-4 optics. The lead I was feeding my SR with was LC M855s.

 

Here was my first observation. I need to get off the bench and my ass and start practicing more in the standing position. I started off shoulders squared, but as the strings progressed, I was just letting the recoil push me farther out of my stance. I'm not a stocky build, nor am I really strong. That and sweltering in the sun for practically the whole day pretty much wore out any stamina I had left for the day. Another thing I noticed was when the buzzer goes off, all that grey matter between my brain just takes a dump. Ok, enough bitching.

 

Now with my fundamentals issues aside, I had a problem with the second set of strings. It was 6 targets in row. I was engaging as fast as I could trying to maintain muzzle climb and trying to track the target and reticle. Targets were no more than 50 yd I'm guessing. On the third target, the muzzle jumped so much I lost track of the target and had to sweep back to the first target before I could start engaging the correct one. At this point, I think I over zoomed my optics. I was maybe at ~3x zoom. I can see the whole IPSC target left to right. There were some targets with smaller profiles so I bumped up my zoom for them.

 

Now for the more seasoned guys out there, if you had the choice like I do to be able to zoom in or out, how far would you zoom to engage a head shot on a target 50 yd away or run a stage? Any advice you can offer other than telling me to dump my scope for a RDS? Should I have ran 223s instead for a milder recoil?

 

Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[HuntingPaper 62]

Those stage at Shongum are lots of fun. Unfortunately I could not make it to this match...

I don't use any magnification at 50 yards that helps me to find the targets faster and keep both eyes open to anticipate transitions. I'm running an Eotech 512 in one rifle and a Bushnell Tactical Elite in the other.

[Jon 264]

At that range, you needed to keep the optic at 1x. Magnification at 50 yards is going to slow you down big time.

[ronhonda 86]

I had to leave and was not able to do rifle side stage.

But I would magnify enough to be able to hit the far targets with ease and speed.

I am assuming it was 2 shots and target was neutralized, if so zoom in enough to get your hits.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Target acquisition when using a magnified optic is slower than if you're using no magnification.  At 50 yards or less, a non-magnified red dot is more than enough.

[2Alpha 6]

use whatever magnification you need to make the shot. If its open targets at 50 yards with time plus scoring, 1x on the XTR will let you burn across them.  If tight head shots are needed, then you probably will want to bump up the magnification to what makes it easy to call your shots and find the next target. 

 

I don't shoot well at speed with magnification, even out to 200 yards, I get a case of the wobbles.  But others need maginification.

 

I used to run a XTR, I had a terrible time with it.  Couldn't shoot fast at any distance and had trouble with contrast inside the circle at distance.  Ended up dumping that for an acog which worked better, but ulitmately went with vortex 1-6.

 

Also, you made want to tune your rifle to shoot flatter, not reason it should come off target at 50 yards.

 

Get out and practice, its the only way to know what works for you. 

[twong11219 0]

Thanks for all your input so far. I see a lot of 3G'ers running scopes on theirs so that was the bases of my decision to go that route. I can't tell what distances they are engaging and what magnification they are pushing though. I saw the XTR being used often and was immediately sold when I saw one in the store. Drop it down to 1x and turn up the lums, and I can run with both eyes open like an RDS. I still haven't gotten use to shifting focus between eyes with the magnification turned up. I was asking another person that was shooting that day and he said if you got it, turn it up. I guess it was a matter of preference.

 

Now I guess it's all in perspective. I was watching the others roll through the course, and their rifles looked so flat with no noticeable muzzle climb. Now that I think about it, I must've cranked it up way too much. I was thinking that the reticle is flying all over the place, but in fact the target was most of the time in view except for that one incident. For high magnification and still keep a target in view after the shot breaks, my rifle must've been quite flat. I wish I had my friend record me to confirm it.

 

You're right Ronny and 2Alpha. 2 to neutralize, time+ stage. Struggled to stay on target, loosing time reacquiring my sight picture on the second string, getting all the hard shots and of all things having a Mike on the easiest target dead center on the stage. I got lucky I guess. With penalty, I got 4th place on the stage. 3rd if I didn't Mike one. Sad to say, I wouldn't have been so high if some others weren't having FTFs or other malfunctions while on the clock.

 

Definitely addicting. Will do again.

 

Ronny, cool Shongum vids on YT by the way.

[ronhonda 86]

Will (voodoodaddy)edited the videos, had a 3 camera set up.

Video shows that lead and titegroup equals a lot of smoke.

[DargZ 5]

 

Definitely addicting. Will do again.

 

 

That just means you need to show up for the August one now.

 

I incorrectly cranked up the magnification also.  I asked the guy who ran me if magnification was required and he said to use it.

 

I'm not going to comment on how badly I did but I'm glad no one recorded me.  Everyone would have had a good laugh though.

[twong11219 0]

The camera positions were great. It's nice to see the action from the front end as you don't get to see much when viewed from the back, and yes, plenty of smoke. Especially from the comped open guns. Someone commented about the puffs of smoke looking like a locomotive when seeing it behind a barricade.

 

Glad I got lead to feed my rifle. I'll turn down the magnification next time and run some lighter rounds. I don't doubt the magnification helped me with the hard shots, but definitely hard to track what your aiming at without the peripheral vision.

 

Vtec, you gotta whip out the Taccom next time. Maybe I'll have my White Oak ready too. Will it be an unfair advantage that my muzzle will be 10" closer to the target with my super long match barrel? Lol!

[ronhonda 86]

The camera positions were great. It's nice to see the action from the front end as you don't get to see much when viewed from the back, and yes, plenty of smoke. Especially from the comped open guns. Someone commented about the puffs of smoke looking like a locomotive when seeing it behind a barricade.

 

Glad I got lead to feed my rifle. I'll turn down the magnification next time and run some lighter rounds. I don't doubt the magnification helped me with the hard shots, but definitely hard to track what your aiming at without the peripheral vision.

 

Vtec, you gotta whip out the Taccom next time. Maybe I'll have my White Oak ready too. Will it be an unfair advantage that my muzzle will be 10" closer to the target with my super long match barrel? Lol!

I was running my Nowlin 1911 in 40s&w. No open for me.

[Shane45 807]

It doesnt matter what anyone else can do. It matters what you can do. What matters most is what your brain can accept as an image and process it. Some people can readily accept a red dot much better than they can accept a reticle with magnification. And for others the opposite is true. This has nothing to do with the equipment, its entirely a matter of what your brain can accept. I can run my 3x Acog down to around 25/30 yds ish without any significant drop off in my speed and accuracy compared to my red dot. But when the targets exceed 75 yds, the speed over a red dot becomes significant. Every different scenario is going to expose some compromise you have accepted in your optics selection. In my variable scopes I would run it on 3x generally speaking and if I had to go door kicking, Id either swap to a red dot if I had time or dial down to 1X(I assume in competitions your not allowed to change optics?). All my optics are on super high end QR mounts so I can easily swap at any time without a re-zero.

[twong11219 0]

Shane. You are definitely correct about the operator's preference with equipment and the limitations each one has. I own and have played with various RDS's at the range before. I've never tried a higher-end scope before so this was the purchase to fill the niche. I can get much more accurate shot placement and groupings at 100yds with this over a 4MOA RDS. It helps that my reticle has a ~0.9MOA dot in the center and a ~6MOA horse shoe around it. Turn on the lum, and it works as a nice and big dot.

 

I need more range time practicing various magnifications at various distances to find out what my personal preference is to balance speed and accuracy. Maybe I should just leave it at 1x and zoom in when I need the hard critical shots.

 

Now I know for handguns, there are basic things that you should be mindful of. (ie., using both hands, both eyes open, grip high, no cup and saucer hold, etc.) What is considered the best fundamentals for shooting with optics. Considering that you are running with the fixed 3x scope on, you can't adjust zoom to 1x, do you engage with both eyes open, or shut your non-shooting eye when you view through the scope. I'm right eye dominant and shooting with magnification up just renders my left eye useless. I can track a little to put my reticle in position to follow up with the right eye to do the final sight picture, but that's about it. The rest of the show is through the tube. This is the part I'm wondering. Am I doing what everyone else is doing or am I missing something here.

[2Alpha 6]

There really isn't any right or wrong.  It is faster to transition with both eyes open and shoot both eyes open even on magnification. But if you have to close one eye to make the shot then do so, especially on difficult shots.  What you want is enough magnification to be able to call you shot(50y open target is 1x), but not so much that you can't see where you want to transition to.  That is the benefit of scopes with huge FOV even when magnified. 

 

If at 50 yards, you lose a target do to recoil and have a hard time finding it, then you had too much magnification and poor technique and/or poorly tuned rifle. 

[twong11219 0]

Sounds fair. I'm a green horn so I'm gonna work on my skills before I start blaming my fishing gear for not catching any fish. One thing I will do next time is run lighter loads. Remy UMCs are much milder than Lake City. Gonna drop the zoom to increase my FOV.

[2Alpha 6]

milder load don't always work the comp well. 

[twong11219 0]

Damn, just can't win. So far, my comp's been pretty effective. No complaints, and it doesn't seem to blow off RO's ear protection.

[2Alpha 6]

To get the gun flat and soft, you need to tune the whole gun. Comp, adjustable gas block, BCG weight, buffer weight and spring.  And all this needs to be tuned to your shooting style. 

 

At the next rifle match ask to try a proper competition rifle that has been tuned correctly, you will be amazed at how flat and soft it will shoot.  But at a match like shongum, there probably will only be 1 or 2 tuned rifles