CCW Question in the car

[NJGlock19 0]

Hey everyone,

So recently acquired my CCW. My question is specifically regarding when in the vehicle.

When transporting a firearm it has to be in the trunk separate from the ammo without a CCW, but I can travel wit it on me with my CCW.

So If I am going into a business where I cannot carry, so I have to unload the weapon and lock it separate from the ammo in the trunk? Am I allowed to keep it locked in another place in the car with the CCW? Just curious on the interpretation, as still finding driving with it can be uncomfortable with certain holsters, and I want to be manipulating the firearm as little as possible.

I appreciate anyone's thoughts!

[NJ_Sig 37]

This is from the Atlantic County CCW FB group. I lock it up loaded in it’s holster in my portable safe that has a cable to the seat frame out of sight as per (2)

 

 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

28 minutes ago, NJ_Sig said:

I lock it up loaded in it’s holster in my portable safe that has a cable to the seat frame out of sight as per (2)

That says handgun OR ammunition. A loaded gun is a handgun AND ammunition. I think you're on dicey ground if anyone broke into your car and took your loaded gun.

I don't think we should have to disarm anywhere. These so-called sensitive places where we're supposedly going to find significant numbers of vulnerable people are precisely where responsible, law abiding adults SHOULD be carrying.

[NJ_Sig 37]

32 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

That says handgun OR ammunition. A loaded gun is a handgun AND ammunition. I think you're on dicey ground if anyone broke into your car and took your loaded gun.

I don't think we should have to disarm anywhere. These so-called sensitive places where we're supposedly going to find significant numbers of vulnerable people are precisely where responsible, law abiding adults SHOULD be carrying.

Mr. Stu I see where you’re coming from but (1) states transport a concealed handgun or ammunition within a vehicle into or out of the parking area, provided that the handgun is unloaded……..

(2) does not include - provided that the handgun is unloaded, and (3) doesn’t specify that the handgun has to be unloaded when stored in a lockbox within the vehicle

I’m not giving legal advice this is just what I do from the way I read it. I totally agree we shouldn’t have to disarm anywhere except for sitting at a bar, which I’m sure there’s plenty that would disagree with that part. Murphy et al is just making all the sensitive places soft targets

 

[NJGlock19 0]

NJSig, I bought the same type of safe tats tethered to my car as well. Do you have that in your trunk or like under the drivers seat?

[NJ_Sig 37]

15 minutes ago, NJGlock19 said:

NJSig, I bought the same type of safe tats tethered to my car as well. Do you have that in your trunk or like under the drivers seat?

I keep it under the seat with a black towel covering it. I have a Jeep, but either way I’m not keen on walking to the back of the Jeep standing in the open, removing the holster to place in the safe 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

  

14 hours ago, NJ_Sig said:

Mr. Stu I see where you’re coming from but (1) states transport a concealed handgun or ammunition within a vehicle into or out of the parking area, provided that the handgun is unloaded……..

(2) does not include - provided that the handgun is unloaded, and (3) doesn’t specify that the handgun has to be unloaded when stored in a lockbox within the vehicle

I’m not giving legal advice this is just what I do from the way I read it. I totally agree we shouldn’t have to disarm anywhere except for sitting at a bar, which I’m sure there’s plenty that would disagree with that part. Murphy et al is just making all the sensitive places soft targets

 

 

So you made me look it up - ya bugger!

2C:58-4.6 Prohibited areas, carrying, firearms, destructive device.

7.   Places where the carrying of a firearm or destructive device is prohibited.

...

 b. (1) A person, other than a person lawfully carrying a firearm within the authorized scope of an exemption set forth in subsection a., c., or l. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who is otherwise authorized under the law to carry or transport a firearm shall not do so while in a vehicle in New Jersey, unless the handgun is unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, gunbox, or locked unloaded in the trunk of the vehicle.
 
   (2) A holder of a valid and lawfully issued permit to carry a handgun shall not leave a handgun outside of their immediate possession or control within a parked vehicle, unless the handgun is unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or gunbox, and is not visible from outside of the vehicle, or is locked unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the vehicle.

Part b.(1) was blocked by the preliminary injunction, but part b.(2) was not. It is pretty clear that leaving a loaded gun in your vehicle is not allowed (emphasis added)

 

[NJGlock19 0]

So in that case, I can have the firearm stored unloaded in my lock box tethered to my vehicle when not using it out of sight. So to be compliant Can I have it under the driver seat?

Also for the magazine what would be acceptable to keep that in then in that case? I'm assuming I won't need 2 safes for the gun and ammo lol.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

2 minutes ago, NJGlock19 said:

So in that case, I can have the firearm stored unloaded in my lock box tethered to my vehicle when not using it out of sight. So to be compliant Can I have it under the driver seat?

I think you have answered your own question. So long as the box is out of sight when under the seat, why not?

Also note, the statute says nothing about being tethered to the vehicle. It says one option is a securely fastened case - a soft pistol slip with the zipper closed would suffice. I'm not saying that is the best idea, just taking the words of the statute on their face.

4 minutes ago, NJGlock19 said:

Also for the magazine what would be acceptable to keep that in then in that case? I'm assuming I won't need 2 safes for the gun and ammo lol.

The statute speaks only about the firearm. There is no stipulation on what you must or must not do with the magazine.

[NJGlock19 0]

 Thanks Mr. Stu im just trying to make sure im doing the right thing here with the gun and the ammo, NJ doesnt make this easy lol

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I realize that ANJRPC is fighting NJ on many of the CCW laws, but the requirement to unload a gun before securing it needs to be addressed, IMHO.  It is needlessly inconvenient, and potentially dangerous, to have to unload a gun for storage, rather than just removing it from one's belt intact with the holster before locking it in a box, a locking console, or a trunk. Upon return, the holster can then just be reattached to one's belt, without ever having to actually manipulate the firearm. 

[xXxplosive 824]

.....all these types of insignificant little battles that cost monies and time are a distraction ....direct your attention to the real issue.....the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution.....omo.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

6 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

I realize that ANJRPC is fighting NJ on many of the CCW laws, but the requirement to unload a gun before securing it needs to be addressed, IMHO.  It is needlessly inconvenient, and potentially dangerous, to have to unload a gun for storage, rather than just removing it from one's belt intact with the holster before locking it in a box, a locking console, or a trunk. Upon return, the holster can then just be reattached to one's belt, without ever having to actually manipulate the firearm. 

Don't bring common sense into this state, bro!

[brucin 923]

3 hours ago, CMJeepster said:

Don't bring common sense into this state, bro!

Agreed sensitive place is anyplace that has metal detectors and armed security. Noting else qualifies as a sensitive place.

[NJ_Sig 37]

 

 

@Mr.Stu 

I’ve been looking like crazy trying to find the latest update. I tried researching the statute but so many versions come up dating back to the carry killer bill I can’t make sense of the changes and timeline.  I found this from handgunlaw.us specific to parking at a sensitive place. I’m not sure if there were more changes after this. 

Over the last couple days I spoke with 3 different LEO’s I know from different towns, one of which is the department’s firearms instructor. I know LEO’s are not attorneys. All 3 agreed that the laws are all over the place, vague and confusing to make it difficult for us. They all said they would not nail a legal carrier for storing their pistol loaded in its holster that covers the trigger in a locked safe placed out of view, as this is the safest way to do it. However we know there’s a small percentage that would be happy to find any reason to nail us.  It’s ridiculous to have us expose ourselves to the risk of an ND/AD to unload and store our pistol. One of them is going to reach out higher up the command ladder to find out for sure about this law. I’ll update when he gets back to me. It might be a couple weeks as he’s headed for vacation soon. In the meantime when I have time I’ll try to reach out to US Law Shield 

[NJGlock19 0]

7 minutes ago, NJ_Sig said:

 

 

@Mr.Stu 

I’ve been looking like crazy trying to find the latest update. I tried researching the statute but so many versions come up dating back to the carry killer bill I can’t make sense of the changes and timeline.  I found this from handgunlaw.us specific to parking at a sensitive place. I’m not sure if there were more changes after this. 

Over the last couple days I spoke with 3 different LEO’s I know from different towns, one of which is the department’s firearms instructor. I know LEO’s are not attorneys. All 3 agreed that the laws are all over the place, vague and confusing to make it difficult for us. They all said they would not nail a legal carrier for storing their pistol loaded in its holster that covers the trigger in a locked safe placed out of view, as this is the safest way to do it. However we know there’s a small percentage that would be happy to find any reason to nail us.  It’s ridiculous to have us expose ourselves to the risk of an ND/AD to unload and store our pistol. One of them is going to reach out higher up the command ladder to find out for sure about this law. I’ll update when he gets back to me. It might be a couple weeks as he’s headed for vacation soon. In the meantime when I have time I’ll try to reach out to US Law Shield 

Please let me know I’m dying to know what they say!

[ESB 247]

Can a loaded magazine be in the same secured lockbox as the empty handgun (ie no magazine in gun and no round in chamber)?    

[NJGlock19 0]

1 hour ago, ESB said:

Can a loaded magazine be in the same secured lockbox as the empty handgun (ie no magazine in gun and no round in chamber)?    

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Like how it reads can it? Or do i have to have some type of seperate locked box for the magazine?

[ESB 247]

It seems that you could just leave the loaded magazine on top of the lock box legally, but locked up inside the same box MIGHT be illegal?  Seems stupid, but then it is NJ.  

[NJGlock19 0]

10 minutes ago, ESB said:

It seems that you could just leave the loaded magazine on top of the lock box legally, but locked up inside the same box MIGHT be illegal?  Seems stupid, but then it is NJ.  

I agree I’m just trying to see what is the proper legal way to store it now that I have a CCW. So far difficult to see what the straight answer is

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

8 hours ago, NJ_Sig said:

 

 

@Mr.Stu 

I’ve been looking like crazy trying to find the latest update. I tried researching the statute but so many versions come up dating back to the carry killer bill I can’t make sense of the changes and timeline.  I found this from handgunlaw.us specific to parking at a sensitive place. I’m not sure if there were more changes after this. 

Over the last couple days I spoke with 3 different LEO’s I know from different towns, one of which is the department’s firearms instructor. I know LEO’s are not attorneys. All 3 agreed that the laws are all over the place, vague and confusing to make it difficult for us. They all said they would not nail a legal carrier for storing their pistol loaded in its holster that covers the trigger in a locked safe placed out of view, as this is the safest way to do it. However we know there’s a small percentage that would be happy to find any reason to nail us.  It’s ridiculous to have us expose ourselves to the risk of an ND/AD to unload and store our pistol. One of them is going to reach out higher up the command ladder to find out for sure about this law. I’ll update when he gets back to me. It might be a couple weeks as he’s headed for vacation soon. In the meantime when I have time I’ll try to reach out to US Law Shield 

Where are you getting that from? The statute I quoted is from here: https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll/statutes/1/2750/3546?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu

This is the state's own repository for the statutes.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Nappen says to just throw the mag in your pocket.  There's no issue with having it with you, I guess unless you are going to have to go through a metal detector.  So to extrapolate from there, having it anywhere in your car should be OK, except for in the locked box with your gun. 

[NJ_Sig 37]

8 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Where are you getting that from? The statute I quoted is from here: https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll/statutes/1/2750/3546?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu

This is the state's own repository for the statutes.

@Mr.Stu Thanks for the link. But where I’m confused because this looks like it’s from when we weren’t able to carry in a vehicle or am I reading this wrong?

 

[NJ_Sig 37]

@Mr.Stu Never mind. Sorry for all the back and forth. I appreciate your help and input

I just found this from Evan Nappen’s Podcast Episode 157. It really makes no sense to have to take the gun out of the holster and unload it to place it in a safe, when it’s much safer to place it in the safe while it’s in the holster but that’s NJ

 

Evan Nappen 41:04

Now you cannot leave your handgun outside of your immediate possession or control within a parked vehicle. It has to be unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case not visible from the outside. The same as if you’re going to end up in a prohibited place. If you’re in the parking area, you are allowed to put the handgun unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, gun box, unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the vehicle. You can store it in a lockbox out of plain view. Listen, the simple best way to handle all those situations is this. You’ve gone through all this to get your carry license, and you’ve gone through the training of the gun. Get the car gun safe. They’re less than 50 bucks. They have a cable that wraps around the base of the seat. Secure your handgun, unloaded, in the locking car gun safe. It’s now unloaded. Slide the little box under the seat after you’ve secured it locked in its container. That’s what responsible gun owners do. You don’t want your gun stolen. You want to make sure that you’re within the law. Come on, let’s just do the right thing here and secure your handgun in this manner. Not just in a closed and fastened case out of view but use the car gun safe. Really protect your gun, protect your gun rights, be responsible here. That’s my strong suggestion to do that.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

29 minutes ago, NJ_Sig said:

@Mr.Stu Thanks for the link. But where I’m confused because this looks like it’s from when we weren’t able to carry in a vehicle or am I reading this wrong?

 

You are reading it correctly. Part b.(1) is enjoined by the preliminary injunction so carrying in a car is allowed. Part b.(2) is not enjoined, so it is still in effect. 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

3 minutes ago, NJ_Sig said:

It really makes no sense

Show me an NJ gun law that does.

[NJ_Sig 37]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Show me an NJ gun law that does.

Great point

[ESB 247]

3 hours ago, NJ_Sig said:

@Mr.Stu Never mind. Sorry for all the back and forth. I appreciate your help and input

I just found this from Evan Nappen’s Podcast Episode 157. It really makes no sense to have to take the gun out of the holster and unload it to place it in a safe, when it’s much safer to place it in the safe while it’s in the holster but that’s NJ

 

Evan Nappen 41:04

Now you cannot leave your handgun outside of your immediate possession or control within a parked vehicle. It has to be unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case not visible from the outside. The same as if you’re going to end up in a prohibited place. If you’re in the parking area, you are allowed to put the handgun unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, gun box, unloaded in the trunk or storage area of the vehicle. You can store it in a lockbox out of plain view. Listen, the simple best way to handle all those situations is this. You’ve gone through all this to get your carry license, and you’ve gone through the training of the gun. Get the car gun safe. They’re less than 50 bucks. They have a cable that wraps around the base of the seat. Secure your handgun, unloaded, in the locking car gun safe. It’s now unloaded. Slide the little box under the seat after you’ve secured it locked in its container. That’s what responsible gun owners do. You don’t want your gun stolen. You want to make sure that you’re within the law. Come on, let’s just do the right thing here and secure your handgun in this manner. Not just in a closed and fastened case out of view but use the car gun safe. Really protect your gun, protect your gun rights, be responsible here. That’s my strong suggestion to do that.

Still doesn't say anything about what to do with the magazine other than it needs to not be inside the gun because the gun needs to be unloaded.  

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, ESB said:

Still doesn't say anything about what to do with the magazine other than it needs to not be inside the gun because the gun needs to be unloaded.  

Laws prohibit behavior. If it is silent on where the mag must be, you can do anything you like with it. 

Take for example the admin code for state parks. That prohibits guns and ammo, so you can't carry the ammo in a state park. For most of the other sensitive places, the law is silent, so you can do what you want. 

[NJ_Sig 37]

59 minutes ago, ESB said:

Still doesn't say anything about what to do with the magazine other than it needs to not be inside the gun because the gun needs to be unloaded.  

I read a comment from someone that was at a US Law Shield seminar with Nappen and he said keep the loaded magazine on you or in a separate area than the lock box. I found this on You Tube