Municipality handgun purchase permit limit per application

[JonF 79]

Does your local PD limit your number of handgun apps at one time? Some do, some don't.

[tinyboy 1]

Good ?? I never asked.

[hotshot 4]

never heard of a limit

[Fishpaw 17]

There is no limit according to State Law. If your town says there is, they are lying to you. Make a call to the NJ State Police Firearm Division, and let them know what your town is doing. A quick 2 minute call to your local Police dept by the State Police will clear up any "confusion" they may have about the number of permits you are allowed. Someone posted this exact problem and solution. When they went to pick up their permits, the Officer said something about too many permits, and the Secretary replied" He called the State Police"...and then he left with all of his permits.

[rscalzo 3]

In many, if not all, towns, the municipality imposes a limit to the number of handgun purchase permits you can apply for at any one time

 

I have no idea what you are basing that comment on but it certainly isn't based on a scientific survey. I have yet to hear of a town that limits HPP applications or the number requested. While there might be one or two, the comment of most or all is BS.

[JonF 79]

In many, if not all, towns, the municipality imposes a limit to the number of handgun purchase permits you can apply for at any one time

 

I have no idea what you are basing that comment on but it certainly isn't based on a scientific survey. I have yet to hear of a town that limits HPP applications or the number requested. While there might be one or two, the comment of most or all is BS.

 

You are correct, it is not based on any scientifically conducted or officially sponsored survey. It was simply the determination made by myself after limited conversations between myself and the few folks that i've met at the range from neighboring areas who have expressed to me the limits thier local PD communicates when applying for permits. It was not my intention to spew forth misinformation or "BS" onto the forum in a perfunctory manner, rather to find out more about where such limits are being imposed. Apparently, according to several board member that have replied, this is not state law and thus cannot be enforced. I will edit my original post to be less offensive and more objective.

[Maksim 1,504]

Jersey City limits to two.

 

South brunswick, a coworker of mine went to get a few... told him no more than 3 or 4.

[Fishpaw 17]

Im in South Brunswick. The most Ive ever put in for is 4.

[rscalzo 3]

An applicant comes in and asks for six or so. Never uses them after they are typed up and now they are floating around unused. then they have to be tracked down to find out where they are and if they were executed or not.

 

Then some wonder why it takes a department so long to process these permits when it is all done on a as available time frame. By requesting more than you ever have a chance to use you do nothing more than jam up the system and screwing yourself and others trying to get processed in the meantime.

 

Or NJ could do what other states have begun to do. Increase the price of any permits ten fold or more. All it takes is the stroke of a pen and the statutes can be changed.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

An applicant comes in and asks for six or so. Never uses them after they are typed up and now they are floating around unused. then they have to be tracked down to find out where they are and if they were executed or not.

 

Then some wonder why it takes a department so long to process these permits when it is all done on a as available time frame. By requesting more than you ever have a chance to use you do nothing more than jam up the system and screwing yourself and others trying to get processed in the meantime.

 

Or NJ could do what other states have begun to do. Increase the price of any permits ten fold or more. All it takes is the stroke of a pen and the statutes can be changed.

 

Or, NJ could be like 48ish other states and just got rid of this permit nonsense altogether.. oh wow.. that would free up a lot of time in the records departments!

 

Make it so that pistol's have to be transferred through an FFL, like in PA. That should be plenty of security for the liberals.

[Maksim 1,504]

rscalzo, do they track the permits once they are issued?

 

Havent had one permit I didnt use yet. hehe.

[rscalzo 3]

Depends. We did on a time available basis. It takes a lot of time to track down the holder and find out what the status is on the permit. otherwise you would have no idea if they were executed. It is a real pain in the butt for the one guy we have doing that work.

 

We had people coming in requesting four from time to time. That's not a big deal. To have people routinely asking for ten or more to prove a point will only serve to have that area in the department's workload pushed to the rear. Then everyone gets screwed. Now if departments start complaining about them amount of work needed vs. the fee structure, politicians would be more than happy to base the cost on time spent. So each permit takes an hour vs a senior Detective's pay rate. Next think you know, a permit will cost $50.00 each.

 

Look at how many states recently raised costs on firearms related administrative issues. Some permit run in the hundreds.

 

Make it so that pistol's have to be transferred through an FFL, like in PA. That should be plenty of security for the liberals.

 

So what you are saying is prohibit all face to face transactions as is now available? What you have is a FFL charging $30 or so and higher in many cases to handle the transfer. Great deal for the FFL's. Not so great for sellers and buyers. In a way NH has such a system. while they don't require a FFL transfer, state law states it is up to the seller to determine that the seller can legally purchase the firearm and is not prohibited from ownership. sounds simple but if it turns out the buyer is prohibited, the seller is not legally and criminally liable for the sale. So unless the buyer is very well known, you go through a FFL at whatever cost they demand.

[matt6669 71]

I do agree with RS to a point. It's silly to go ask for x amount of permits if you don't need x amount of permits, and your just doing it to prove a point. But on the other hand I have to say, if you buy 10 a month, technically your town shouldn't be able to say anything unless this one gun a month thing takes off. But I do agree, don't abuse the crappy system we already have, otherwise, it'll just get crappier

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Make it so that pistol's have to be transferred through an FFL, like in PA. That should be plenty of security for the liberals.

 

So what you are saying is prohibit all face to face transactions as is now available? What you have is a FFL charging $30 or so and higher in many cases to handle the transfer. Great deal for the FFL's. Not so great for sellers and buyers. In a way NH has such a system. while they don't require a FFL transfer, state law states it is up to the seller to determine that the seller can legally purchase the firearm and is not prohibited from ownership. sounds simple but if it turns out the buyer is prohibited, the seller is not legally and criminally liable for the sale. So unless the buyer is very well known, you go through a FFL at whatever cost they demand.

 

No, what I'm saying is: Obviously a system like in "free America" would not work here (You know, cash and carry), so we need to compromise. I never said to prohibit face to face transfers on long guns. All I said was that a system like PA would be appropriate. Pistols need to go through a FFL there. A face to face pistol transaction in NJ is not really face to face anyways, as it is "Face to Police to Face to Face to Police" and all you are really doing is putting that transaction on the books.

 

If it goes through an FFL, then it's on the books, no need to use public resources/tax money (detectives), no stupid wait time, and hey.. we are helping out private businesses/the economy(the FFL's). I would much rather pay a few bucks more and have my pistol transferred today, rather than pay the permit fee plus the background check fee, plus the undetermined wait time.

 

That's all I'm saying.. if you can find a hole in my idea, I would be happy to debate it with you. But hey, it works in PA!

[rscalzo 3]

Pistols need to go through a FFL there

 

I was thinking about it last night. No doubt the current system could be improved. It is old and a massive cost of time and manpower, neither which is in much supply right now. Years back when departments had staffing it worked somewhat better. Today with reduced manpower, in takes time as many know.

 

The FFL clearance might be worth a look but I'd like to see a state set fee structure to avoid scalping of transfers. Of course on the other end you need improvements and a increase of staff to run the NICs checks.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Pistols need to go through a FFL there

 

I was thinking about it last night. No doubt the current system could be improved. It is old and a massive cost of time and manpower, neither which is in much supply right now. Years back when departments had staffing it worked somewhat better. Today with reduced manpower, in takes time as many know.

 

The FFL clearance might be worth a look but I'd like to see a state set fee structure to avoid scalping of transfers. Of course on the other end you need improvements and a increase of staff to run the NICs checks.

 

This is all true.

 

But, I'm kinda inclined to think that the free market would dictate the prices of FFL Transfers. There are some guys who charge $60 or more, but then there are guys who charge $20 or $30. The guys who charge less would get more business.

 

Your second point about NICS is also true, and I'm only going on hearsay and rumors on this issue, but I was under the assumption that NJ uses their own system based at the state police, whereas every other state uses a Federal System from the FBI. So once again, if this is the case, why wouldn't it be a good idea to do what every other state is doing?

 

If the cost of business goes up, outsourcing is a very viable option in most cases, so the State could outsource to FFL's and the FBI..

[Fishpaw 17]

Why would it take more time to process 10 permits than just one or two? I cant believe that if you applied for 10 permits they would do 10 separate background checks on you. They just do the single checks and type up one two or as many as you applied for. Other than time spent at the type writer, it shouldnt be any extra time. As for unused permits, they can only be used by the person they are issued to and only for 3 months. Its the FFL's or sellers responsibility to check and make sure they havent expired. If they are past their freshness date, they are now void and cannot be used. I really dont see where the backlog is.

[ClownBaby 0]

There is no limit according to State Law. If your town says there is, they are lying to you. Make a call to the NJ State Police Firearm Division, and let them know what your town is doing. A quick 2 minute call to your local Police dept by the State Police will clear up any "confusion" they may have about the number of permits you are allowed. Someone posted this exact problem and solution. When they went to pick up their permits, the Officer said something about too many permits, and the Secretary replied" He called the State Police"...and then he left with all of his permits.

 

only problem is, you will be targeted by your local PD. A friend of mine had this happen. people hate when someone goes above their heads.

[rscalzo 3]

Why would it take more time to process 10 permits than just one or two? I cant believe that if you applied for 10 permits they would do 10 separate background checks on you

 

Read the posts. I explained why it takes more time.

[Fishpaw 17]

Why would it take more time to process 10 permits than just one or two? I cant believe that if you applied for 10 permits they would do 10 separate background checks on you

 

Read the posts. I explained why it takes more time.

 

 

If they are expired and can no longer be used, why do they have to be tracked down? At that point they are useless.

[rscalzo 3]

The forms are out in the field. All that is required is a simple change of date. They also have to be tracked to inquire if they have been executed as forms must be returned to the issuing agency. They simply aren't handed to the applicant and forgotten about. They is a lot of administrative work after they have been issued. As this work is being done for the most part by the same officer issuing them in the first place, the process gets slowed down by requesting permits you know you have no need for in the first place.

 

Simply put, you are just screwing yourself and others waiting. When people complain about the time required to get the permits, this is one reason. Of course the state could raise the cost to say $50 per permit to cover the costs of increasing manpower to process more quickly. If you think that wouldn't happen, look around the country. Many states recently increased the fees on permits to cover processing costs.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

The forms are out in the field. All that is required is a simple change of date. They also have to be tracked to inquire if they have been executed as forms must be returned to the issuing agency. They simply aren't handed to the applicant and forgotten about. They is a lot of administrative work after they have been issued. As this work is being done for the most part by the same officer issuing them in the first place, the process gets slowed down by requesting permits you know you have no need for in the first place.

 

Simply put, you are just screwing yourself and others waiting. When people complain about the time required to get the permits, this is one reason. Of course the state could raise the cost to say $50 per permit to cover the costs of increasing manpower to process more quickly. If you think that wouldn't happen, look around the country. Many states recently increased the fees on permits to cover processing costs.

 

I'm not flaming you, I know we are all on the same team on this site, but.. you are in favor of a $50 per permit fee that goes to the state, ie, bigger government. When it costs about $46 to transfer a gun anyways ($30 FFL Transfer + $16 NICS). Wouldn't my plan make more sense in this case?

[PK90 3,573]

...So each permit takes an hour vs a senior Detective's pay rate. Next think you know, a permit will cost $50.00 each...

The only extra time needed is typing or handwriting in the info on each permit. AFAIK, no other man hours are incurred.

The forms are out in the field. All that is required is a simple change of date. They also have to be tracked to inquire if they have been executed as forms must be returned to the issuing agency. They simply aren't handed to the applicant and forgotten about. They is a lot of administrative work after they have been issued. As this work is being done for the most part by the same officer issuing them in the first place' date=' the process gets slowed down by requesting permits you know you have no need for in the first place...[/quote']Must be a department SOP. I can assure you, other PDs do not care what happens to them.

[tony357 386]

HERE is what you do when you hand over the permits tell them after 90 experation if it was not used to return the unused permits back to the dept. if they are not returned then a fee will be applied for chasing them down.

[rscalzo 3]

Must be a department SOP. I can assure you, other PDs do not care what happens to them.

 

Other departments can do whatever they want to do. when the state comes into audit those departments and they are stuck with their thumb up their butt, then they can cry. when the state comes in and asks why the permit was not forwarded to them, do you seriously think they are going to accept the answer that the applicant never sent it back to them?

 

Shoddy work isn't that way to go. Think maybe shoddy paperwork as an FFL is going to win any favors from the ATF?

 

Returning the unused ones is a nice thought. But followups are still required.