Explain the shotgun laws? Trying to make a flowchart

[Melgamatic 66]

I started making a shotgun version of my "Is It Legal in NJ" flowchart, and realize that I don't understand the rules.  Specifically, I'm reading the law here:

 

http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

 

For shotguns, there are two definitions of assault shotguns in the definition section of NJAC 13:54-1.2 Definitions (besides those listed by name in Section 1).

 

Section 2 lists shotguns in paragraph iii:

• A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:
  1. A folding or telescoping stock;
  2. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
  3. A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or
  4. An ability to accept a detachable magazine

Section 3 then goes on:

• A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a folding stock or a pistol grip;

So, Section 2 seems to be like the rifle, where you can have one evil feature but not two, but then Section 3 says right out that you can't have magazine capacity > 6, a folding stock or a pistol grip.

 

What's going on there?  Are Sections 2 and 3 in conflict with each other, or am I not understanding?

 

Thanks.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

It is my understanding that Sections 2 and 3 are indeed in conflict, and that #3 wins.  So I have no idea what purpose is served by Section 2.

 

Perhaps others can shed more light on this.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Shotgun flow chart in text:

 

Is your shotgun a pump, break-open or lever action? - Yes -> LEGAL (as long as it meets Federal/NFA barrel length minimum.  "Anything goes" on a pump/break-open/lever action shotgun: Bayonets on a pump/break-open/lever action - LEGAL.  Capacity over 6 rounds on a pump, break-open or lever action - LEGAL.  Folding stocks/telescoping stocks/pistol grips on a pump/break-open/lever action - LEGAL)

|

NO->  Your shotgun is semi-automatic -> Does your semi-automatic shotgun have:

|

     A pistol grip? - Yes -> ILLEGAL

     |

     NO

     |

     Magazine capacity (either tube or detachable) in excess of 6 rounds? - Yes -> ILLEGAL

     |

     NO

     |

     A folding or telescoping stock? - Yes -> ILLEGAL.

     |

     NO -> your semi-automatic shotgun is LEGAL

[Melgamatic 66]

There is also this clause in the "named" section:

• Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Which seems like it might apply to "any" shotgun, even lever or pump since semi-auto isn't specified in that section...

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

There is also this clause in the "named" section:

• Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Which seems like it might apply to "any" shotgun, even lever or pump since semi-auto isn't specified in that section...

 

Agreed - so that should be the first decision point "Is your shotgun on the named list, and/or does it have a revolving cylinder?"

[raz-0 1,259]

That's the administrative code, and they pulled that out of their kiester. 

 

They can get away with making up the feature test for rifles because it was the result of defining substantially identical in a court case. Shotguns however already had a feature test in the law as written, which is

 

"(3)A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip, or a folding stock."

 

So the flow would go -

Is it on the named list? Yes -> FU!

 

NO? Does it have a cylinder? Yes. -> PRobably FU, as that is a type listing. 

 

NO? is it semi- auto? No-> GTG

 

Yes? Then does it have a pistol grip? Yes-> FU!

 

NO? Thne does it hold more than 6 rounds in a fixed magazine?  Yes -> FU! 

 

NO? Then does it have a folding stock? Yes -> FU!

 

WIth the addendum that if it has a detachable magazine, despite the mag limit being 15 rounds,  having one over 6 rounds for that shotgun will likely run afoul of 

 

"(5)A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person."

[raz-0 1,259]

Agreed - so that should be the first decision point "Is your shotgun on the named list, and/or does it have a revolving cylinder?"

 

 

Actually, that is a broad type, kind of like they use to mess with m-1 carbine look alikes, so who knows. Is the MTS-255, circuit judge, and others like it NJ legal? The intent were items like the street sweeper with a spring loaded non detachable drum, but that's not what it actually says. 

[Melgamatic 66]

How about this?

 

[Old Dog 19]

In most other States your flowchart would be simple:

 

Is it called a shotgun and meet Federal laws--->YES - then it is legal.

 

See how easy that was.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

To avoid confusion instead of "Fixed magazine" I'd recommend "Tube/Fixed magazine".

 

Ya gotta add an extra test on barrel length - NFA weapons (in this case, a short barreled shotgun) are verboten in NJ too.

[PK90 3,573]

Combine the whole right side. It does not matter if the magazine is fixed or detachable. The Admin Code was taken from the NJAG Directive in 1997, which was written by a stupid person contrary to what NJ Law stated. For Semi-Auto Shotguns, you only need be concerned with NJS 2C:39-1w(1) and 2C:39-1w(3) and 2C:39-1w(5).

 

1. Does the shotgun have a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"?

... Yes = illegal

... No = continue

2. Is the shotgun a Franchi SPAS 12, LAW 12, or USAS 12?

... Yes = illegal

... No = continue

3. Is the shotgun a semi-auto?

... No = legal

... Yes = continue

4. Does the shotgun have either a magazine capable of holding more than 6 rounds, a folding stock, or a pistol grip?

... Yes = illegal

... No = continue

5. Do you have in your control the parts necessary (see above) to make a shotgun an assault weapon?

... Yes = illegal

... No = continue

6. Is your shotgun all black?

... No = legal

... Yes = illegal

 

No need to get into barrel and overall lengths as that is covered under Federal Law.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Disagree on the barrel lengths, PK.  The more possible situations the flowchart can accommodate the more useful it is.  There could be someone in free state with a legal NFA SBS contemplating a move to NJ.

[DeerSlayer 241]

In most other States your flowchart would be simple:

 

Is it called a shotgun and meet Federal laws--->YES - then it is legal.

 

See how easy that was.

This isn't other states unfortunately, were special here. That's why we have special laws.

[njpilot 671]

Disagree on the barrel lengths, PK.  The more possible situations the flowchart can accommodate the more useful it is.  There could be someone in free state with a legal NFA SBS contemplating a move to NJ.

Anyone in a free state with an NFA item of any type, should be smart enough to check if he/she can possess it in any state they may travel or move to.

 

If someone is going to go through the hoops to get an NFA item, they are more likely to be aware of such things.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Anyone in a free state with an NFA item of any type, should be smart enough to check if he/she can possess it in any state they may travel or move to.

 

If someone is going to go through the hoops to get an NFA item, they are more likely to be aware of such things.

 

Should be.  And CCW'ers should be aware of the legalities of carrying in every jurisdiction they visit, yet we see a couple of otherwise law abiding CCW'ers busted in NYC each year.

 

Whatever, I'm done arguing - not my flowchart.

[raz-0 1,259]

Disagree on the barrel lengths, PK. The more possible situations the flowchart can accommodate the more useful it is. There could be someone in free state with a legal NFA SBS contemplating a move to NJ.

Just make an nfa chart then.

 

Is it nfa? Yes? -> FU! Done.

[yz kid 69 0]

With the new bills, would the kel tec ksg be deemed illegal? I'm talking about the 10 round limit, if it were to god forbid pass. I already own a ksg.

[ogfarmer 138]

the mag limit is for "semi autos"