Edison wants you to sign an Employer Release form - Kosher?

[mdp0430 0]

Hi everyone,

 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. So, I've made decision to apply for the FID and permit in Edison. I've read this forum and the pertinent statutes with a discerning eye (I recently became an attorney).

 

Apparently, the township of Edison is requiring that applicants fill out a release so that they may contact your employer as part of their investigation to determine your eligibility. Does this seem proper to you? On the one hand, I can understand the public policy behind conducting a thorough investigation. On the other hand, I feel that this practice is over-reaching. For example, what information from my employer would they receive that wouldn't be made available in their background searches? At the end of the day, isn't this just a deterrent to those applicants who don't want their employers to know that they have applied for a permit for fear that they would become ostracized? Is anyone aware of other towns with similar policies? I suppose I don't have much of a choice...

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and comments...

 

Thanks!

[djg0770 481]

I suppose I don't have much of a choice...

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and comments...

 

Thanks!

 

Anything, ANYTHING, beyond the STS-033 and SP-066 forms are not legal and do NOT need to be signed or filled out by you.

[Malsua 1,422]

I suppose I don't have much of a choice...

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and comments...

 

Thanks!

 

Anything, ANYTHING, beyond the STS-033 and SP-066 forms are not legal and do NOT need to be signed or filled out by you.

 

Of course the police do have leeway as to their "investigation" and subsequently if they don't have all the information they want, they just deny you.

 

My advice is to just fill it out and be done. You could fight it, but at what expense? Easier to move to PA at that point.

[rscalzo 3]

The STS-33 requires employer information along with a phone number. It is quite obvious that it is there for use during the application process. Why a separate form is required seems redundant.

[NJ609 22]

Franklin township does all sorts of illegal things. If you don't fill out the forms don't expect to get a card, EVER. Sadly "Jonny Law" doesn't have to follow the rules in our scumbag state.

[Urban Grunt 44]

I work for myself and the police never call me to ask me about myself.

[Caine 147]

Like rscalzo said, they already ask for your employer info in STS-033. So, if they wanted to call, I'm sure they could regardless of your signing a release. That said, as far as I know, no one ever called my employer regarding my FID. I'm in a different town tho, and I work in the city, so who knows.

[mdp0430 0]

Hmmm, so are we to imply that by asking for your employer contact information in the ST33, contacting your employer is permitted? If so, then the release form is really just a tool to ensure your employer's cooperation with the police and as such, would be permitted, justified, etc.

[Caine 147]

I'm not a lawyer, and can't say if simply putting your employers info on the 033 form implicitly grants the PD the right to call your employer. I'm just saying you're already giving them the info, so how hard would it really be for them to call if they wanted to? That said, maybe there's some law that requires explicit permission to call an employer that I'm not aware of.

 

If it was me, I'd call Firearms Investigation Unit of the State Police and ask them about it.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/inve ... -unit.html

[Blackfox 1]

I can't remember been ask for my employers info when I applied for my FID. Every time I asked for a pistol permit I wrote unemployed, they never question me.

[ronoverdrive 0]

I'd print out the paperwork from the State PD website, fill them out, and hand them in. If they give you flack about missing paperwork I'd tell them simply that I filled out all the REQUIRED forms by the State Government.

[kenw 293]

I'd print out the paperwork from the State PD website, fill them out, and hand them in. If they give you flack about missing paperwork I'd tell them simply that I filled out all the REQUIRED forms by the State Government.

What's to stop them from issuing a denial based on the incomplete paperwork? And then, the next time the application goes in, there's already a denial on the books. Best to just comply with their requirements and bite your tongue. Why become a test case??

[djg0770 481]

Best to just comply with their requirements and bite your tongue.

 

AFTER my FPID and first PP, for subsequent PP's I refused to fill out any other paperwork except the 2 forms allowed by the state. Our rights have been trampled on enough in this state. All it takes for freedom to be lost is for good men to do NOTHING.

 

I understand your position Ken, it IS much easier to not rock the boat - but that same attitude contributed to other atrocities in the 1940's :evil: I don't mean for you to take offense, but when will we put our foot down?

[kenw 293]

No offense taken, Dan. I'm aware of the consequences of doing nothing, but it's a matter of scale. Yeah, our rights have been trampled, but since the forms already have employer contact info required, it's just an inconvenient redundancy. Didn't I read somewhere here that some municipalities require a form filled out by everyone in the household granting permission for firearms documents. That's unacceptable and out of bounds, and I wouldn't stand for it, and I would risk denial to make that point if I were applying in one of those places, and would gladly become the test case under those circumstances.

 

Of course it's an infringement, but the price to pay for fighting it may be too high. Denial, and then a lawyer to get it cleared up before the next application processes through. May not be worth the time and expense for something that's probably not malicious (I hope). Has there ever been a case where an application was denied and the denial withstood appeal simply on the opinion of an employer? I don't know, but if an employer is willing to possibly be called to testify under oath at an appeal hearing, maybe there's something there. Of course the laws are unfair and draconian, but there's a chance that sometimes they actually catch someone who maybe should be denied.

 

As far as I know, we all of us here are reasonably stable and behave the same way in the rest of our lives as we do on the range. but what about someone who may be prone to violent outbursts, or shows up at work drunk, or stoned, or is an avowed and vocal (place something here) hater? Maybe denial isn't such a bad thing in such an instance. How many times have we read about some incident, and the first thing we all say is (everybody join in now) "I hope he wasn't a legal owner of that thing"?

 

I'm not taking a side here, just looking at a possible reason for the additional bs. On the other hand, it may be just a ploy to make it harder to be approved. I don't know.

 

K

[Caine 147]

I always find myself going back and forth with issues like this. I'm originally from NYC... suffice to say, it is not a firearms friendly town. So much so, that I basically said to hell with it, it's not worth the headaches and jumping thru hoops to own a firearm.

 

Fast forward to a year and a couple months ago, and I moved to NJ. After we had settled in, first thing I did was apply for my FID and some PPPs. I had read about all the BS and general vagueness of NJ laws. But, after 3 months I got all my paperwork, and, aside from getting fingerprinted, it was a relatively painless process.

 

To me, coming from where I'm from, NJ is almost a paradise for gun owners. I own a kick a$$ AR! A Saiga collecting dust in the safe. Hell, there's even a pink .22 in there!

 

So, when I read about all these weird town-by-town one off stipulations for getting an FID, part of me gets really upset and wants to scream at someone, and another part of me just says "well, it's still better than NYC".

 

I think at the end of the day, it's up to each individual to decide what is "too much" and what is "ok, I guess I can live with this".

[djg0770 481]

I am glad that you and I can discuss this in an intelligent and non-threatening manner and that we can each express our opinions without resorting to screaming and name calling or "I'll take my ball and play elsewhere" attitudes.

 

I see your point - especially because they ALREADY ask you for your employer.

 

And I see too that you see my point.

 

And yes, I am that guy that hopes that the idiot who just committed a crime did so with an illegally obtained weapon.

[mdp0430 0]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their insightful replies!

[tony357 386]

Actualy the 2 forms online are not all you need, you also need to fill out a mental health form their are 3 forms you need all together.

[mdp0430 0]

I thought that STS-033 (i.e. FPID/permit) and SP-066 (mental health) were all that you needed. Which other one are you referring to Tony?

[tony357 386]

sorry wrong form, the other form is yellow sbi-212a form. allows use of ss# for background check.

 

[docwalt 1]

Don't get your shorts all bunched up... They are only using your employer as another source

of information about your character. If you do your job you are resposible. If you come to work on time you are responsible.....get the picture...

[223lover 9]

With the last police chief we had, they sent a letter to my boss. The boss was from Paterson, so you know she was anti gun and because she wasn't expecting anything + it was a huge company, at first she didnt get the letter, and when she did she almost threw it out figuring it was a ad from the PBA. The next obstacle was the drill. Why do you want a gun? What are you going to do with it? Why should I send this back? blah blah blah and if she didn't send it back, wha-la no pistol permit. the bottom line is, if they don't get all the paperwork back, you aren't getting your permit. Thank God he has moved on and a voice of reason has taken his place.

 

Oh yeah, they also had a paper on which you had to list every job you ever had, every place you ever lived and if you forgot one, and the detective found it blam. no permit. they took it that you lied on your permit app.

[tbtrout 141]

Don't get your shorts all bunched up... They are only using your employer as another source

of information about your character. If you do your job you are resposible. If you come to work on time you are responsible.....get the picture...

 

And if your boss does not like you or thinks guns are bad that can affect your rights. I am so against sending it to a job. It has no bearing on your personal life and they should not have that much control over you. If you do not want to advertise that you are a gun owner, that can all change after the letter from the Police Dept shows. up.

 

My town started doing this 2 yrs ago. The Facilities Manager who opens up a lot of the mail walks up to me and asks what kind of a pistol am I buying? I asked how do you know and he told me the letter came in for a reference. If I wanted to keep that private it was all over right there. If your boss thinks you a little strange and is an Ideolog, he may be scared and write he does not believe you should have one. That is why you give references who are friends, not people you argue with. Although the whole NJ process is insulting to freedom.

 

It is not any business of your Company to know or have a say whether or not you are capable of owning a firearm.

[223lover 9]

tb, you are correct! If I hadn't lied and told my old boss that I needed the paperwork because i inherited an old shotgun from my grand father, she NEVER would have signed the papers. Not to mention the power trip she was on every day. The paperwork would have been the ultimate power.

[SpecialK 193]

Although the whole NJ process is insulting to freedom.

 

I was seriously getting angry reading some of the replies here and how people are treated in this state. Thanks tb for that little bit to make me feel better slightly.

 

I am going to be trying to get my FID probably before I move to NJ. I will however will not jump through any more hoops than are "legally" set up by the state. I rather be denied 100 times than give into scare tactics by local PD's that don't think the law applies to them. I am not someone to mess with when it comes to my freedoms, I didn't serve to be told to go fuck myself.

[tbtrout 141]

Specil K,

 

I do not want to sound condescending, but a lot of NJ residents do not know any better. There are many 1st generation, young gun owners that read the papers and say this is what I have to do. If anyone moves here from NYC our process is a breeze in comparisson. There are many people who think well this sounds reasonable and many of us who do not have the time or money to challenge the system or risk a denial on our record to make all subsequent purchases a major PIA.

 

Education and voting is how we can change this mentality.

[SpecialK 193]

well you will have my vote and my willingness to educate once I get there, because I am going to be seriously pissed off when I have to not only jump through hoops to get new guns, but pay way more for them since they are so hard to get when i get there.

 

I walked into the gun shop here, filled out the paper work for my NCIS, waited just over an hour for it to run then walked out with my new shotgun, just the other day. I am going to miss that very much so when I move to stinkville.

[kenw 293]

Although the whole NJ process is insulting to freedom.

I couldn't agree more.

 

But, since this is the system we have at the moment,

 

That is why you give references who are friends, not people you argue with.

I can see the other side of this. Friends are people who you generally agree with about most things, and who will watch your back, even if they have to lie to do it.

 

If you hate "Martians" because you consider them a threat to your way of life and would seriously wish them all dead, then at least some of your friends will agree with you.

If you go on weekend drug binges, at least some of your friends do, too.

If you're a radical vegan who's capable of shooting up a McDonald's just for serving meat, or have any other dangerous character faults for which you should be denied, some of your friends may, too.

 

So, when they get the forms, they'll lie through their teeth, saying how wonderful and responsible you are, and you'll get your permits and go on your merry way. But you may snap, and we'll read about you in the Star-Ledger, and we'll all say it again: "I hope that wasn't a legally owned gun".

 

The world is full of crazy people, and since I'm not legally allowed to protect myself from them, I don't want them armed when they snap, and getting an objective opinion on their character, from someone who knows them in a professional capacity, doesn't seem too much to ask to cull the potential herd of armed nutjobs.

[djg0770 481]

Ken,

 

You imply that an employer is an objective opinion, I don't completely agree. If I were a teacher - I would be seriously concerned about the PD contacting anyone where I work (for instance).

 

But the friends part - yup, agreed. In any case, there's still a criminal background check and a mental health check, which, in my opinion tell more about your background than anything else. It blows my mind though (ie VA Tech) when a mental patient is issued guns legally.

[tbtrout 141]

Ken, if someone is hell bent on doing bad things, the weapon of choice is anecdotel. Daily we read stories about people who run down others in vehicles or beat others with bats, stab them with the Turkey Carving Knife. You do not need a gun to commit murder. I honestly see no reason why we have these regs except as a way for the Pols to remind us that they grant us our rights and it is at their discretion that we are allowed to exercise them. It is control pure and simple.