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Mr.Forks

How would this be transferred?

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https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frames/pfs9-serialized-frame-for-glock-17-22-aggressive-texture-prod118402.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=POLYMER80
or

https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Timberwolf.aspx

Is it a transferred as a pistol? Is it different then a stripped AR lower?
If it isn't a pistol, and you assemble it as a pistol, how would you use a p2p for it?
What if you assembled it into a pistol caliber carbine, like the mechtech?
Just curiosity rearing up, nothing serious
Looking for some enlightenment, expecting more confusion

 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Forks said:

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frames/pfs9-serialized-frame-for-glock-17-22-aggressive-texture-prod118402.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=POLYMER80
or

https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Timberwolf.aspx

Is it a transferred as a pistol? Is it different then a stripped AR lower?
If it isn't a pistol, and you assemble it as a pistol, how would you use a p2p for it?
What if you assembled it into a pistol caliber carbine, like the mechtech?
Just curiosity rearing up, nothing serious
Looking for some enlightenment, expecting more confusion

 

It's a "frame". You will require a Pistol Purchase Permit and it would need to be transferred through an FFL. Same as a complete handgun. 

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Just now, ChrisJM981 said:

It's a "frame". You will require a Pistol Purchase Permit and it would need to be transferred through an FFL. Same as a complete handgun. 

What are the differences between that and a stripped lower?

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21 minutes ago, Mr.Forks said:

What are the differences between that and a stripped lower?

2C:39-1 Definitions 

k. "Handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm  originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of a single hand.

2 minutes ago, PK90 said:

If you mean a stripped AR lower, then none. 

NJ, not AZ. :p

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4 minutes ago, PK90 said:

If you mean a stripped AR lower, then none. 

Yes, I did mean AR Lower

2 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

2C:39-1 Definitions 

k. "Handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm  originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of a single hand.

NJ, not AZ. :p

Interesting.
So because it has a pistol grip from manufacture, its essentially always a pistol in Nj?
 

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1 minute ago, Mr.Forks said:

Yes, I did mean AR Lower

Interesting.
So because it has a pistol grip from manufacture, its essentially always a pistol in Nj?
 

PK90 is definitely more knowledgeable regarding NJ law than I am, but that is my understanding.

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I'm aware its all just Theorycraft/mind exercise and a real answer won't exist until someone tries it and

  1. Gets in Trouble
  2. Gets it Approved

More questions

If, the frame is sold in a different state, and assembled as a carbine ( never having been a pistol at all), is that still a pistol to nj?

So, if you wanted to make a pistol from one of the Timberwolf frames, would you need to use a p2p to purchase it?

  1. If you don't, why?
    If an AR lower isn't a rifle, and the Timberwolf lower isn't a pistol
  2. If you do, why?
    Does the design make it a pistol, and thereby require a p2p?
    Does your intent to assemble it as a pistol make it a pistol?

If you do/can transfer it legally, and then assemble it into a pistol have you broken NJ Law? 

Which?
 

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52 minutes ago, PK90 said:

You're over thinking it.

oh, your definitely right about that- Its been a slow Sunday
This is probably the wrong part of the forum for this thread now that I'm reading it.
Please don't take my questioning as anything other then a quest for information.

52 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Whatever you buy a frame/receiver with, P2P or FPID, you need to build it as such.

Why? is the permit to p2p required based on the intent of your final assembly of the frame?
Some internet lawyer argument follows-
Not purchasing a pistol, but purchasing a stripped lower- 
Assembling a pistol from a lower that was legally obtained, and it meets all nj pistol laws when it is done.
Looking for a something that says it isn't allowed
The closest thing I can find is 13:54-3.13
Which says Frame and handgun, and also receiver require p2p.
But wouldn't that mean you need to have a p2p for stripped AR lowers? even if you assemble them into rifles?

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It's late and I don't have the law to quote handy, but the general Federal law is that if it's a handgun, it can become a rifle and then go back to being a handgun.

If it starts life as a rifle, you cannot legally turn it into a pistol. It must stay a rifle.

That's my understanding of the federal rules.

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In NJ, if it is transferred as a "Frame" it then get classified as to which type of frame it is (Rifle or pistol)

If it's a rifle, it transfers with a COE; if it's a Pistol it transfers with a HG permit.

If it transfers as a pistol, it stays a pistol

If the frame transfers as a rifle, it can't be made into a pistol in NJ because it will never clear the 50oz rule anyway..........

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4 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

... If the frame transfers as a rifle, it can't be made into a pistol in NJ because it will never clear the 50oz rule anyway..........

rifles cannot legally be made into pistols.

I can make a jersey-legal AR pistol using polymer upper and lower that will meet the 50oz rule.

I already have a pair of them (Bushmaster and ProOrd, both Carbon-15 jersey-legal models)

I also bought from PK90, before he fled for sandier pastures <_<, a polymer lower on a PPP for future use on one of those AR pistols when the Carbon-15 lower fails. I can legally build either a pistol OR a rifle from that particular lower, as I choose. If I build a rifle from it, I can always disassemble it and legally make a pistol from it. You CANNOT do that with a lower purchased on a COE.

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10 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

rifles cannot legally be made into pistols.

I can make a jersey-legal AR pistol using polymer upper and lower that will meet the 50oz rule.

I already have a pair of them (Bushmaster and ProOrd, both Carbon-15 jersey-legal models)

I also bought from PK90, before he fled for sandier pastures <_<, a polymer lower on a PPP for future use on one of those AR pistols when the Carbon-15 lower fails. I can legally build either a pistol OR a rifle from that particular lower, as I choose. If I build a rifle from it, I can always disassemble it and legally make a pistol from it. You CANNOT do that with a lower purchased on a COE.

You didn't make either of them you purchased them. let me know when you make a sub 50oz AR pistol.

And I disagree with you - you cannot make a pistol from that lower you got from Paul because you got it on a COE - correct?

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4 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

You didn't make either of them you purchased them. let me know when you make a sub 50oz AR pistol.

And I disagree with you - you cannot make a pistol from that lower you got from Paul because you got it on a COE - correct?

With the proprietary parts for the type 97 Bushmaster jersey-legal pistol (short BCG, unique buffer, small diameter recoil spring and its buffer tube with a full length pin down the center) I could most certainly make make a sub-50oz pistol.

As I stated in my earlier post, the polymer lower was purchased with a PPP, specifically as a future replacement for one of the carbon-15 factory lowers in the event one of them was to fail.

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23 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

In NJ, if it is transferred as a "Frame" it then get classified as to which type of frame it is (Rifle or pistol)

If it's a rifle, it transfers with a COE; if it's a Pistol it transfers with a HG permit.

If it transfers as a pistol, it stays a pistol

If the frame transfers as a rifle, it can't be made into a pistol in NJ because it will never clear the 50oz rule anyway..........

Is it like this in every state? Frame transferring as a frame then being classified rifle or pistol
If someone lived in a free state, how would they make an AR lower into a pistol?

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4 hours ago, Mr.Forks said:

Is it like this in every state? Frame transferring as a frame then being classified rifle or pistol
If someone lived in a free state, how would they make an AR lower into a pistol?

Make anything you want in Merica from a frame/receiver. Just remember, "First A Rifle, Always A Rifle".

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1 minute ago, PK90 said:

Make anything you want in Merica from a frame/receiver. Just remember, "First A Rifle, Always A Rifle".

So,
In not NJ, If you got one of those frames and assembled it into a rifle- its always stays a rifle on paper
I think I need to start asking out of state ffl's questions. 

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10 hours ago, njJoniGuy said:

Keep in mind that you cannot buy (take delivery of) a lower (other) in any state except that of your residence.

Just like handguns.

Yes, because it is not a shotgun nor a rifle.

Could the frame be assembled into a rifle from a new reciver and then legally brought in a state other then your residence because its no longer an other, it has become a rifle?

Is buying a used stripped lower in a different state different then buying an entire rifle?

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41 minutes ago, Mr.Forks said:

Yes, because it is not a shotgun nor a rifle.

Could the frame be assembled into a rifle from a new reciver and then legally brought in a state other then your residence because its no longer an other, it has become a rifle?

Is buying a used stripped lower in a different state different then buying an entire rifle?

A used stripped lower I still believe is considered an other. 

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One can only buy long guns in another state, and ONLY from a dealer. No face to face transactions across state lines.

The dealer also can not assemble a rifle for you without having a manufacturers license and engraving their info on it.

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3 hours ago, PK90 said:

One can only buy long guns in another state, and ONLY from a dealer. No face to face transactions across state lines.

The dealer also can not assemble a rifle for you without having a manufacturers license and engraving their info on it.

Gotcha,

So someone would have to buy the stripped lower in one state,

assemble it into a rifle,

sell it to a ffl,

and then the ffl could sell it as a rifle?

Can a private person in state A assemble a lower into a rifle and send the rifle configured to an ffl in state B and then have it sold?

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26 minutes ago, Mr.Forks said:

Gotcha,

So someone would have to buy the stripped lower in one state,

assemble it into a rifle,

sell it to a ffl,

and then the ffl could sell it as a rifle?

Can a private person in state A assemble a lower into a rifle and send the rifle configured to an ffl in state B and then have it sold?

Yes. Or the state A could send the lower to an ffl in B to be transferred.

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