NJ Statute 2C:58-4

[Potts 0]

I did a quick forum search and did not see any mention of the NJ State Law Statutes 2C:58-4.  I am specifically concerned with the below section of said law:

 

No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.

 

Has anyone ever had any luck actually enforcing this law, and if so, how?  I am currently very frustrated with my township's handling of my application for an FID and Handgun Permit (it will be my first).

 

I submitted my application on 03/13/15, and got fingerprinted on 3/24/15.  When I submitted the permit I was told current processing times were two to three months.  It has now been three months.  I have been calling once each week to find out where my permit is for the last three weeks.  The first time I called, I was told there were a few ahead of me and it would likely be available the following week.  No one called me the following week, so I called, and was told someone would call me back.  No one did.  I now called again today, and was told someone will call me back, which I am doubtful will occur.

I don't understand how there can be a law that states the permits must be processed within 60 days or they are deemed approved, and even at the time of application I can be told it could take three months.

I don't want to cause issues between myself and my local PD, and I especially don't want to jeopardize getting my permit, but at this point I am beyond frustrated.
 

[diamondd817 827]

That statue is for a carry permit. FID card / handgun purchase permit statue is only 30 days. Good luck.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

You seem to be confusing laws dealing with the application for carry permits with those dealing with a FPID/P2P.

 

The 2-3 month processing time for FPID/P2P's is total BS. There is a 30 day statutory limit, but it is regularly ignored in light of Adler v Livak (Google it). Since there is no transparency in the permitting process, it is impossible to call out your PD on their malfeasance. Report the abuse to the ANJRPC and/or consult a lawyer.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[louu 399]

You can call the NJSP Firearms unit and ask how far along your paperwork is on their end. Phone number is here

 

http://www.njsp.org/divorg/invest/firearms-invest-unit.html

 

If they are finished and its back at your local PD the only other thing that could hold it up is your references.

 

If thats all done than its just the department being assholes and not doing the job that you pay them for.

[Kevin125 4,772]

From Adler v Livak.

 

We thus conclude that the inability of the chief of police to obtain the requisite SBI and FBI reports within the thirty day period constitutes “good cause” for a denial, but does not require the chief of police to deny the application on that account.   He must withhold rendering a decision on the application until the fingerprint reports are obtained from the SBI and the FBI. If the reports so obtained do not disclose a criminal conviction or any other disqualifying disability, the “good cause” for the denial of the permit evaporates, and an identification card must be granted immediately.

 

The assumption here is that the SBI and FBI were filed in a timely fashion and that reports were not yet received.  As Pizza Bob said above, there is no transparency so we have no means at this time to challenge the actions of the Chief or his Dept.

 

What we would need to deal with this situation is a way to see the filing dates and status of the required SBI and FBI reports related to our application.  We also need statistical data on these report filings in general.  If this was done, we'd probably see two effects.  1) The status look-ups would reveal an UN-timely filing of the requests to the SBI and FBI, followed by complaints from PDs that they just don't have the staff to do it any faster.  2) We'd see the permits start getting issued more quickly in some departments that previously took a long time.

 

I see a need for another email and follow up call to Sen. Beck.

 

Hey Pizza Bob.  Thanks for the Adler v Livak reference.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

We need a firearms law public advocate with subpoena power.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I don't know who has subpoena power. The AG for sure. Not sure about the senate and assy members. I wonder if under FOI you could get the dates of requests for background/print checks on yourself from the FBI?

 

If we could get it, it could be used in a lawsuit. And maybe criminal proceedings against anyone who represented something other than the truth about the reports or requests for them.

[maintenanceguy 510]

2C:58-4 is about the first step in applying for a permit to CARRY a handgun.  If the local PD takes too long to approve or deny the application, it's considered approved by the local PD but that's just step 1.

 

If the local PD takes too long, it goes onto step 2 - which is where the judge denies it.

If you are approved by the local PD, it goes to step 2 - where the judge denies it.

If you are denied by the local PD, you file an appeal and it goes to step 2 - where the judge denies it.

 

It does not matter at all what the local PD does. IT always ends up at step 2.......where the judge denies it.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^With the RINO appointing gun-grabbin' AG's, one after another, there's a snowballs' chance in hell that an AG is gonna stir the pot.  Just sayin'...........

 

Bob is right in post #6!

 

Dave

[Potts 0]

You guys are right, sorry about that.  I should have read that law more carefully before posting.  If what you guys are saying about FID's should be processed in 30 days, that's even worse.

 

I just simply cannot understand how they are supposed to process permits in 30 days, and straight told me it would take 2-3 months when I dropped it off.  Talk about a slap in the face.  Three weeks ago at this point, I spoke to the officer who apparently handles the permits and he told me it would be another week or so, that there were a few ahead of me and he would call when it was ready.  Three weeks later and still nothing.  I am starting to get the feeling now, he is jerking me around because I called to ask where it was.  The first time I called, which was 2 months and one week after application, the officer said he had my references but didn't have my fingerprints.  On the phone I told him the exact date and time I went to get finger-printed (which was 11 days after I dropped off my application), and he starts going through his email then magically he finds it.  It was at that moment I realized they obviously could give a crap about trying to process these in a timely manner.

 

My friend who used to work at this particular PD, said to call the Chief and let him know about my issues, but I am worried that's just going to make things worse for me.

 

When I filed the permit I put $100 down on a new Glock 19 Gen 4 that was hard to find in my area - it has the FDE grip - and I just had to pay for it in full because they wouldn't hold it for more than 90 days.  I also have a shooting trip coming up that I planned what I thought was far enough that there was no way this permit wouldn't be through in time, and now it is getting really close.

I really hope when this finally goes through, there aren't any problems with NCIS causing additional delays.  This is just really sad and disheartening in my opinion.  I love the police and highly respect what they do.  I am a stand-up, law abiding, tax paying citizen that simply wants to exercise my constitutional rights and enjoy shooting sports.  To be made to wait like this for something that should be fairly simple, it just outrageous.  To me the problem is that there is simply no accountability.  No one is holding these PD's accountable to process permits within any time frame - the law appears to be a joke.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Potts,  the 30 day law is a joke!

 

My then 18 yr. old Eagle Scout, while under my roof for his entire life (so no address change snafu's), applied for a NJFPID in the town we live in.  A 1.5 square mile town with just 2-3 Detectives to handle everything, including NJFPID's.  It took my Kid 6 LONG MONTHS for his NJFPID card to fall from the heavens, even though I personally knew every Detective in the Dept.!

 

So away to college he goes and then home a coupla months and then off to Pella, Iowa for his first job (as a Mechanical Engineer).  A stranger to all (he even talks funny), the guys at work ask him if he owns any guns.  He informs them all of his very modest collection of long guns and someone mentions to him he ought to apply for a Hand Gun permit.  To make a long story short, he finally goes on his Monday lunch hour to the next town over and submits his one-page application along with fingerprints and a copy of his driver's license.  It's NOT the carry permit, merely the Iowa "Permit to Acquire".  He asks the Deputy Sheriff how long this will all take.  Here's the Deputy's answer:

 

 

"Son, if yer in a real hurry for it YOU CAN COME BACK TOMORROW, otherwise we'll mail it to you at our expense AND YOU SHOULD HAVE IT BY THURSDAY IN THE MAIL!"  

 

NOW LET THAT SINK-IN A MINUTE OR TWO!  

 

FWIW this was almost (2) years ago at the Marion County Sheriff's Office located at the County Lock-Up (Gee, they're smart enough out there to save money and not have a separate building for the Sheriff)!  

 

NICS works in Free America, but NJ refuses to use it correctly because it would cost JOBS of those paid to work like we're all in the last century, I.E.: the entire NJSP Firearms Unit.  THAT and the fact that most NJ Cops are taught to be afraid of citizens with guns, even good, tax-paying and law-abiding schmucks like yourself....

[quikz 34]

NJ is, has always been, will always be, a virulent mess. Those with 'connections' (myself included) are dumb-founded by this system of denial denial denial. I really dont know who calls the shots. Possibly the anti-christ.

[son of sam 9]

Im waiting in Buena Borough also very frustrated. Mine is for change of address and 3 PP. I live in a town of less than 2000 people, no way that the stack of permits is to big to be completed in a week much less ove3r 2 months. NJNICS only takes 5 minutes, they run my entire DMV history and search for warrants in under 5 mins from the car. I have never had a record, I havent even had a traffic ticket in over 10 years. Im afraid to complain to much or they might just "lose" the file