Just to be sure... Carrying on Personal Property (At work)

[Lambo2936 297]

I just want to be clear. I'm thinking of running up to a property in Newark to do some stuff; its already almost 9pm so it'll be late.
I'll be indoors. My father owns the property. The unit i will be in is the warehouse that him, my brother, and i work in; it's his warehouse and our inventory. That said, i am technically not part owner. I AM the property manager.
Can i carry my HG (wont bring Hollow pointers) with me INSIDE the building? Odds of a PO showing up are fairly slim as they don't even when people break in, but if the neighbor calls the police and they show up knockin on the door while i'm loading my truck with a gun strapped to me, i don't want to get shot or arrested.
It's a grey area since i believe i'd have to be the property OWNER or OWNER of the business. I am technically a partner, seeing as verbal contracts are legal and binding, but if i had to prove it in court, i have no real on-the-books proof; just word of mouth. As far as my father is concerned, my brother and i are each 30% owners, and my father is 40%. Again, nowhere is this in writing, and the only people who can bear witness to this are my brother and father.
Let me know what ya guys think. I'd probably do it regardless if i end up going there (because F**k that noise). Am i maybe better off bringing a rifle or something? I feel like walking up to a cop with an AR is more intimidating than a holstered Handgun, and the last thing i want are scared cops in a creepy warehouse freakin out and shooting me.

[Malsua 1,422]

Take a shotgun and have your FPID card.    You won't be breaking any laws and a shotgun will seem to cops to be more self defense than an AR, even though we all pretty much know the AR is the superior SD firearm.

 

You have to own the property to carry a handgun.   Shrug.  Do what you need to do to stay above ground.

[Lambo2936 297]

I always have my FID on me, in case theres a loose round in my truck or something stupid.. Better safe than sorry.

I don't own the property, so i guess a handgun is a no-go. Maybe ill just bring my Mossberg with me then. Think im better with #7 or #8 target shot or buck? 

Scratch that, stupid question.
Is it *legal* for be to have a loaded shotgun with me? again, while i am in the building, not outside, in the truck, etc. I'll follow the usual transport laws with the firearm in the trunk, etc.

[Malsua 1,422]

Buckshot.  Leave birdshot for the birds.

 

If you're on private property with your card, you're not transporting and you're not breaking any possession laws, so yeah, loaded is fine but loaded is impermissible by statute.

[maintenanceguy 510]

FID card is a long gun carry permit cased and unloaded only.  Whether "transporting" only covers vehicles is not clear.

 

FID card does not let you load and carry on property that you do not own.

[Malsua 1,422]

FID card is a long gun carry permit cased and unloaded only.  Whether "transporting" only covers vehicles is not clear.

 

FID card does not let you load and carry on property that you do not own.

 

When you examine the exemptions and how the card abrogates that, where does it mention the loaded status?

[maintenanceguy 510]

When you examine the exemptions and how the card abrogates that, where does it mention the loaded status?

 

The answer is to read NJSA 2C:39-5 in it's entirety.  Taking excerpts miss a lot of interconnection between the rules and which rule applies under which situation.  But here's a very brief (and not all inclusive) excerpt:

 

NJSA 2C:39-5 (c.) Rifles and shotguns.

 

(1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2) Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

So... number 1 says that possessing a rifle or shotgun is illegal unless you have a FID card.  So, having the card makes it legal to possess.

 

But, number 2 says that  possessing a loaded rifle or shotgun is illegal unless "otherwise" permitted by law".  No mention of an FID card making possessing a loaded shotgun okay.

 

There is no exemption that includes carrying at your father's place of business so carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun there is not "otherwise permitted by law" as required in number 2.

 

But this misses the rules about possessing on property "owned or possessed" by you, possessing while hunting,  transporting to a place of target practice, and lots of other confusing exemptions.   To get the whole answer, you really have to read the whole section.

[W2MC 1,699]

http://i3.cpcache.com/product/505410408/new_jersey_terrorist_hunting_calendar_print.jpg?width=750&height=750&Filters=%5b%7b%22name%22%3a%22background%22%2c%22value%22%3a%22F2F2F2%22%2c%22sequence%22%3a2%7d%5d

[Howard 538]

The answer is to read NJSA 2C:39-5 in it's entirety.  Taking excerpts miss a lot of interconnection between the rules and which rule applies under which situation.  But here's a very brief (and not all inclusive) excerpt:

 

NJSA 2C:39-5 (c.) Rifles and shotguns.

 

(1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2) Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

So... number 1 says that possessing a rifle or shotgun is illegal unless you have a FID card.  So, having the card makes it legal to possess.

 

But, number 2 says that  possessing a loaded rifle or shotgun is illegal unless "otherwise" permitted by law".  No mention of an FID card making possessing a loaded shotgun okay.

 

There is no exemption that includes carrying at your father's place of business so carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun there is not "otherwise permitted by law" as required in number 2.

 

But this misses the rules about possessing on property "owned or possessed" by you, possessing while hunting,  transporting to a place of target practice, and lots of other confusing exemptions.   To get the whole answer, you really have to read the whole section.

As you started out you must read all the law not just part of it.  Number one is false when you read the full context of the law.  If you inherited or obtained the long gun legally from another state then there is no requirement that you have an FID which is a requirement to purchase NOT to own.  Many people, thousands, in this state have long guns they acquired in this manner and don't have FID cards and have never registered them either which is not required.

[Lambo2936 297]

...I hate our laws. Ended up not going because i didn't want to risk time behind bars to get a few hours of extra work done, but at least i know i can go with a 12g and keep shells in my pocket. Odds are if i discharge the thing, it's a kill or be killed situation, and i'd rather them dead than me.
I'd love to see where this 'debate' goes, though. Our laws are so skewed, does that mean that i CAN NOT carry a loaded firearm in my own home?

[maintenanceguy 510]

The answer is to read NJSA 2C:39-5 in it's entirety.  Taking excerpts miss a lot of interconnection between the rules and which rule applies under which situation.  But here's a very brief (and not all inclusive) excerpt:

 

NJSA 2C:39-5 (c.) Rifles and shotguns.

 

(1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2) Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

So... number 1 says that possessing a rifle or shotgun is illegal unless you have a FID card.  So, having the card makes it legal to possess.

 

But, number 2 says that  possessing a loaded rifle or shotgun is illegal unless "otherwise" permitted by law".  No mention of an FID card making possessing a loaded shotgun okay.

 

There is no exemption that includes carrying at your father's place of business so carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun there is not "otherwise permitted by law" as required in number 2.

 

But this misses the rules about possessing on property "owned or possessed" by you, possessing while hunting,  transporting to a place of target practice, and lots of other confusing exemptions.   To get the whole answer, you really have to read the whole section.

 

 

As you started out you must read all the law not just part of it.  Number one is false when you read the full context of the law.  If you inherited or obtained the long gun legally from another state then there is no requirement that you have an FID which is a requirement to purchase NOT to own.  Many people, thousands, in this state have long guns they acquired in this manner and don't have FID cards and have never registered them either which is not required.

 

# 1 applies except for when the law says it doesn't.  The law says it doesn't on your own property.  It says it doesn't when you transport within the exemptions. 

 

But, I thought we were talking about #2 - having a loaded shotgun.  Since the OP wants somethign for self defense, an unloaded gun doesn't do much good.  #2 applies, again, except for where the law says it doesn't.  I don't see anything in the law that says it doesn't apply at your father's place of business.

[Howard 538]

Yea you are probably right about having the gun outside of exemptions without the FID, even it is supposed to be a purchase ID card - this state.  But the long gun can be a good weapon even if unloaded, I know I would not want to be struck with one

[Kevin125 4,772]

...I hate our laws. Ended up not going because i didn't want to risk time behind bars to get a few hours of extra work done, but at least i know i can go with a 12g and keep shells in my pocket. Odds are if i discharge the thing, it's a kill or be killed situation, and i'd rather them dead than me.

I'd love to see where this 'debate' goes, though. Our laws are so skewed, does that mean that i CAN NOT carry a loaded firearm in my own home?

 

You can carry what ever your are permitted to possess in your own home.  Loaded.

 

I carry a loaded handgun on my property when I expect to be at home for a while.  Whether inside or outside.  There's been a number of home invasions in my area over the last several years.

 

One thing... if you decide to do that, remember that drawing from a holster, if you aren't accustomed to doing it, could create a lead contamination issue in your leg.

 

 

You don't want to be this guy.... ever... for reasons that go far beyond this screw up.  lol.

[Kevin125 4,772]

We beat the long gun, unloaded, open action. open carry thing to death in some other threads I suppose.  But I hadn't thought about also having ammunition on you while doing so.   Not that it's a great self defense plan to carry around an unloaded Home Defense shotgun with shells in a belt carrier.  Sounds potentially like some tragic teen horror flick where the kid gets axed while trying to load up.  But better than not having ammo I suppose.

 

But.. the legality if outside your home.  Like at Dad's business in Lambo's question.   You're not transporting as was pointed out above.  But....

 

We can legally cart around that shotgun once issued a FPID.  (note I didn't say carrying the FPID)

 

We can legally cart around some 12 ga. shells pretty much anywhere we like.

 

So what prevents us doing both at the same time while on foot?    While not walking from one's house to the river or woods to hunt....

[maintenanceguy 510]

We beat the long gun, unloaded, open action. open carry thing to death in some other threads I suppose.  But I hadn't thought about also having ammunition on you while doing so.   Not that it's a great self defense plan to carry around an unloaded Home Defense shotgun with shells in a belt carrier.  Sounds potentially like some tragic teen horror flick where the kid gets axed while trying to load up.  But better than not having ammo I suppose.

 

But.. the legality if outside your home.  Like at Dad's business in Lambo's question.   You're not transporting as was pointed out above.  But....

 

We can legally cart around that shotgun once issued a FPID.  (note I didn't say carrying the FPID)

 

We can legally cart around some 12 ga. shells pretty much anywhere we like.

 

So what prevents us doing both at the same time while on foot?    While not walking from one's house to the river or woods to hunt....

 

I've wondered about the line I made bold above.  The law says that you can transport a long gun if you "possess" and FID card.  Does possess mean I must have it on my person or that it just must be one of my possessions.

 

Like everything gun related in NJ, it just takes one officer, one prosecutor, and one jury to make you a felon.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I believe it reads "have been issued"... 

 

 

checking....

[maintenanceguy 510]

I believe it reads "have been issued"... 

 

 

checking....

 

You are right.  I says "without first having obtained" a FID card.   It says "have in his possession" a hunting license to transport when hunting.

[Lambo2936 297]

You can carry what ever your are permitted to possess in your own home. Loaded.

 

I carry a loaded handgun on my property when I expect to be at home for a while. Whether inside or outside. There's been a number of home invasions in my area over the last several years.

 

One thing... if you decide to do that, remember that drawing from a holster, if you aren't accustomed to doing it, could create a lead contamination issue in your leg.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs

 

You don't want to be this guy.... ever... for reasons that go far beyond this screw up. lol.

Lmfao i remember that video and the ones that followed. This guys a moron.

That said, my 1911 has a safety and i generally dont keep a round in the chamber at home anyways, even when carrying. My home is about a 500sqft mobile home, so i can hear the neighbor farting, let alone someone trying to break in. Id probably keep one in the chamber with safety on, though. My holster is a blackhawk serpa, the small ones that cause ND issues if your finger transitions to the trigger rather than the slide. No fanks. Haha

[dajonga 397]

Have we considered this?...... What are the hunting options for a Newark warehouse? Is there a groundhog or squirrel around that you can hunt? Carry a loaded shotgun with 3 rounds on your back just in case you run across a critter?

[Lambo2936 297]

No groundhogs or squirrels. Plenty of stray cats and rats/mice, though, haha. I'd imagine there's a no discharge law in Newark, so if i was to get busted, the "i'm hunting for rats" excuse probably wouldn't fly.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Tecnhically, a warehouse isn't a "dwelling" so there's no rule about how close to one you can hunt.  You should be able to hunt rats inside of one.  Assuming you have a rat stamp on your hunting license.

[Lambo2936 297]

Im sure newark code has something in it. Also, about 50 feet away from the entrance roll up door is an apartment building and multi family home. The PD wouldnt be too happy if i was walking around a warehouse with a loaded 12g discharging it trying to catch rats. Theyd find a reason to put me away, haha.

[OfcrFek 21]

To beat a dead horse....

 

What's the legality of him transporting a handgun up to the site? My father-in-law owns a business and works it every day. Legally, he can carry in his place of business because he owns it. However, doesn't the law state it can only transport to/from certain locations?

[Kevin125 4,772]

That owned business is one of those exempt locations.

[NJGF 375]

2C:39-6 - Exemptions

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.  For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.