Denied! Read This!....

[johnisme 0]

CCW Denied... Page loads slow but a good read... Apparently NJ laws out weigh the Constitution. Ha!

 

http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/page.htm ... 0100421376

[Guest]

With some luck this one will follow Heller's and McDonald's way

[AtlanticCounty 0]

CCW Denied... Page loads slow but a good read... Apparently NJ laws out weigh the Constitution. Ha!

 

http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/page.htm ... 0100421376

 

The guy had many arguments that weren't even addressed. Can he appeal further?

[johnisme 0]

Not really sure, but I would say not... It would have to be accepted for review by a Federal appeals court... They probably wont hear the case...

[PeteF 1,044]

Its really amazing how a court selectively interprets a law

 

So this part count

2C:58-3c, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun

 

But this part is total irrelevant?

2C:58-3c that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing.

[GoNRA 12]

couldn't you say that you filled out the paperwork and such, then after 60 days just start walking around with the firearm concealed, and if you ever got caught, just say I haven't check the mail in the past [x] amount of days. I assumed it was approved?

[matt6669 71]

couldn't you say that you filled out the paperwork and such, then after 60 days just start walking around with the firearm concealed, and if you ever got caught, just say I haven't check the mail in the past [x] amount of days. I assumed it was approved?

 

Doubtful b/c it's required by law to always have your CCW permit on you at all times.

 

Conflicting rules b/c NJ is teh SUCK

[Matt 0]

CCW Denied... Page loads slow but a good read... Apparently NJ laws out weigh the Constitution. Ha!

 

http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/page.htm ... 0100421376

 

So if a case like this is brought up after the McDonald case is ruled on (assuming it is in our favor) could this have gone the other way? Something like that could finally open the floodgates.

[johnisme 0]

I doubt it as they court ruled that he met all of the qualifications to be issued the CCW except purpose , i.e. high risk business owner (which is not even a guarantee). This case was about a CCW vs. Mcdonald is more in reference to the ability to purchase and register a handgun, two different things. Due to states rights granted after the civil war, states can dictate laws in their own states. Only way we will be able to carry in NJ is if a specific law is passed by the state senate granting that exact permission. As NJ is probably one if the most strict gun law states in the country, it will be a difficult battle.

[KpdPipes 388]

I doubt it as they court ruled that he met all of the qualifications to be issued the CCW except purpose , i.e. high risk business owner (which is not even a guarantee). This case was about a CCW vs. Mcdonald is more in reference to the ability to purchase and register a handgun, two different things. Due to states rights granted after the civil war, states can dictate laws in their own states. Only way we will be able to carry in NJ is if a specific law is passed by the state senate granting that exact permission. As NJ is probably one if the most strict gun law states in the country, it will be a difficult battle.

 

 

Sorry and i dont mean to sound like a Dick..but Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The US Constitution was designed SOLELY to apply to the Federal Government and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ONLY. It put (what the founders thought of as) Stringent limitations on the Power of the Federal Government, and Ceeded EVERYTHING else to the states..which is why each individual State has it's own Constitution (NJ does not, and has NEVER had an RKBA in our state Constitution) "States Rights" existed from the beginning. The Civil war was fought BECAUSE the Southern States mindset was that they were literally Independant Nations, and the Federal Govt had NO control over them, and they seceeded because the Federal Govt "Infringed upon their State's Rights". Over time, because of abuses on the State's parts, certain Ammendments of the US constitution have been "incorporated" under the 14th Ammendment (Essentially Stripping those "State's Rights" in those applications) making the US Constitutional protections apply to the individual states. Heller did not APPLY to ANY of the states because DC is a wholly federal enclave and falls ONLY under the jusridiction of the Federal Courts., and Heller (and now McDonald) only deal with the fact that those particular cities enacted TOTAL bans. During the arguments in the Heller case, even the "Conservative" justices stated CLEARLY that "Reasonable Restrictions" woul dbe allowed. mcDonald is NOT going to change anything here, except POSSIBLY to get the wording of 2C:39 changed. Unless and until someone with a buttload of money, or a Law Degree and a lot of free time pins SCOTUS down on what is and is not "Reasonable" things are not going to change in NJ.

 

To recap the Cliff's Notes. The US Constitutional protections dont apply to the states unless that particular Protection has been Incorporated in a SCOTUS decision. the STATES were supposed to Police temselves through their own constitutions. NJ's protections Mirror EVERY SINGLE Point that would eventually be in the US Constitution (Nj's was in effect on 2 July 1776) except the RKBA.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

What a bunch of assholes. Nothing else to say but that. They selectively interpreted the law in a manner that fit their beliefs regarding gun control, and not what was actually written.

 

Welp, if the legislature won't listen, the Superior Court won't act on behalf of the written law, then what option is there?

[johnisme 0]

KPDPipes... I agree I could be wrong as far as states rights, but we agree on everything else, including the fact that its going to massive amounts of money and effort to get such a law passed. Same team same dream, no need to get upset

[BCeagle 12]

NJ policticians and State Supreme Court = crooks and D-bags.

[NJ609 22]

lol... Surprise! NJ SUCKS! =D

[johnisme 0]

The most outragous part of this whole case is that they did not respond to him within 60 days, he should have been automatically approved!!!! The law clearly states: "If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing."

 

The excuse that they thought they mailed the denial to him does not cut it.

[njpilot 671]

What a bunch of assholes. Nothing else to say but that. They selectively interpreted the law in a manner that fit their beliefs regarding gun control, and not what was actually written.

 

Welp, if the legislature won't listen, the Superior Court won't act on behalf of the written law, then what option is there?

 

 

Move the hell out of this f*cked up p.o.s. state!!

[tommy3rd 132]

The most outragous part of this whole case is that they did not respond to him within 60 days, he should have been automatically approved!!!! The law clearly states: "If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing."

 

The excuse that they thought they mailed the denial to him does not cut it.

Even if the app was approved by the Chief of Police or NJSP Superintendent, you still have to go in front of a superior court judge to plead your case and she/he ultimately makes the decision.

[NJgunowner86 0]

The 60 days denial thing is a "gotcha"

 

After 60 days, you can assume your permit was approved and go carrying, according to one law.

 

However, according to another law, you must have the permit on you at all times when carrying. An NJ CCW permit says the same thing as well right on the card, that this card must be carried at all times.

 

So you can submit an app, assume it got approved on the 61st day, and go carry, but the first time you're printing in the 7-11 and someone makes a MWAG call, or god forbid you have to defend yourself, you will promptly be arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon, and likely face jail time.

 

This is also discounting the fact that a CCW is largely useless in NJ even if you have one, as we have duty to retreat in public anyway.

[KpdPipes 388]

KPDPipes... I agree I could be wrong as far as states rights, but we agree on everything else, including the fact that its going to massive amounts of money and effort to get such a law passed. Same team same dream, no need to get upset

 

 

Not Upset at all..although I may redo that and have Mak put it as a Sticky, so people understand that the 2nd Ammendment isnt What they thoguht it was. Look, i'm no constitutional scholar..but i have to weigh my decisions at work DAILY on whether or not something I do is or isnt Constitutional, either by State or Federal caselaw. I've had people call me everything from a Statist Traitor to a communist for trying to explain exactly what the Constitution is, and was SUPPOSED to be, especially on gun issues. Unfortunately many of the people who Scream "Unconstitutional" the loudest have NO Damned Clue of what that document actually says, and means. When Heller was going on, I KEPT telling people that ti wasnt goign to do a damn thing because DC is Federal...Same with McDonald. Pope are already trying to say a Win on McDonald is going to repeal gun laws all over the place..it's NT going to happen. SCOTUS made it clear in Heller that "Reasonable Restrictions" will be allowed..without defining wehat "Reasonable" is. IMO they are going to fall back on the State Legilsatures to determing the definition of "Reasonable" just so they can stay out of this (and we ALL know what the NJ Politicians consider "Reasonable). SCOTUS Ardently Avoided ALL 2nd Ammendment cases since US v Miller, and were frankly dragged kicking and screaming into covering Heller. Yes, there will be more cases that go to SCOTUS to narrow down "Reasonability" but just as these laws werent enacted overnight, they arent going to be changed at once. Also, understand that WE ARE THE MINORITY here... MOST New Jerseyans would support ANY gun laws, Bans or Restrictions because it doesnt concern THEM. IMO we should be allowed to purchase, and possess pretty much anything in the way of Small Arms, up to and Including Crew-Serv ed weapons and Artillery (EVERY piece of Artilelry used in the Revolutionary war that hadnt been captured from the British was PRIVATELY OWNED, and not owned by the Continental Government)