Saiga-12 Legality

[autoxnyc 4]

Hi,

 

What are the restrictions on Saiga-12 in NJ? What features or combination of features are banned?

 

Can I get one with pistol grip and fixed stock? Are muzzle brakes OK? I suppose mag cap has to be no more than 5?

 

thanks!

 

- Daniel

[PK90 3,570]

6 round mag max. No pistol grip. Brake okay. Fixed stock only.

[autoxnyc 4]

Thank you.

[Scrap 4]

I almost picked one up on Tuesday, I got a Zastava AK but I came close to getting the Saiga on general principle... Seems really cool.... Never fired one but they look awesome. I might wind up adding this next to my Benelli Supernova and Mossberg 930 SPX ....they seem awesome.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Theyre cool, but I already have a rifle in 7.62x39 and dont need another Ak variant.

 

Id rather get a Saiga-12, and shoot clays with it

[Scrap 4]

Theyre cool, but I already have a rifle in 7.62x39 and dont need another Ak variant.

 

Id rather get a Saiga-12, and shoot clays with it

 

 

Sorry sorry, didn't clarify correctly... I meant I was about to get a Saiga-*12* ... in addition to what I got I almost bought the Saiga-12... it was pretty cool.

 

Still might...I love and hate my Benelli at the same time... so I might wind up with something else, and it might be a Saiga-12

[FFDP82 4]

Hi,

 

What are the restrictions on Saiga-12 in NJ? What features or combination of features are banned?

 

Can I get one with pistol grip and fixed stock? Are muzzle brakes OK? I suppose mag cap has to be no more than 5?

 

thanks!

 

- Daniel

 

Save yourself the money and don't get a muzzle brake for the Saiga 12. Shotguns just don't have the pressure at the muzzle that rifles do for them to be effective, especially not on the Saigas. Some of the reputable manufacturers, such as Tromix and SGM, have said flat out that they provide no noticeable benefit at all. And these are guys who make their living selling this stuff, not just internet hearsay.

 

The only brakes that actually work on a Saiga-12 are the mid-barrel compensators, which require a good deal of work to install (need multiple openings milled/drilled into the barrel) and cost quite a bit of money.

 

Unless you just want to make it look cool, if you want a functional muzzle device on your Saiga-12 get yourself a Poly Choke for it, which allows you to select from several different settings by simple turn of the dial. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com ... ted/Detail There are also various adapters to allow it take Remington, Winchester, or Mossberg chokes as well to share with your other shotguns. And of course there are also the Russian brand choke tubes made for this gun as well.

 

Also, a word of advice when buying a Saiga-12, they are excellent guns but Izhmash has poor QC on them and accidentally mixes barrels meant for military guns onto the line with sporting models, or poorly aligns the gas block and/or ports. If your gun does not have the proper amount and right size gas ports, it will not cycle the bulk pack ammo reliably, or at all.

 

Bring a dental pick and a small flashlight with you to the gun shop. Unscrew the gas selector at the front of the gun, and then remove the small cylindrical gas puck as well. You should be able to probe at least 3, or possibly 4, gas ports with a dental pick. If the shop will not let you check the ports I would advise not purchasing the gun from them.

 

If you end up buying a gun with 2 or fewer ports, or a misaligned gas block, or improperly sized ports (ie the dental pick wont poke through them) your gun is not going to reliably cycle the bulk pack stuff. You'll have to either remove the gas block yourself and re-drill the ports, or send it back for warranty which can take several weeks. Unless you don't care about shooting cheap target loads and will just be shooting expensive buck/slug loads with it, then the ports will matter little to you.

 

Also, make sure you use the gas selector properly. Setting 1 is for buckshot, slugs, and magnums. If the gun doesn't cycle birdshot on setting 1, then set it to setting 2 when shooting birdshot. DO NOT run buck/slugs or magnums or 3" on Setting 2, you will over-gas the gun, which causes the bolt carrier to literally beat itself to death by recoiling too far back and slamming into the back of the receiver. Bad stuff, too much of that will kill your shotgun and replacement bolts/carriers are nearly impossible to come by.

 

You should definitely check these guns out, they are lots of fun. You will be amazed how fast you can burn through 100 round target packs with these things

 

You should see something like this inside the gas block:

[attachment=0]saiga_gas_port_after_mod.jpg[/attachment]

[autoxnyc 4]

Thanks a lot for the tip.

 

I also heard their stock triggers are not all that great. Are their any upgrades available for them? From what I understand the Tapco G2 ones won't work on the sporter models.

 

Hi,

 

What are the restrictions on Saiga-12 in NJ? What features or combination of features are banned?

 

Can I get one with pistol grip and fixed stock? Are muzzle brakes OK? I suppose mag cap has to be no more than 5?

 

thanks!

 

- Daniel

 

Save yourself the money and don't get a muzzle brake for the Saiga 12. Shotguns just don't have the pressure at the muzzle that rifles do for them to be effective, especially not on the Saigas. Some of the reputable manufacturers, such as Tromix and SGM, have said flat out that they provide no noticeable benefit at all. And these are guys who make their living selling this stuff, not just internet hearsay.

 

The only brakes that actually work on a Saiga-12 are the mid-barrel compensators, which require a good deal of work to install (need multiple openings milled/drilled into the barrel) and cost quite a bit of money.

 

Unless you just want to make it look cool, if you want a functional muzzle device on your Saiga-12 get yourself a Poly Choke for it, which allows you to select from several different settings by simple turn of the dial. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com ... ted/Detail There are also various adapters to allow it take Remington, Winchester, or Mossberg chokes as well to share with your other shotguns. And of course there are also the Russian brand choke tubes made for this gun as well.

 

Also, a word of advice when buying a Saiga-12, they are excellent guns but Izhmash has poor QC on them and accidentally mixes barrels meant for military guns onto the line with sporting models, or poorly aligns the gas block and/or ports. If your gun does not have the proper amount and right size gas ports, it will not cycle the bulk pack ammo reliably, or at all.

 

Bring a dental pick and a small flashlight with you to the gun shop. Unscrew the gas selector at the front of the gun, and then remove the small cylindrical gas puck as well. You should be able to probe at least 3, or possibly 4, gas ports with a dental pick. If the shop will not let you check the ports I would advise not purchasing the gun from them.

 

If you end up buying a gun with 2 or fewer ports, or a misaligned gas block, or improperly sized ports (ie the dental pick wont poke through them) your gun is not going to reliably cycle the bulk pack stuff. You'll have to either remove the gas block yourself and re-drill the ports, or send it back for warranty which can take several weeks. Unless you don't care about shooting cheap target loads and will just be shooting expensive buck/slug loads with it, then the ports will matter little to you.

 

You should see something like this inside the gas block:

[attachment=0]saiga_gas_port_after_mod.jpg[/attachment]

[FFDP82 4]

Thanks a lot for the tip.

 

I also heard their stock triggers are not all that great. Are their any upgrades available for them? From what I understand the Tapco G2 ones won't work on the sporter models.

 

No problem. Unfortunately no trigger upgrades for a fanctory configured model The triggers are too far rearward on a factory configured gun for normal trigger groups like the G2 to work. They are "squishy" due to the proprietary linkage system. However while the trigger isn't as good as the more common Mossbergs/Remingtons it's "OK" and isn't too bad once you get used to it. It's a shame we can't convert these things in NJ because the G2 trigger groups are fantastic.

[Guest]

i want a Saiga 12 SO bad.. but the inability to convert it REALLY pisses me off.. i was between a 308 and 12 both in Saiga for my next purchase..

[hiker88 22]

picture borrowed from the saiga forum... but would this be legal here in NJ?

[coldsolderjoint 84]

picture borrowed from the saiga forum... but would this be legal here in NJ?

 

I believe the stock would be. That mag looks too long though.

[hiker88 22]

picture borrowed from the saiga forum... but would this be legal here in NJ?

 

I believe the stock would be. That mag looks too long though.

 

 

Not sure what the capacity of that mag is but I was refering to the legality of the thumbhole stock.

[FFDP82 4]

That is a factory 5 round magazine. Of course it's long, it's five 12 gauge shells single stacked with a gigantic follower needed to push them underneath it.

 

As for the stock legality, it is unclear. The hand in firing position is underneath the action of the weapon, with the web of the hand parallel to the trigger. A certain someone will be here to "disprove" me and that is fine. However, I would not risk that in NJ, not without first having a solid answer from NJSP firearms unit. IMO you should call or send them a letter.

[hiker88 22]

"It's a shame we can't convert these things in NJ because the G2 trigger groups are fantastic."

 

i agree... this is why i'm looking for nj legal options to install an aftermarket trigger group by adding a thumbhole stock. i guess i'll be making a call to the njsp to see what they say.

[FFDP82 4]

"It's a shame we can't convert these things in NJ because the G2 trigger groups are fantastic."

 

i agree... this is why i'm looking for nj legal options to install an aftermarket trigger group by adding a thumbhole stock. i guess i'll be making a call to the njsp to see what they say.

 

Awesome. If you get a response, please let me know. By the way, the stock in question on the gun above is a MAK-90 wood stock (painted camo), you may want to reference that one specifically. It's a great stock that will fit stamped AKs with a nice grip and rubber buttpad.

[jobooone 0]

That is a factory 5 round magazine. Of course it's long, it's five 12 gauge shells single stacked with a gigantic follower needed to push them underneath it.

 

As for the stock legality, it is unclear. The hand in firing position is underneath the action of the weapon, with the web of the hand parallel to the trigger. A certain someone will be here to "disprove" me and that is fine. However, I would not risk that in NJ, not without first having a solid answer from NJSP firearms unit. IMO you should call or send them a letter.

 

 

Hi, I am new to this site. I am unable to view the stock in question, but if you are referring to the RAA skeleton stock offered on some of the Saiga rifles and shotguns it is perfectly legal in NJ. I contacted a Lt. in the NJSP (firearms unit) last week and was advised that the skeleton stock is considered a thumb hole stock.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Hi, I am new to this site. I am unable to view the stock in question, but if you are referring to the RAA skeleton stock offered on some of the Saiga rifles and shotguns it is perfectly legal in NJ. I contacted a Lt. in the NJSP (firearms unit) last week and was advised that the skeleton stock is considered a thumb hole stock.

 

 

with the way things are going.. you might want to get that in writing.. or at least his full name.. but my honest advice is to not use the word Saiga when talking to them... lets not get yet another awesome gun banned..

[Radek 73]

with the way things are going.. you might want to get that in writing.. or at least his full name.. but my honest advice is to not use the word Saiga when talking to them... lets not get yet another awesome gun banned..

 

Yeah, don't call the NJSP ...

[Radek 73]

Not to jack the thread, but if anyone is interested in the Saiga-12, I have one I may want to sell. I mostly use my Remington semi-auto, so don't have space for the saiga. PM me if interested. I think I have one extra 5rd magazine for it. It shoots and cycles standard 00, 9 pellet loads flawlessly, never tried skeet/trap loads. I know someone makes a finely adjustable gas-port plug for it that will allow you to dial-in and tune it for the load you may want to use. If I find the link for it, will post.

[9X19 125]

6 round mag max. No pistol grip. Brake okay. Fixed stock only.

Paul does the brake have to be welded?

[the_stranger 13]

. I know someone makes a finely adjustable gas-port plug for it that will allow you to dial-in and tune it for the load you may want to use. If I find the link for it, will post.

 

 

The MD Arms gas plugs are fantastic. You can shoot bird shot all day long once you get the right setting.

http://store.carolin...dsh-PLUG/Detail

[vladtepes 1,060]

Paul does the brake have to be welded?

 

no

[PK90 3,570]

Paul does the brake have to be welded?

no