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Ray Ray

10mm, will it die soon?

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It seems this caliber has seen a resurgence in the gun community.   But not by gun owners, but by advertising and marketing.   I personally see zero use for this cartridge.  It is expensive, recoils more than necessary, beats up guns and doesn't do anything that cheaper and easier to shoot calibers do. 

I give it another year before the 10mm phase dies down and people fall back to the industry standard calibers of 9mm, 357 Magnum and 45acp.

Thoughts gentlemen?

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Nope it will never die. It's a very popular cal up here for moose and bear protection. Whenever I can scrounge up a few bucks I think I'm going to do a poly80 build for a backcountry protection gun. 

I was out hiking last week and got caught in a rain and snow squall just above treeline and I got soaked as did my 649. I was pretty annoyed that my revolver got wet. I'd rather a poly80/glock get wet and beat up than a S&W revolver 

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6 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

It seems this caliber has seen a resurgence in the gun community.   But not by gun owners, but by advertising and marketing.   I personally see zero use for this cartridge.  It is expensive, recoils more than necessary, beats up guns and doesn't do anything that cheaper and easier to shoot calibers do. 

I give it another year before the 10mm phase dies down and people fall back to the industry standard calibers of 9mm, 357 Magnum and 45acp.

Thoughts gentlemen?

It's funny, I was talking to a few industry executives at a large manufacturer about 10mm and why they don't make more guns in 10mm.

The 10mm cult is quite loud and has actually seen a rise in popularity as more states allowed straight walled cartridges for hunting.  With it, the rise in 10mm guns we saw over the past few years.

The issue is... the 10mm market is like a Chihuahua... it yaps yaps yaps... but doesn't go out there and buy guns in numbers to justify it.

Commercially, 10mm today is nothing more than a cult.

So will it die?  No, I don't think so because since the 80's and Don Johnson Bren Ten, white ferrari days, it is already "dead."

I just think we will see less marketing hype around it.

As you pointed out, 10mm beats up a lot of guns fairly quick, especially those CZ clones from Tanfo that had cracked slides.

Part of the issue is that much of the 10mm ammo is loaded hot as hell, +p or +p+.

The other thing is that outside of reloaders... 10mm is expensive as hell.

To a reloader, it will costs basically the same to reload 10mm as 40 sw... difference is the brass and once you have it, you have it.  Only difference is the small increase in powder cost... even still, dirt cheap, less than $.01 differences.

It is for non-reloaders where the problem is.

1. Can you go to Walmart and buy it?  At mine... no.

2. Cost wise... cheapest 10mm at Cabelas is Herters, $18 per box.  You can pick up 40 S&W for under $10 a box now.

 

and BTW... I am still a proud carrying member of the 45 GAP club. lol.  IT really is a nice round.... humn... I think I can run it on my ZEV or do a 80 build for it.   And get it how I wanted it... with a suppressor. 

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33 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Cost wise... cheapest 10mm at Cabelas is Herters, $18 per box.  You can pick up 40 S&W for under $10 a box now.

Bingo

Which is why I grabbed a Glock 22.  The ammunition cost has dropped considerably since 9mm became hot, AGAIN.   Like @fishnut said, it's really for an outdoorsman who wants a caliber that could potentially take larger game for meat or to defend yourself with.  So, it will remain a niche cartridge with more popularity than the 357 Sig but still behind the 40 S&W.

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56 minutes ago, Maksim said:

2. Cost wise... cheapest 10mm at Cabelas is Herters, $18 per box.  You can pick up 40 S&W for under $10 a box now.

I agree with that...

But one thing with 10mm, is that most die-hards are reloaders. How much is the cost difference reloading 10mm over .40? And if that’s the case, they may also be in other cartridges based off it (9x25mm Dillon).

I love my 10mm and will never get out of it. Do I have the desire to buy another? Not unless I get a Compact 3rd Generation... to go with my 1006 (mainly so I don’t need more magazines). If I do that, likely a 1066, and I’d send it out to get converted over to decock-only as my 1006 was. I considered a SIG, but at the same token... my needs for 10mm power will be quite limited. 9mm does enough.

While I was never really a fan of .40... it isn’t a bad round. For as much as I’ve been shooting it the past few weeks, it isn’t worth anymore than 9mm. That being said, if I could buy my duty gun... I would. More because it is brand new, and switching to 9mm Glocks next year, but also because it is what I’m going through the academy with. Don’t think I’d buy one, after the fact... while I get the idea behind it, I hate the LEM trigger.

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9 minutes ago, Screwball said:

I agree with that...

But one thing with 10mm, is that most die-hards are reloaders. How much is the cost difference reloading 10mm over .40? And if that’s the case, they may also be in other cartridges based off it (9x25mm Dillon).

I love my 10mm and will never get out of it. Do I have the desire to buy another? Not unless I get a Compact 3rd Generation... to go with my 1006 (mainly so I don’t need more magazines). If I do that, likely a 1066, and I’d send it out to get converted over to decock-only as my 1006 was. I considered a SIG, but at the same token... my needs for 10mm power will be quite limited. 9mm does enough.

While I was never really a fan of .40... it isn’t a bad round. For as much as I’ve been shooting it the past few weeks, it isn’t worth anymore than 9mm. That being said, if I could buy my duty gun... I would. More because it is brand new, and switching to 9mm Glocks next year, but also because it is what I’m going through the academy with. Don’t think I’d buy one, after the fact... while I get the idea behind it, I hate the LEM trigger.

So that's precisely the problem... what percentage of gun buyers are reloaders?

Off  the top of my head for the guns I own I would not buy these if I did not reload....

1. Springfield XDm 45 GAP.

2. All of the 9mm Makarovs...

3.  Swedish Mauser 6.5 Sweed

4. The two Swiss 7.5 Swiss

5. 41 Remington Mag revolvers

6. Jap Arisaka

7. All of the 8mm Mauser guns.

And the new bolt guns in 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and likely 6.5 CM.

Factory ammo is avail but it is stupid expensive.

6.5 CM is gaining a lot of new buyers so ammo is basically on par with regular quality 308.

 

There are simply more people who buy factory 9mm, 40 sw, 45 acp than folks who effectively now reload 10mm, 357 sig, FN 5.7.

Fortunately, even in 9mm, due to rising popularity of gun games and suppressors, 147 grain 9mm is getting more and more available without having to be loaded. 

 

And let's be honest here... how many fans of 10mm are fans of 10mm cause it is different. lol.  We all have those things.  That is why I keep jokingly supporting 45 GAP.  Commercially a FAILURE BUT... it is unique. lol.

Humn, maybe I will go load up some. 

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The 10mm is like the 41 Magnum of the semiautomatic pistol world.  Both are good rounds and have followings but not enough to make them really popular.  Thats because they really don't do any really better than more common calibers.  They are both too much for SD use.  9mm, 45 ACP, 38 spl and 357 Magnum are much more suitable for that.  I've never been a fan of the 40 S&W either as it never did anything that much better than the 9mm and 45 ACP.  It really was an extremely successful marketing ploy by Smith and Wesson than anything else.

Calibers like 10mm, 41 Mag, 357 SIG, and 45 GAP will be around with the minor advantages touted by their fans.  They'll never be that popular.

 

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4 hours ago, fishnut said:

Nope it will never die. It's a very popular cal up here for moose and bear protection. Whenever I can scrounge up a few bucks I think I'm going to do a poly80 build for a backcountry protection gun. 

I was out hiking last week and got caught in a rain and snow squall just above treeline and I got soaked as did my 649. I was pretty annoyed that my revolver got wet. I'd rather a poly80/glock get wet and beat up than a S&W revolver 

While calibers over 40 have been recommended for bear defense for years the link below will take you to an article that shows just about anything from 9mm up works.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5qtW1BCyL

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8 hours ago, Maksim said:

Off  the top of my head for the guns I own I would not buy these if I did not reload....

1. Springfield XDm 45 GAP.

2. All of the 9mm Makarovs...

3.  Swedish Mauser 6.5 Sweed

4. The two Swiss 7.5 Swiss

5. 41 Remington Mag revolvers

6. Jap Arisaka

7. All of the 8mm Mauser guns.

And the new bolt guns in 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and likely 6.5 CM.

Factory ammo is avail but it is stupid expensive.

6.5 CM is gaining a lot of new buyers so ammo is basically on par with regular quality 308...

 

...And let's be honest here... how many fans of 10mm are fans of 10mm cause it is different. lol.  We all have those things.  That is why I keep jokingly supporting 45 GAP.  Commercially a FAILURE BUT... it is unique. lol.

Don’t plan on going with a .45 GAP. My view, if someone made a frame that wasn’t a 9mm/.40 double stack for it (single stack .45 GAP), there might have been a chance as a backup gun.

9mm Makarov is available, especially from Hornady. Plan on getting one once I get situated in Maine. A CZ-52 is also in the mix, but I do already have another pistol in 7.62x25mm.

Had a 6.5mm Japanese chambered Carcano, but got rid of since it was sporterized.

Love 8mm, for the historic value.

Not on your list... have my Oswald Carcano copy (6.5mm Carcano), Colt Vest Pocket (.25 ACP), two Mosin Nagants (7.62x54mm), Nagant revolver (7.62x38mm), and Springfield Trapdoor Carbine (.45-70... but also a Custer era gun). Don’t reload yet, and probably won’t until I build a garage/loft. Good ammo can be found for all of that, whether it hard to find or higher in price.

10mm, I like for the history. At FLETC, they have a firearms display in one of their buildings. Has a lot of cool stuff, including an IRS Thompson (think a 1921, if I remember correctly; great condition, with the original case). Was talking with our instructor about it, and had to ask about the 1076 they had... which was an FBI gun. If there wasn’t the history stemming from the FBI Miami shootout... I likely wouldn’t have one.

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7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

The 10mm is like the 41 Magnum of the semiautomatic pistol world.  Both are good rounds and have followings but not enough to make them really popular.  Thats because they really don't do any really better than more common calibers.  They are both too much for SD use.  9mm, 45 ACP, 38 spl and 357 Magnum are much more suitable for that.  I've never been a fan of the 40 S&W either as it never did anything that much better than the 9mm and 45 ACP.  It really was an extremely successful marketing ploy by Smith and Wesson than anything else.

Calibers like 10mm, 41 Mag, 357 SIG, and 45 GAP will be around with the minor advantages touted by their fans.  They'll never be that popular.

 

You mean the .356 TSW is not going to make a comeback?  38 Super?  41 AE?  50 Bae?

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3 hours ago, Maksim said:

You mean the .356 TSW is not going to make a comeback?  38 Super?  41 AE?  50 Bae?

All those calibers will have a small following. 

The 38 Super was ballisticly the forerunner of the 357 mag.  It gained some popularity with IPSC shooters and is a good round.  Popular in Mexico and points south where civilians can't own guns in a "military" caliber.  The 357 SIG is a re-invention of the 38 Super.

The last two calibers invented that have proven their "staying power" are the 40 S&W and 44 mag.

All those 500s, 480s, 460s, and 454s will be around.  Maybe 1% of the people who buy them actually have a use for them.

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6 hours ago, Bully said:

YOU ARE AN EVIL MAN!!!!

I know, I know. I came right home and oiled the shit out of it. 

 

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

Good reason to have a stainless gun (yes I know stainless can rust).

Carrying guns always presents the opportunity for them to get wet and dirty.  The infantry does it all the time.

It is stainless but still I'd rather beat on a shitty glock 

 

11 hours ago, GRIZ said:

While calibers over 40 have been recommended for bear defense for years the link below will take you to an article that shows just about anything from 9mm up works.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5qtW1BCyL

More worried about moose than bear, the bear usually just run away. But yeah I've seen that artical before 

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