Utah CCW - carrying / transporting to PA

[OchoBlue 3]

What precautions do you take when entering / exiting nj to CCW in PA ?

[checko 180]

I make sure my gun is in the trunk, unloaded, while in NJ.

[maintenanceguy 510]

unloaded, and cased.  In the trunk if in my car, behind drivers seat if in my truck - so I'm legal.   Everything out of sight - so nobody has any reasonable suspicion or any reason to ask questions.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

unloaded, and cased.  In the trunk if in my car, behind drivers seat if in my truck - so I'm legal.   Everything out of sight - so nobody has any reasonable suspicion or any reason to ask questions.

 

Precisely that. Unloaded, encased, and inside a "generic looking" Deep Outdoors bag (not a name brand range bag) and behind the driver's seat in my SUV.

[OchoBlue 3]

Do you stick with FMJ or something like guard dog or hornady critical defense ?

 

Oh and thanks for the feedback !

[checko 180]

I have federal EFMJ loaded up.   I know the terminal ballistics leave something to be desired but I figure local smokeys in NJ wont consider it "hollow point" ammo. 

[NYMetsFan86 9]

Ive heard some say they carry a printout from the PA AG website showing the reciprocity...Could be a good idea and doesn't take much to carry a piece of paper in your pocket. Not every LEO knows every single law, you never know.

[mipafox 438]

 

Ive heard some say they carry a printout from the PA AG website showing the reciprocity...Could be a good idea and doesn't take much to carry a piece of paper in your pocket. Not every LEO knows every single law, you never know.

 

 

I often do this while traveling, as well as FOPA (which won't help NJ people) based on that failed case against Port Authority years back because the court ruled it was unreasonable for the guy to expect the cop to take his word for the law or expect the cop to check the law when informed of it. I highlight the parts I might need to show some buffoon.

[Dirt diver 0]

Ok, not to hyjack this thread but something popped in my mind. Say you have a Utah ccw and plan on carrying in pa for self defense on a daily basis. Even if you are properly transporting while in nj How do you get around the transport exemptions while still in this wacky state like needing to go to range etc... If you aren't going to an approved location are you illegally transporting until you hit the border and then the same scenerio applies when returning. Am I missing something? I guess you can always say that you are going to a pa range.

[RS1200XL 4]

Ok, not to hyjack this thread but something popped in my mind. Say you have a Utah ccw and plan on carrying in pa for self defense on a daily basis. Even if you are properly transporting while in nj How do you get around the transport exemptions while still in this wacky state like needing to go to range etc... If you aren't going to an approved location are you illegally transporting until you hit the border and then the same scenerio applies when returning. Am I missing something? I guess you can always say that you are going to a pa range.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one!

 

From what I understand, when leaving NJ you are covered under FOPA since its interstate travel.  NJ laws only hold true during intrastate travel.  That being said, we are behind enemy lines and you are taking a risk anytime you leave your house with a firearm in NJ.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one!

 

From what I understand, when leaving NJ you are covered under FOPA since its interstate travel.  NJ laws only hold true during intrastate travel.  That being said, we are behind enemy lines and you are taking a risk anytime you leave your house with a firearm in NJ.

Another non-lawyer here so check with your real lawyer for the real answer.

 

But my answer is that FOPA covers you if you are traveling across state lines from "a place where it is lawful to possess" to "a place where it is lawful to possess"  the firearm.  I can lawfully possess at home and in America so as long as I'm traveling between the two, I'm covered.  So follow FOPA rules which are basically the same as NJ  except that FOPA says  ammo "separate" from firearm and NJ law just says unloaded.

[Dirt diver 0]

Makes sense. Thanks

[mipafox 438]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one!

 

From what I understand, the only people that believe that are from Jersey.

 

Everybody else in the world knows it's not true, including the people that wrote it and specifically changed the language so that it would NOT protect you from the laws in your state of origin or destination, although apparently the changes were not indisputable enough.

 

That being said, it does say what it says. Everybody knows what it means, but it does NOT clearly spell that out.

 

Only one thing is for sure. Based upon the recent 3rd Circuit ruling, in NJ and PA it applies ONLY while you are in a vehicle. Any of you guys who think it covers you from any place you can have it and carry it to any place you can have it and carry it see that coming? (Gee, I wonder why they added "Carry" to it)

 

So, if you live in an apartment, it sure as hell doesn't cover you walking to your car in jersey. That part is settled until you get to the US Supreme Court after 4 years waiting in jail.

[Fabricator 0]

Perfect timing for this , I'm going to be traveling to philly more and more now for work. Trying to come up with a routine once I cross over the bridge. Really don't want to just pull over somewere and go in the trunk and holster up exposing myself. Any suggestions...

[checko 180]

Perfect timing for this , I'm going to be traveling to philly more and more now for work. Trying to come up with a routine once I cross over the bridge. Really don't want to just pull over somewere and go in the trunk and holster up exposing myself. Any suggestions...

gas?

[Back on target 0]

I suggest not exposing yourself and carrying.

You will be questioned for one or the other. Lol.

 

 

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[mipafox 438]

Perfect timing for this , I'm going to be traveling to philly more and more now for work. Trying to come up with a routine once I cross over the bridge. Really don't want to just pull over somewere and go in the trunk and holster up exposing myself. Any suggestions...

I would suggest parking in a discrete but public area, having the gun in a fag bag and bringing it from the trunk back into the car, and arming up in the driver's seat.

 

I would also suggest being discrete in general in Philly. Philly is the only part of PA that is part of jersey. There is a possibility of you getting jacked up if encountered by police. I don't give a shit, because I know my business, I know their training, I know the law, and they damn well will know I know it. But it's likely you don't, and some of them might play you in an encounter. If that happens, it could be mentally rough. And considering you are jersey on an out of state license, anything could happen.

 

Be discrete, know the law. I would carry the section of 6109 that allows you to carry, and carry FOPA (we r stupid here), and carry the reciprocity for your permit from the AG page. Know exactly what you are doing, tell them, answer no questions except for pointing at the paper.

 

If you are discrete, the chances of this coming up are nearly zero. But since you are traveling there routinely, a few minutes of prep is worthwhile.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I would suggest parking in a discrete but public area, having the gun in a fag bag and bringing it from the trunk back into the car, and arming up in the driver's seat.

 

I would also suggest being discrete in general in Philly. Philly is the only part of PA that is part of jersey. There is a possibility of you getting jacked up if encountered by police. I don't give a shit, because I know my business, I know their training, I know the law, and they damn well will know I know it. But it's likely you don't, and some of them might play you in an encounter. If that happens, it could be mentally rough. And considering you are jersey on an out of state license, anything could happen.

 

Be discrete, know the law. I would carry the section of 6109 that allows you to carry, and carry FOPA (we r stupid here), and carry the reciprocity for your permit from the AG page. Know exactly what you are doing, tell them, answer no questions except for pointing at the paper.

 

If you are discrete, the chances of this coming up are nearly zero. But since you are traveling there routinely, a few minutes of prep is worthwhile.

 

 

funny story.. I also suggest being discrete.. and FYI the on ramp to the Walt Whitman is not discrete.. 

I was not really thinking.. heading back into NJ and pulled over on the ramp to throw my gun in the trunk... cop rolls up behind me... at this point I have a handgun in my hand that I am putting in the trunk (unloaded at this point)...  the cop yells "driver get back in your vehicle and move on" that was the end of the event.. I am sure it could have gone worse.. lol

[deerpark 83]

Ive heard some say they carry a printout from the PA AG website showing the reciprocity...Could be a good idea and doesn't take much to carry a piece of paper in your pocket. Not every LEO knows every single law, you never know.

 

Especially in Philly or what they call, "a city of the first class". 

 

Philly cops DGAF about a UTAH CCW.  They've arrested people with instate PA CCWs (LTCFs), simply because they were not issued by Philadelphia county.

 

Guns of Contention: If Philly says no, Florida can say yes

 

The headline is misleading.  When you get further down:

 

-- Ras-Tesfa Ferguson, 27, of Wyncote, Montgomery County: Ferguson, who has a Montgomery County gun permit and permits from Florida and New Hampshire, said that in 2008 he was outside a house in the Lawncrest section of Northeast Philadelphia when police descended on the block. He said that cops did not honor any of his permits and charged him with possessing firearms not to be carried without a license and related gun crimes. Online court records show that Ferguson also was charged with burglary and simple assault in the case, but that all charges later were withdrawn.

 

Ferguson said that his gun and permits were confiscated. He said that he never got his gun back, although he was able to get his Montgomery County permit renewed. "Montgomery County is used to gun permits," he said. "Philadelphia acts like you broke the law."

[PK90 3,573]

Remember, you are always going to one state further than actually going, and are coming from one state further than actually coming from.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[kman 56]

Have your NJ transport exemption ready to be clearly recited. This could be going to a PA range. Having a range membership in place across the border down the road ahead would be a good idea. Having targets and ear protection and eye protection with you also indicates you intend to go to a range if a police officer or judge doesnt believe you. Once you are across you can change your mind. If this sounds ridiculous it is because the laws are ridiculous. But if you arent prepared to substantiate an exemption and you have a handgun in the trunk then you risk arrest if you are stopped or break down and that is not something you want.

 

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[kman 56]

Also avoid coming back home late after the range closes. At 2 am no cop is gonna believe you are returning from the range unless you have a 24 hour range you can point to that is directly in line with the route you are driving and your house.

 

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[kman 56]

In actuality you want to go to the range before you drive back home. Dont have to shoot there the statute just says go there. Remember phones record locations. A few miles out if your way on the way bacj to go through the range parking lot might save you a lot of trouble. Cutting corners on this may work in the short term but if you break the law enough eventually something is going to go wrong. Hopefully not too long in the future this will all be changed and we can laugh at how silly the law used to be.

 

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[Newtonian 453]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one!

 

From what I understand, the only people that believe that are from Jersey.

 

Everybody else in the world knows it's not true, including the people that wrote it and specifically changed the language so that it would NOT protect you from the laws in your state of origin or destination, although apparently the changes were not indisputable enough.

 

That being said, it does say what it says. Everybody knows what it means, but it does NOT clearly spell that out.

 

Only one thing is for sure. Based upon the recent 3rd Circuit ruling, in NJ and PA it applies ONLY while you are in a vehicle. Any of you guys who think it covers you from any place you can have it and carry it to any place you can have it and carry it see that coming? (Gee, I wonder why they added "Carry" to it)

 

So, if you live in an apartment, it sure as hell doesn't cover you walking to your car in jersey. That part is settled until you get to the US Supreme Court after 4 years waiting in jail.

Wait a sec. So if you live in an apartment, you're illegal when transferring handguns to your car, but once you get in you're ok? What about going to the range or to a gunsmith?

 

I'm dense...please explain. 

[mark_anthony_78 0]

I would think that the walk to your car is a "reasonable deviation" on your way to the range.

[mipafox 438]

Wait a sec. So if you live in an apartment, you're illegal when transferring handguns to your car, but once you get in you're ok? What about going to the range or to a gunsmith?

 

I'm dense...please explain. 

FOPA (federal) only covers you in a vehicle, based on 3rd Circuit ruling. Not walking to a vehicle, not walking from a vehicle into an airport to check your gun, etc.

 

If you are complying with NJ law, you don't have to worry about FOPA. If you think driving to PA is preempted under federal FOPA against NJ law (it is not anyway) then it does not count when walking to your car or walking into an airport. Anybody without a carry license in NJ that walks into an airport with a handgun is not protected by FOPA unless you are flying directly to a range. That much is for sure, until somebody gets the US Supreme Court to make up a new law.

[ryan_j 0]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one!

 

From what I understand, the only people that believe that are from Jersey.

 

Oh come on, really? You guys argued about this very thing in 2011 over at PAFOA, and someone said that they asked Nappen (a lawyer who does not have to pretend to be one) at an NJ2AS meeting and he said that while it was a gray area with no case law, it would be covered under FOPA.

Yes, it would get dicey based on the 3rd circuit ruling if you live in an apartment or park your car on the street, due to the narrow interpretation of FOPA. But based on the actual wording of the statute, it seems that you'd be covered if you put it in your car on your property and then transport from there. 

 

Remember that the 2C:39-6 exemptions are just that, exemptions, not restrictions. You're not restricted in going to/from the range. You're exempted. Federal law under FOPA would provide an additional exemption to that.

[ryan_j 0]

Here's the PAFOA thread: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/140698-fopa-transport-protection-states-origin-destination-unlikely-report-page-3.html

[mipafox 438]

 

Oh come on, really? You guys argued about this very thing in 2011 over at PAFOA, and someone said that they asked Nappen (a lawyer who does not have to pretend to be one) at an NJ2AS meeting and he said that while it was a gray area with no case law, it would be covered under FOPA.

"You guys?" I am not your guy. Go complain to them.

 

But Third Circuit is biding in NJ until you go to the Supreme Court. FOPA does not cover you walking to or from your vehicle, airplane, etc., and that is the undisputed law in NJ, PA, and another state or two I forget.

 

You are free to fool yourself about the rest. As I said, the only fools are in Jersey. You won't find anyone anywhere else that agrees with you. Including the people that wrote the law. Not going to argue it, NJGF basically has an official policy on it more or less. But I will mention it, because somebody is going to get screwed.

[ryan_j 0]

 

"You guys?" I am not your guy. Go complain to them.

 

But Third Circuit is biding in NJ until you go to the Supreme Court. FOPA does not cover you walking to or from your vehicle, airplane, etc.

 

You are free to fool yourself about the rest. As I said, the only fools are in Jersey.

As you said, you're not a lawyer. As the actual lawyer said, there's no case law so it's a gray area but FOPA should apply. Also, the Revell case that you're trying to cite here has zero relevance so don't even bother.