Transport of handguns in a range bag legal?

[Cmor1701d 0]

Normally I transport my pistols in a locked case separate from the unlocked ammo case, both in the locked trunk of my car.

If I put the pistols in an unlocked range bag for transport am I violating the law?

I normally drive to the range in PA.

 

If I stop to pick up a buddy and we take his SUV, would putting both gun and ammo containers in the rear change anything?

 

Thanks for all replies.

[plode 0]

Normally I transport my pistols in a locked case separate from the unlocked ammo case, both in the locked trunk of my car.

If I put the pistols in an unlocked range bag for transport am I violating the law?

I normally drive to the range in PA.

 

If I stop to pick up a buddy and we take his SUV, would putting both gun and ammo containers in the rear change anything?

 

Thanks for all replies.

 

If your buddy is in NJ, and you stop to pick him up with handguns in your vehicle, yes, you are violating a law.  This is a clear case of the absurdity of NJ's transport laws.  You cannot deviate from your home to range and back course with pistols in your vehicle.  Legally, it's questionable if even stopping for gas is legal while transporting handguns in your vehicle to the range. 

That being said, as long as your ammo isn't in the range bag, the pistols are fine inside of the range bag(as long as they are secured and in a zippered compartment), provided it's kept in the trunk/rear of your vehicle.  You do not need locks on the bag, but it doesn't hurt. 

[Tunaman 549]

If your buddy is in NJ, and you stop to pick him up with handguns in your vehicle, yes, you are violating a law.  This is a clear case of the absurdity of NJ's transport laws.  You cannot deviate from your home to range and back course with pistols in your vehicle.  Legally, it's questionable if even stopping for gas is legal while transporting handguns in your vehicle to the range. 

That being said, as long as your ammo isn't in the range bag, the pistols are fine inside of the range bag(as long as they are secured and in a zippered compartment), provided it's kept in the trunk/rear of your vehicle.  You do not need locks on the bag, but it doesn't hurt. 

according to Nappen,  the ammo can be laying on top of the gun in the bag...just as long as it is not loaded in the gun.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

If having a Range Bag and using it were against the law, I'd be doin' HARD TIME by now, lol!

 

Technically, you can literally throw unloaded and uncased guns in your trunk.  1,5, 20, all bouncin'-around and gettin' scratched to crap!  As long as you can't reach them from the driver's seat, you're GTG!

 

Is it wise to do so?  Probably not!  That's why I use a range bag!  And you can also have loaded mags in the range bag (which is yet another NJGF instant prize winner as the Longest Thread--Loaded Mags!).  No ammo in the gun and you're fine!

 

Do yourself a favor and stop unzipping your fly if you've decided to carpool.  It's done all the time, so relax and just work some overtime to pay for the fricken ammo!

 

Class dismissed, lol!

 

Dave

Shootist and Old Fudd!

[FishNJ 2]

my understanding for handgun transport... PLEASE correct me if i am misunderstanding. 

 

WHEN LOCKED IN THE TRUNK

- must be unloaded

- can be in range bag

- can be with ammo

 

WHEN IN THE MAIN PASSENGER COMPARTMENT (or accessible cargo area like an SUV)

- must be unloaded

- firearm must be cased and locked (see below), separate from ammo

- ammo need not be locked. 

 

Do the internal locks on handguns count? 

I believe for inter-state transfer, they must be secured so they are unavailable to the driver/passenger, so cased and locked. I would apply this to transport in-state when placing in the passenger compartment. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

my understanding for handgun transport... PLEASE correct me if i am misunderstanding. 

 

WHEN LOCKED IN THE TRUNK

- must be unloaded

- can be in range bag

- can be with ammo

 

WHEN IN THE MAIN PASSENGER COMPARTMENT (or accessible cargo area like an SUV)

- must be unloaded

- firearm must be cased and locked (see below), separate from ammo

- ammo need not be locked. 

 

Do the internal locks on handguns count? 

I believe for inter-state transfer, they must be secured so they are unavailable to the driver/passenger, so cased and locked. I would apply this to transport in-state when placing in the passenger compartment. 

 

Where's my Staples "EASY" button?  

 

THAT WAS EASY!

 

Internal locks don't count, especially if gun is inside passenger compartment.  Just use good common sense with SUV's:  put the range bag as far away from the driver as possible, and just throw a blanket over it.  Grandma used to say, "Out of sight, out of mind".  So now you can stop for an egg sandwich or to pee.  Be situation-ally "aware" and LOCK the vehicle.  Don't speed TOO fast, just act like the rest of the Jersey A-Holes and you'll fit right in like CAMO, lol!

 

Now go out and ENJOY your rights instead of questioning them to death, lol!

[alec.mc 180]

some good info above, about 99.9999999% of the shooters I know keep their guns and ammo in the same range bag, guns in the zippered gun rugs in the side pockets, ammo in main compartment. 

 

We never * Lock * our guns, we keep them unloaded and either in the trunk, or in my case in the bed of my pickup truck.

 

It's up to you to interpret the law, its very vauge and gray.

 

It just says secured..... well, secured to me is a snotty towel I found lying in the street. Who is to decide? Just keep it in the trunk, or out of reach.

[vladtepes 1,060]

required to be locked when traveling from state to state.. if in an SUV or other vehicle without a separate compartment (trunk)

[PK90 3,570]

The 'can be' doesn't matter. The 'can not' and 'do not' counts.

 

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[kman 56]

Lock them up and put them in nondescript containers so that you maximize your FOURTH amendment rights. Remember that if it gives no outside indication that it contains a firearm, there is no probable cause to search. If it is locked, then a cop is going to have less ability to search anyhow because he can't physically open it without physically damaging it. A judge who believes guns should be banned might very well dismiss charges on the basis of an unjustified search.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Cmor1701d 0]

Thanks for all the replies. Now, back to the range.

[MicroMag 0]

My guns go in their plastic cases, unloaded of course, and the cases go into the range bag, along with several boxes of ammo. That goes in my "trunk", as I drive a hatchback without a separate trunk.

 

Yes, I stop for gas. Yes, I stop for coffee and a bagel. I don't display any NRA bumper stickers/window decals, I don't leave shell casings in the cupholders, don't do anything that might indicate firearms in the vehicle.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Every firearm owner should read the law for themselves.  The relevant sections are NJSA 2C:39-5 and 6.   I'm not a lawyer.  Read it for yourself or ask your attorney for his opinion.   Here's what the law says:

 

NJSA 2C:39-5 lists what you can’t possess in NJ.  The is the list of things you can’t transport (or even possess) is:

• Machine gun
• Handgun
• Rifles and shotguns (without obtaining a firearms perchaser identification card)
• A loaded rifle or shotgun
• Other weapons   
• Any weapon on school grounds including imitation weapons
• An assault firearm

 

NJSA 2C:39-5 sections e and f lists the exemptions to the rule above.  This section tells you when you can transport and it only applies to handguns, rifles, and shotguns.   If you follow the rules in section g below, it is legal to transport handguns, rifles, and shotguns:

• Between a gun shop and you home or business, between your home and business, between your home or business and a gunsmith or between residences if you are moving.
• To a rifle range if you’re a member and the range has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent
• To hunt with a valid hunting license
• To or from any exhibition or display of firearms (there is a list of organizations that can host) as long as the superintendent has been notified of the event at least 30 days prior

 

Finally, section g tells you how you can transport.

"All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.”

[Smokin .50 1,907]

So that means as long as they're locked in the trunk of my sedan I can literally throw 30 hand guns into the trunk so they bounce-around and scratch the hell out of each other!  Not that I would, but the phrase "OR locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, blah, blah blah, etc." is the official written word of law.  NO plastic cases, NO trigger locks, NO mini pad locks on gun cases.  Just "secured" via a locked trunk!

 

Mind you I use a Range Bag with sleeves to hold the guns (unloaded, of course).  Same range bag can hold loaded mags or speed-loaders--or BOTH!

 

If I need to eat instead of crash I stop and eat (I'm a diabetic).  Diabetics pee more than regular folks, so I stop for that too.

 

One has to exercise common sense as well as follow the intent of the law.  So don't leave a hand gun in the trunk and go do errands all around town for a week.  Leave the 12 ga. pump in the trunk instead, lol!

 

Dave

[jerseygti337 0]

How about a pickup with a cap? Do guns have to be in the bed or can they be in the cab (access cab)? I really don't like the idea of them bouncing around and a cap window isn't really that secure but there's no where really that's not accessible from the driver seat.

[halbautomatisch 60]

You could legally transport a handgun and ammo, within NJ to a legal destination, by putting both of them in a plastic shopping bag, tying the bag shut and throwing it on your back seat if you wanted to, gun must not be loaded.

 

I personally wouldn't transport this way since I wouldn't want to draw any undue attention.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

How about a pickup with a cap? Do guns have to be in the bed or can they be in the cab (access cab)? I really don't like the idea of them bouncing around and a cap window isn't really that secure but there's no where really that's not accessible from the driver seat.

 

This is a GOOD question, and comes up here every once in a while.  Legally, your situation is "open to interpretation", since to deny access to minors and others requires that the guns be stowed in such a way so they can't be easily taken from you.  If your cap has one of those locks that looks better than it functions, then everything you own and put back there is subject to theft "at a moments notice".  I've been around firearms for over 44 years and have several friends who have transported arms in such a pick-up truck.  Here's the common-sense approach that I'd take:

 

Handguns:

 

My Range Bag would be as far away from the driver as possible, INSIDE the rear of the cab on the "bench seat".  Unloaded hand guns would be in some sort of "locked" case (my Range Bag), even one of those tiny pad locks run through the zipper ends counts.  Bag would be covered with a blanket or some other property to hide it from thieves.  Ammo would be in an ammo can with a hasp and a padlock (for loaded mags and speed-loaders) and stored either in the opposite side of the bench inside the cab or stowed in the truck's bed (since it's weatherproof).  IANAL, and my take is you'd be "legal" at this point, since ammo can is locked and stowed separately, proving to all that you "have no illegal intent" to put the two together (load the guns to knock-over a 7-11).  Anything else you do to further inhibit illegal use is up to you.  Some here would consider it "overkill" to use a trigger lock on each gun, or wire-tie it (like at a Gun Show, so the action can't go into battery), or to transport each hand gun in its' original hard plastic case with each case having its' own small pad lock or combo lock.  Some here would do both (trigger lock and case lock).  It all boils-down to WHERE you're going and HOW LONG it takes to get there:  If you're 10 minutes from the range maybe you don't need to go the trigger lock and case lock route.  If you're traveling interstate with hand guns (especially stopping to sleep) perhaps a second level of security (check laws of the States you're traveling through for which level that State needs) isn't such a bad idea....  You just have to employ a little "Common Sense"......  

 

 

Long guns:

 

Would be in a locked gun case up on the bench.  Ammo separate in a locked ammo can, as above.  Both covered with a blanket and/or ammo can stowed in the bed.  For interstate transport, especially with overnight stays I'd use wire ties on lever actions and semi-autos, remove bolts and store in a hand towel for bolt actions.  You want to temporarily disable the firearm so it's a PITA to use, IF stolen.

 

 

IANAL and in 44 years of being involved in the shooting sports I've never heard of ANYONE being jacked-up on false BS charges for transporting in a pick-up.  Believe it or not, Cops are actually human beings who just want to go home every night-----and some of them drive pick-ups too!  It all boils-down to INTENT and RESPONSIBILITY!  Be responsible and your intent will never be questioned.  A good friend of mine says this:  ONLY do one thing "against the law" at a time".  So if you intend to speed, make sure you have your bases covered when transporting firearms.  Sounds like great advice to me!

 

Dave

Shootist and Old Fudd

[olderguy 0]

I use a golf bag for long guns and a briefcase for handguns.  Nobody ever asks questions, but I need to keep the vehicle locked so a shitbag doesn't steal anything and get the surprise of his life.

[maintenanceguy 510]

How about a pickup with a cap? Do guns have to be in the bed or can they be in the cab (access cab)? I really don't like the idea of them bouncing around and a cap window isn't really that secure but there's no where really that's not accessible from the driver seat.

 

"All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.”

 

 

You could legally transport a handgun and ammo, within NJ to a legal destination, by putting both of them in a plastic shopping bag, tying the bag shut and throwing it on your back seat if you wanted to, gun must not be loaded.

 

I personally wouldn't transport this way since I wouldn't want to draw any undue attention.

 

I transported a handgun home from the shop in a tied plastic bag a few days ago.  Bought a gun and ammo.  Dealer put the gun in one plastic bag, the ammo in the other. I drive a pickup with no cap, the gun and ammo went on the passenger side floor with the bags tied shut.   I'm not suggesting you do this because if I had been stopped by a clairvoyant cop that could tell what was in the bag, I probably would have been arrested.  But my attorney would have explained that I was following the law to the letter.

[kman 56]

You could legally transport a handgun and ammo, within NJ to a legal destination, by putting both of them in a plastic shopping bag, tying the bag shut and throwing it on your back seat if you wanted to, gun must not be loaded.

 

I personally wouldn't transport this way since I wouldn't want to draw any undue attention.

That wouldn't work because a plastic shopping bag is not a "case, gunbox or securely tied package"

 

 

 

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[PK90 3,570]

That wouldn't work because a plastic shopping bag is not a "case, gunbox or securely tied package"

 

 

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

"plastic shopping bag, tying the bag shut"

 

Sure it would, as long as it was tied.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

That wouldn't work because a plastic shopping bag is not a "case, gunbox or securely tied package"

 

 

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

This law came into effect around the '68 Control Act.  At that time you could have wrapped a rifle OR hand gun in brown paper (like an old school book), and securely tied it with "bakery" string (using several pieces, so it is REALLY secure).  And you know what--YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING TODAY!  Paul and I have both been around long enough to know the real story, lol!

 

Dave

[Cmor1701d 0]

Great discussion and remarks.

I should have noted that when I stop to get my friend it is either at the office or a diner, both if which are on the route to the range. I stop for a bathroom break and he watches my car, then gets in when I get back. ;-)

[Fishpaw 17]

you could have wrapped a rifle OR hand gun in brown paper (like an old school book), and securely tied it with "bakery" string (using several pieces, so it is REALLY secure).  And you know what--YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING TODAY! .....

 

Dave

 

I once picked up a handgun that I had some work done on from a gunsmith, and forgot to bring a case for it. Thats exactly how he gave it back to me....Brown butcher paper and string....Looked like it could have come from a butcher, or bakery or even an old school laundry.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Great discussion and remarks.

I should have noted that when I stop to get my friend it is either at the office or a diner, both if which are on the route to the range. I stop for a bathroom break and he watches my car, then gets in when I get back. ;-)

 

Glad to be of service.  Being a responsible firearms owner is what it's all about.  Enjoy the hobby!

[mipafox 438]

For the PA side of your trip, if you don't have a carry permit from any state:

 

- You still need to be directly to and from the range with handguns. There is an exception in PA for "rally point" (unlike NJ) but not for lunch or even taking a pee.

- Loaded detachable mags cannot be in the same compartment of the same container of the firearm. That means gun in one pocket, loaded mags in another pocket of the range bag. Loose ammo with the gun is fine.

[halbautomatisch 60]

 

 

I transported a handgun home from the shop in a tied plastic bag a few days ago.  Bought a gun and ammo.  Dealer put the gun in one plastic bag, the ammo in the other. I drive a pickup with no cap, the gun and ammo went on the passenger side floor with the bags tied shut.   I'm not suggesting you do this because if I had been stopped by a clairvoyant cop that could tell what was in the bag, I probably would have been arrested.  But my attorney would have explained that I was following the law to the letter.

This is because NJ law requires dealers to deliver firearms separately from the ammo to the customer, this "separate" requirement does not apply to gun owners transporting them after purchase.

 

This may be where some of the confusion lies with some people thinking guns and ammo can't be in the same bag when transporting.

[TulsaJohn 1]

Firearms are a sport to me, just like mountain bike are to others. So what about roof racks for our long guns?......just kidding.

[quikz 34]

Now here's a 'twist'..... What about the above said circumstances EXCEPT, walking TO AND FROM the car, truck, SUV???

 

[olderguy 0]

Now here's a 'twist'..... What about the above said circumstances EXCEPT, walking TO AND FROM the car, truck, SUV???

 

You are most likely doing it on your own property or range property, except when leaving a store/FFL, then you are covered under the statute.