quikz 34 Posted August 10, 2013 What if not a house? What if Apt, Condo, tower setup? Elevators? Gunsmith is on 4th floor in Suite A??? What if you are in a Korman Suites, on the other hand, 'regular' hotels I would venture, no. More over it says "place of business". So, as you are walking fron your "place of business", to your car, you cross 150 yards of parking lot also in path of a pizza shop along the way. Resdiences. What if you have TWO or maybe even 3 residences in NJ? Just trying to illustrate the utterly UN-'common sense-icle' law. WHAT are they REALLY trying to say??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olderguy 0 Posted August 11, 2013 WHAT are they REALLY trying to say??? They are really trying to say that they don't want guns in New Jersey, and the only people that they can actually control are the law-abiding citizens. So they make it tougher and tougher on the law-abiding citizens because they don't know how to handle the criminals within our "progressive" judicial system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayM26 0 Posted August 12, 2013 - Loaded detachable mags cannot be in the same compartment of the same container of the firearm. That means gun in one pocket, loaded mags in another pocket of the range bag. Loose ammo with the gun is fine. I always wondered about this. So if I have my Midway USA Range bag with ammo loaded mags in the external mag pocket and have that locked with a lock on zippers, and my guns inside the bag (no mags loaded in them obviously) locked in their own cases or gun lock installed on each gun, would I be breaking the law? I read and hear so much that ammo and guns need to be separated and locked in NJ. My friend advises to put the ammo in an ammo can and lock it. Guns in range bag with those locked. My preference is to just carry my range bag and that's it. I have no problem locking everything in the range bag if that is legal. Can you guys clear this up? Good discussion in this thread BTW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leahcim 680 Posted August 12, 2013 I always wondered about this. So if I have my Midway USA Range bag with ammo loaded mags in the external mag pocket and have that locked with a lock on zippers, and my guns inside the bag (no mags loaded in them obviously) locked in their own cases or gun lock installed on each gun, would I be breaking the law? I read and hear so much that ammo and guns need to be separated and locked in NJ. My friend advises to put the ammo in an ammo can and lock it. Guns in range bag with those locked. My preference is to just carry my range bag and that's it. I have no problem locking everything in the range bag if that is legal. Can you guys clear this up? Good discussion in this thread BTW. I think that was referring to the PA side of a trip from NJ to a PA range, where the person does not posses a CCW permit. Within NJ, NJ statute applies (N.J.S.2C:39-5 g): "shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." Nothing has to be locked (unless you put it in the trunk, then the trunk has to be locked). I do not see any statutiry reference to loaded magazines or separate containers, or locking containers for anything--maybe I missed something though. I have stated before that I believe a ziplock bag on the passenger seat would qualify as "closed and fastened case," although I would not practice or recommend this--no one else needs to know what you have your car, especially during a traffic stop! I just put my closed and fastened range bag, loaded magazines and all, in the trunk--or in a pannier if I am riding my bicycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted August 12, 2013 I always wondered about this. So if I have my Midway USA Range bag with ammo loaded mags in the external mag pocket and have that locked with a lock on zippers, and my guns inside the bag (no mags loaded in them obviously) locked in their own cases or gun lock installed on each gun, would I be breaking the law? As I said, and as was subsequently pointed out, I was talking about the PA side of the trip. There would be no reason to zip tie or lock and guns or loaded magazines in PA. In PA, you can put the gun in a bag of loose ammo as long as it is not loaded. Loaded mags must be in a separate compartment of the range bag, and you don't have to lock or cable tie anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 510 Posted August 12, 2013 ...I do not see any statutiry reference to loaded magazines or separate containers, or locking containers for anything--maybe I missed something though. I have stated before that I believe a ziplock bag on the passenger seat would qualify as "closed and fastened case," although I would not practice or recommend this--no one else needs to know what you have your car, especially during a traffic stop! I just put my closed and fastened range bag, loaded magazines and all, in the trunk--or in a pannier if I am riding my bicycle. You;re right, no statutory reference. However, a loaded magazine could be construed as part of the firearm and therefore a loaded mag could be considered a loaded firearm. All it takes is an anti-2A prosecutor to convince an uninformed jury that a magazine is part of the gun and you've won a 5 year stay on the state's dime. And there are plenty of anti-2A prosecutors and it's pretty easy to find an anti-2A jury in NJ. I'll carry my mags unloaded while I'm in NJ. Silly that I can load them as soon as I cross the bridge out of NJ and actually carry the gun around with me. Silly NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duppie 73 Posted August 13, 2013 You;re right, no statutory reference. However, a loaded magazine could be construed as part of the firearm and therefore a loaded mag could be considered a loaded firearm. All it takes is an anti-2A prosecutor to convince an uninformed jury that a magazine is part of the gun and you've won a 5 year stay on the state's dime. And there are plenty of anti-2A prosecutors and it's pretty easy to find an anti-2A jury in NJ. I'll carry my mags unloaded while I'm in NJ. Silly that I can load them as soon as I cross the bridge out of NJ and actually carry the gun around with me. Silly NJ. I'll ask you again as I have in just about every thread where you've expressed this unsubstantiated and alarmist view on loaded mags. Can you provide any documented incident where anyone was stopped and prosecuted solely for transporting loaded mags in the state of NJ? Please take your time....we'll wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted August 13, 2013 I'll ask you again as I have in just about every thread where you've expressed this unsubstantiated and alarmist view on loaded mags. Can you provide any documented incident where anyone was stopped and prosecuted solely for transporting loaded mags in the state of NJ? Please take your time....we'll wait. I don't know if it has ever happened. But if it happens every week of the year, you probably wouldn't be able to find information about it. BTW, I'm not saying loaded mags are illegal, I doubt they are. But somebody brought up this tired old argument of "find me a case" about hollowpoints with no other crimes. It doesn't come up often, and it never makes the news. Oh wait, it did make the news a couple weeks ago. Probably won't see another one in the news for 10 years. Doesn't mean nobody ever went to jail for it. Find me a case of somebody being busted for having an unloaded Chiappa in their car on the way to their brother's house. Heck, find me a case of somebody being busted for having a .22 bolt action in their trunk on their way to their brother's house with no FID and in the absence of another crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leahcim 680 Posted August 13, 2013 I don't know if it has ever happened. But if it happens every week of the year, you probably wouldn't be able to find information about it. BTW, I'm not saying loaded mags are illegal, I doubt they are. But somebody brought up this tired old argument of "find me a case" about hollowpoints with no other crimes. It doesn't come up often, and it never makes the news. Oh wait, it did make the news a couple weeks ago. Probably won't see another one in the news for 10 years. Doesn't mean nobody ever went to jail for it. Find me a case of somebody being busted for having an unloaded Chiappa in their car on the way to their brother's house. Heck, find me a case of somebody being busted for having a .22 bolt action in their trunk on their way to their brother's house with no FID and in the absence of another crime. Thing is there is specific language in the law that would prohibit driving around with HP or unloaded handguns--outside of the explicit exceptions that are carved out. I do not see anything explicit about a loaded magazine being construed as loaded gun. I am just saying it would be more of a stretch--IMHO it doesn't even qualify as a penumbra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duppie 73 Posted August 13, 2013 I don't know if it has ever happened. But if it happens every week of the year, you probably wouldn't be able to find information about it. BTW, I'm not saying loaded mags are illegal, I doubt they are. But somebody brought up this tired old argument of "find me a case" about hollowpoints with no other crimes. It doesn't come up often, and it never makes the news. Oh wait, it did make the news a couple weeks ago. Probably won't see another one in the news for 10 years. Doesn't mean nobody ever went to jail for it. Find me a case of somebody being busted for having an unloaded Chiappa in their car on the way to their brother's house. Heck, find me a case of somebody being busted for having a .22 bolt action in their trunk on their way to their brother's house with no FID and in the absence of another crime. My wording is quite deliberate......I specified prosecuted. you and I know we can be stopped for any manner of things but if it goes as far as being arrested and prosecuted there would most definitely be a paper trail...thus documentation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayM26 0 Posted August 13, 2013 My wording is quite deliberate......I specified prosecuted. you and I know we can be stopped for any manner of things but if it goes as far as being arrested and prosecuted there would most definitely be a paper trail...thus documentation. Thanks guys. I know this topic is always a heated debate but I'd rather be safe than sorry being new to this hobby. This is last thing I need to get nailed with and end up doing time for no good reason. I know this would be an extreme case and wrong place at wrong time. Just not something any of us needs. It's already hard enough waiting for my FID and P2P's to come back. LOL! I think just the range bag it is for me then and I'll separate ammo and guns within the bag each locked for added measure. This way if I do go in front of a judge or jury for whatever reason (God forbid) its a little extra cushion for my defense. Also, I read other threads and heated debate on empty and loaded mags when traveling. Like many, I prefer to do all my prep work and load mags at home and be ready when I get to the range instead of wasting my needed time at the port loading them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted August 13, 2013 I'll ask you again as I have in just about every thread where you've expressed this unsubstantiated and alarmist view on loaded mags. Can you provide any documented incident where anyone was stopped and prosecuted solely for transporting loaded mags in the state of NJ? Please take your time....we'll wait. Duppie you're on your game! Too funny! Once again we're the victims of OPINION. Hey, I got me an idea: Let's everybody stop 100 feet from a red light, so that way we can't be prosecuted for running the red! It never ceases to amaze me how many times this same question comes-up. By it's very nature, Forums exist to exchange ideas. What boggles my mind is that on this very Forum exists PAGES of actual law, painstakingly written for all to explore. So why can't people just READ it? And who would be stupid enough to take actual legal advice from a complete stranger hiding behind a screen name? Oxymoronic, ain't it?? LOL! Here's one more from the LAW books, and not an OPINION! All of you guys with modern guns are in for a real EYE-OPENER: A completely loaded black powder rifle (traditional side-lock OR modern in-line) being transported all around town (in the usual legal way, NOT within hands' reach) is completely legal, so long as the source of ignition is NOT yet applied to said rifle! So if I can drive-around all day with a loaded rifle and all I need to make it "go BANG" is to apply a percussion cap or #209 shotgun primer, or put some 4F powder in my flintlock's pan, WHY do you think that a loaded mag somewhere in a vehicle equates to a loaded gun? While out deer hunting, if you don't fire the gun, you simply only need to remove the ability to ignite the main charge to make it "unloaded" according to NJ State Law! And then you can stop and eat and drink beer and be a real American and buy explosives on the way home! The loaded magazine issue gets confused with the HOLLOW POINT ROUNDS issue, since some think that they're interchangeable, which they are NOT! Always treat HP in NJ as if they're a hand gun in and of themselves (don't just drive around with them while not going directly to and from the exempted locations). So even having mags loaded with HP while en-route to the range is fine, provided you adhere to the HP laws and the loaded mags are NOT in the gun! We really need a "sticky" for this, lol! Take care all and have fun and be SAFE! Dave Shootist and Old Fudd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leahcim 680 Posted August 13, 2013 We really need a "sticky" for this, lol! Take care all and have fun and be SAFE! Dave Shootist and Old Fudd Like that is going to help? ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duppie 73 Posted August 13, 2013 Like that is going to help? ;-) I don't see a sticky helping either.....there is so much misinformation and paranoia out there stirred up by RO's,lawyers,cops,shooters,your hairdresser's friend's cousin's lover's mom's dealer et al that I fully expect to see this very same topic in 2 weeks with the same experts and alarmists chiming in with the same myths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted August 13, 2013 I don't see a sticky helping either.....there is so much misinformation and paranoia out there stirred up by RO's,lawyers,cops,shooters,your hairdresser's friend's cousin's lover's mom's dealer et al that I fully expect to see this very same topic in 2 weeks with the same experts and alarmists chiming in with the same myths. On second thought, you're right again, lol! So I'll be watching for it too, lol! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted August 16, 2013 I'll ask you again as I have in just about every thread where you've expressed this unsubstantiated and alarmist view on loaded mags. Can you provide any documented incident where anyone was stopped and prosecuted solely for transporting loaded mags in the state of NJ? Please take your time....we'll wait. The loaded mags thing was an opinion of Attorney Evan Nappen who said that the magazine could be construed as part of the firearm. He did not say where he got this from. It could be his own interpretation of the law OR based on an actual case that came into his office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halbautomatisch 60 Posted August 17, 2013 The loaded mags thing was an opinion of Attorney Evan Nappen who said that the magazine could be construed as part of the firearm. He did not say where he got this from. It could be his own interpretation of the law OR based on an actual case that came into his office. I don't think it's to much of a stretch to imagine a "I don't like guns" judge in NJ to interpret the law that way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted August 17, 2013 You;re right, no statutory reference. However, a loaded magazine could be construed as part of the firearm and therefore a loaded mag could be considered a loaded firearm. All it takes is an anti-2A prosecutor to convince an uninformed jury that a magazine is part of the gun and you've won a 5 year stay on the state's dime. And there are plenty of anti-2A prosecutors and it's pretty easy to find an anti-2A jury in NJ. I'll carry my mags unloaded while I'm in NJ. Silly that I can load them as soon as I cross the bridge out of NJ and actually carry the gun around with me. Silly NJ. please dont spread misinformation.. loaded mags are NOT a loaded mag.. its not the law.. dont make things up.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted August 17, 2013 Duppie you're on your game! Too funny! Once again we're the victims of OPINION. Hey, I got me an idea: Let's everybody stop 100 feet from a red light, so that way we can't be prosecuted for running the red! It never ceases to amaze me how many times this same question comes-up. By it's very nature, Forums exist to exchange ideas. What boggles my mind is that on this very Forum exists PAGES of actual law, painstakingly written for all to explore. So why can't people just READ it? And who would be stupid enough to take actual legal advice from a complete stranger hiding behind a screen name? Oxymoronic, ain't it?? LOL! Here's one more from the LAW books, and not an OPINION! All of you guys with modern guns are in for a real EYE-OPENER: A completely loaded black powder rifle (traditional side-lock OR modern in-line) being transported all around town (in the usual legal way, NOT within hands' reach) is completely legal, so long as the source of ignition is NOT yet applied to said rifle! So if I can drive-around all day with a loaded rifle and all I need to make it "go BANG" is to apply a percussion cap or #209 shotgun primer, or put some 4F powder in my flintlock's pan, WHY do you think that a loaded mag somewhere in a vehicle equates to a loaded gun? While out deer hunting, if you don't fire the gun, you simply only need to remove the ability to ignite the main charge to make it "unloaded" according to NJ State Law! And then you can stop and eat and drink beer and be a real American and buy explosives on the way home! The loaded magazine issue gets confused with the HOLLOW POINT ROUNDS issue, since some think that they're interchangeable, which they are NOT! Always treat HP in NJ as if they're a hand gun in and of themselves (don't just drive around with them while not going directly to and from the exempted locations). So even having mags loaded with HP while en-route to the range is fine, provided you adhere to the HP laws and the loaded mags are NOT in the gun! We really need a "sticky" for this, lol! Take care all and have fun and be SAFE! Dave Shootist and Old Fudd we have a huge sticky that no one already reads.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted August 17, 2013 please dont spread misinformation.. loaded mags are NOT a loaded mag firearm. its not the law.. dont make things up.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfkhunter 1 Posted August 29, 2013 I keep mine in a large plastic storage bin that locks simple! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites