Buying AR parts online that contain an illegal part?

[Nickel1911 0]

I was online researching complete upper receivers and bumped into one that I really liked and was about to order. Then I realized it had a flash hider on it. My question is, how do you go about ordering something like that? Do you order it, then take it to your LGS and have them swap out the flash hider for a muzzle break, OR do you order it and have it shipped directly to your LGS so they can make the swap before your ever in possession of it?

[ogfarmer 138]

I suggest shipping to FFL directly

[JT Custom Guns 958]

There are several ways to go about it but in general the Flash Hider 

is Illegal only when mounted on a Semi Auto Rifle.

The Upper assy is not considered a Rifle so you are not in violation of any

laws in New Jersey. However, if you were to mount that upper on a lower, then

you would be in violation of the law.

 

As long as the shipper has no problems with it - have them ship the upper to

you directly, then remove the FH and get yourself a good quality Muzzle Break.

(Ebay, JSE Surplus, ect.).

Take the upper & your break to your dealer, gunsmith, ect. and have it pined

and then you can mount it with no worries.

 

Not sure where you are located; but we pin barrels - so if your anywhere near lacey Twp

you can give me a call and we can get you set-up.

 

Good Luck!

JT

[Nickel1911 0]

There are several ways to go about it but in general the Flash Hider

is Illegal only when mounted on a Semi Auto Rifle.

The Upper assy is not considered a Rifle so you are not in violation of any

laws in New Jersey. However, if you were to mount that upper on a lower, then

you would be in violation of the law.

 

As long as the shipper has no problems with it - have them ship the upper to

you directly, then remove the FH and get yourself a good quality Muzzle Break.

(Ebay, JSE Surplus, ect.).

Take the upper & your break to your dealer, gunsmith, ect. and have it pined

and then you can mount it with no worries.

 

Not sure where you are located; but we pin barrels - so if your anywhere near lacey Twp

you can give me a call and we can get you set-up.

 

Good Luck!

JT

Thanks JT! After I posted this thread I started thinking the same about the upper NOT being considered the rifle. But I wasn't sure how the law would interpret that. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm in Monmouth county. I missed my opportunity today as the upper was on gunbroker and the auction ended. Oh well, now I know. Thanks again

 

[JT Custom Guns 958]

Your Welcome!

 

if you looking for a rifle - call me.

i have several in stock, and a few on the way in

maybe we have something you can use, ready to shoot..........

[Nickel1911 0]

Your Welcome!

 

if you looking for a rifle - call me.

i have several in stock, and a few on the way in

maybe we have something you can use, ready to shoot..........

Thank you sir! I'll absolutely keep you in mind. Right now I'm trying my hand in my first AR build. So far, I have everything I need to build a complete lower. Now working on getting an upper (most likely an complete upper).

[JT Custom Guns 958]

O.K. - Sounds like you have a plan - Good Luck & Safe Shooting!

 

JT

[brocglock23 4]

There are several ways to go about it but in general the Flash Hider

is Illegal only when mounted on a Semi Auto Rifle.

The Upper assy is not considered a Rifle so you are not in violation of any

laws in New Jersey. However, if you were to mount that upper on a lower, then

you would be in violation of the law.

 

As long as the shipper has no problems with it - have them ship the upper to

you directly, then remove the FH and get yourself a good quality Muzzle Break.

(Ebay, JSE Surplus, ect.).

Take the upper & your break to your dealer, gunsmith, ect. and have it pined

and then you can mount it with no worries.

 

Not sure where you are located; but we pin barrels - so if your anywhere near lacey Twp

you can give me a call and we can get you set-up.

 

Good Luck!

JT

not trying to question someone who probably knows the law better then me but I thought he would only be okay if he didn't have a lower in his possession. If he had a lower he would have the materials in his possession to construct an illegal rifle.

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[KevD 0]

not trying to question someone who probably knows the law better then me but I thought he would only be okay if he didn't have a lower in his possession. If he had a lower he would have the materials in his possession to construct an illegal rifle.

 

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nah JT is totally right...

[Crusher 0]

I have to agree with brocglock23.

 

2C:39-1w(5) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

 

One can remain legal by not personally having possession (think in the same location/home/car) of all the parts to complete said firearm. So if you only have the upper you are good to go. If you have any compatable lower then you are not.

 

Also discussed here:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/52916-owning-evil-accessories/

[AdamaSys 0]

 

Take the upper & your break to your dealer, gunsmith, ect. and have it pined

and then you can mount it with no worries.

 

 

Is this step really necessary?  Without pinning it, sure, one can argue that you have the "potential" to put on a flash hider and create an illegal arrangement.  But if you were to dispose of said flash hider then that problem disappears.

[leadunderpressure 52]

Two problems. One, a threaded barrel is itself not allowed.

 

Two how do you own both an ar15 pistol and an ar15 rifle at the same time? You then have constructive intent to make a SBR.

 

The law is so badly written as to be unenforceable. I'm not volunteering to be the test case however.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Anselmo 87]

Is this step really necessary?  Without pinning it, sure, one can argue that you have the "potential" to put on a flash hider and create an illegal arrangement.  But if you were to dispose of said flash hider then that problem disappears.

 

You only get one evil feature.  Assuming the pistol grip, you can't have a threaded barrel.  If you have the pistol grip and threaded barrel, you need to pin something legal onto the end of the barrel or get rid of the threads.

[AdamaSys 0]

Two problems. One, a threaded barrel is itself not allowed.

 

 

You're right.  I had forgotten that.

[JT Custom Guns 958]

not trying to question someone who probably knows the law better then me but I thought he would only be okay if he didn't have a lower in his possession. If he had a lower he would have the materials in his possession to construct an illegal rifle.

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I would assume the discussion was about a rifle, not just an upper...................

[JT Custom Guns 958]

I have to agree with brocglock23.

 

2C:39-1w(5) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

 

One can remain legal by not personally having possession (think in the same location/home/car) of all the parts to complete said firearm. So if you only have the upper you are good to go. If you have any compatable lower then you are not.

 

Also discussed here:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/52916-owning-evil-accessories/

Again - I posted based on the end result.

If you are just going to buy an upper and NOT build a rifle - no problem.

But I would assume this discussion is based on a person asking question as they proceed

wit ha build. If the gun is assembled, it cannot have a threaded barrel so it MUST be pinned

[Nickel1911 0]

Extremely interesting. So, as long as all of the "evil" parts are not in the same dwellings, I'd still be on the right side of the law?

[Anselmo 87]

Extremely interesting. So, as long as all of the "evil" parts are not in the same dwellings, I'd still be on the right side of the law?

 

The law says "in the possession or under the control of the same person". 

[Nickel1911 0]

The law says "in the possession or under the control of the same person".

So it would behoove me to just have it sent to my LGS and stay on the safe side? Has anyone else ordered a complete upper and run into this dilemma?

[brocglock23 4]

Not to start an argument but it was just that paragraph down below that seemed off. I personally would have wrote

 

There are several ways to go about it but in general the flash hider is illegal if you have the other parts of the rifle in your possession. The upper assembly is not considered a rifle so you are not in any violation of any laws in NJ if you can not complete the rifle. Having any AR lower in your possession would make it a violate of NJ Law.

 

Just the word "mounted" and "possession" can get someone jammed up.

"I'm sorry Mr. D.A. I was told I just couldn't have it mounted on a Semi Auto Rifle. I didn't know having the parts in my possession would get me in trouble."

There are several ways to go about it but in general the Flash Hider

is Illegal only when mounted on a Semi Auto Rifle.

The Upper assy is not considered a Rifle so you are not in violation of any

laws in New Jersey. However, if you were to mount that upper on a lower, then

you would be in violation of the law.

 

[JT Custom Guns 958]

it always amuses me when someone who wants to argue starts off with

:Not to start an argument"

 

If your going to site the law - show me the statute that you are referring to?

 

If an upper is not mounted on a lower - it is NOT regulated.

Once the lower is attached to the lower it becomes a violation of the law because

it then would have more than one evil features - giving the first to be the pistol grip

handle, the next two would be the threaded barrel & the flash hider (neither of which

are illegal in NJ on there own, only in conjunction with an assembled Assault style rifle)

 

The regulated unit is the serialized lower. having an upper & a lower in your house is not

a violation unless they are assembles AND the assembled rifle falls under the Assault weapon

description in Title 13 / Chapter 54

 

And if you would like to check your facts - why not call the FIU at the NJ state police and ask

them?

[JT Custom Guns 958]

And AGAIN - I recommended the OP take the upper to be pinned since I assumed he would be

building a rifle.................

[brocglock23 4]

Below highlighted in green is what I was talking about and I'm NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT JT......... just trying to have a discussion. And I understand you recommended the OP take the upper to be pinned and more then likely he could have an upper with a flash hider, a bayonet lug, a grenade launcher attached shipped to his house and probably never have an issue as long as he didn't do anything else illegal. 

w."Assault firearm" means

(5)A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

 

[JT Custom Guns 958]

I have asked this question of the NJ State Police FIU and the response was:

"As long as the rifle is not assembled, and there is no intent to assemble an

assault rifle - the owner can receive an upper receiver wit ha threaded barrel

as long as is modified to conform before assembly"

 

I take that as they are not going to knock on your door for the threaded barrel or

flash hider as long as you do your due dilligance and get it pinnned (as I originally

suggested).

 

I strongly suggest if anyone has a question to contact the FIu and ask the question.

then record the time, date and response and the trooper's name for their records.

 

JMO

[pbkid6974 1]

guys this is really very easy to get around. if you leave one part for last (buffer spring, buffer, trigger, bcg etc.) then you do not own all the parts to complete a rifle. if you have a bunch of parts put together that looks like an "assault rifle" but doesn't actually function then you cant be charged with anything. just make sure one part to make the rifle go boom isnt there while your dealing with a situation like the OP.

[Nickel1911 0]

Thanks for the info and feedback guys. I do appreciate it. It's just another example of how confusing, frustrating and unfair the laws in NJ are.

[Crusher 0]

guys this is really very easy to get around. if you leave one part for last (buffer spring, buffer, trigger, bcg etc.) then you do not own all the parts to complete a rifle. if you have a bunch of parts put together that looks like an "assault rifle" but doesn't actually function then you cant be charged with anything. just make sure one part to make the rifle go boom isnt there while your dealing with a situation like the OP.

I agree with this. However, just being legal does NOT keep you from being charged with a crime you did not commit. All that requires is for the police to not be as we'll informed as all of us are trying to be as is evident by his tread. I do my best to first know the laws (not easy here) and then as a personal choice I try to limit any actions which may be misunderstood as a crime by the less informed. I don't want to pay the legal price required to 'educate' any LEO. With this in mind it is the AG that makes the decision as to how the LEOs will interpret the law and not the LEOs themselves. This means (as I understand it) that the NJSP Firearms Unit's opinions of legal interpretation DO NOT carry the force of law. Only the AG's do. If you want clarity then I think a signed letter from the AG's office would be required. Good luck getting that, but if anyone does please share with the rest of us.

 

Remember, any LEO can be mistaken, and many are with regard to the firearm laws here. Their mistakes end up being paid for with your funds going to your lawyer.