Three immigrants with green cards sue for free heathcare

[71ragtopgoat 23]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0 ... en_ca.html

 

Jeff Diamant/The Star-Ledger

 

Three immigrants with green cards sued the state today, saying it is discriminating against them by removing them from state-subsidized health care due to their immigration status.

 

The lawsuit seeks to prevent the state Department of Human Services from instituting planned budget cuts that would remove the plaintiffs

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Remember when paying your own way was rule # 1 when coming to the USA.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

When you have a green card, you're documented... you're not an illegal. So why should they be denied services that we all get and that they pay for (I assume they pay their taxes)?

[71ragtopgoat 23]

When you have a green card, you're documented... you're not an illegal. So why should they be denied services that we all get and that they pay for (I assume they pay their taxes)?

Maybe because there not citizens and if they cant make it here without draining the taxpayer they should be sent home . It used to be a law you had to pay your own way. If being a cook does not pay enough ask for a raise or move on dont sponge off of us.I have enough to pay for without paying for his family to.

 

And there tax free .At his income with the wife and kids he even gets a little more from the govt then he paid come tax time. Via child credits and rebates.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

When you have a green card, you're documented... you're not an illegal. So why should they be denied services that we all get and that they pay for (I assume they pay their taxes)?

Maybe because there not citizens and if they cant make it here without draining the taxpayer they should be sent home . It used to be a law you had to pay your own way. If being a cook does not pay enough ask for a raise or move on dont sponge off of us.I have enough to pay for without paying for his family to.

 

And there tax free .At his income with the wife and kids he even gets a little more from the govt then he paid come tax time. Via child credits and rebates.

 

Whoa now. My family paid taxes while waiting on the lengthy citizenship process to be finished, during those 5 or so years, they should not get services they are paying for?

 

The issue here isn't even about being a citizen or not... it's about being a taxpayer. As for "paying your own way", that's a different argument entirely.

 

The biggest argument you can make against their suit is that they didn't meet the basic eligibility requirements even a normal citizen has to meet.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

No it's not we support our fellow citizens not the worlds citizens. And paying taxes does not entitle me you or anyone else to free everything we want and even need at times. That is what work is for.If your job does not pay enough for a good school for your kids find a better job or deal with the school you have.Same with health care. If my employer could pay me $2 hr and you pay the rest guess what he will do. We pay taxes for social things like defense ,Bridges,roads ect not for dental, health care or Twinkies and beer .

None of us are entitled to free health care is for kids and those unfortunates unable to provide for themselves do to disabilities and most of all American citizens.

[Guest]

Whoa now. My family paid taxes while waiting on the lengthy citizenship process to be finished, during those 5 or so years, they should not get services they are paying for?

 

 

unfortunately.. NO.. they are not citizens.. therefore should not be covered under rights granted to citizens.. but in all fairness they should probably not be paying taxes either..

[chefhunter34 1]

I think it has to be determined if they pay taxes or not. Many are paid under the table...off the books.

 

Joe Vitale needs to go also

 

Wait and see what Christie does, and what they give them just to go away. You know they will get something out of this.

 

:shock:

[theRU 33]

First we should make sure illegals dont get anything at all...then i'd worry about all these secondary issues of documented immigrants getting some kind of benefits.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Whoa now. My family paid taxes while waiting on the lengthy citizenship process to be finished, during those 5 or so years, they should not get services they are paying for?

 

 

unfortunately.. NO.. they are not citizens.. therefore should not be covered under rights granted to citizens.. but in all fairness they should probably not be paying taxes either..

 

They're taxpayers! You don't need to be a citizen of a country to pay taxes. If these folks are living here full time and own a house, they pay property taxes... are their children still not allowed to go to public school then?

[Urban Grunt 44]

Next you will be wanting to take guns off legal immigrants

[djg0770 481]

I'm torn on this issue. These individuals HAVE taken the proper means to citizenship, and I applaud them for that. However, why do they need assistance? If they are unable to pay their own way, why were they given admittance in the first place? These are not refugees - imo it should be a requirement that they are ready willing and able to provide for themselves and their children WITHOUT expecting a handout.

 

I like the point though that we should focus FIRST on removing illegals from free health care and other assistance programs, post haste, especially in this fiscal climate.

[Sigman 41]

Umm...healthcare should not be guaranteed to anyone, tax paying or not. I get healthcare through my company because it is a benefit that the company and I pay for. Where does it say in the constitution that the government will supply healthcare? Should they also supply a house? How about child care while you work?

 

This whole state is in a mess from all the programs we have to fund. Like it was already said, we need to get rid of the illegals first, then work on the other problems.

[tony357 386]

just because they pay taxes does not mean they should have health care bennies.. no one gave me health care bennies.. always had to either work for it or pay out of pocket.

 

the big problem with this state is all the childboard programs..

 

they are good on one hand but bad on another, for instance someone looking for full time coverage like this cook nothing wrong with him right now.. on another hand if they do not have the money and a medical emergency comes up their is some relief..

 

It is a tuff subject...

[bulpup 98]

This part of the immigration debate bothers me.

 

A documented immigrant living and working in the state of New Jersey should not have access to public services that are available to other residents of New Jersey?

 

He is legal and has the income level to show the need. Why would he be blocked? I can understand if the guy wanted to sue for leaf pickup in the fall, but for healthcare? Maybe we just deport him for not making enough money? Wow thats a great definition of the American Way.

 

Guys, He has a greencard and if he gets to the point where he makes enough to get taxed then he will be. I can imagine, after weighing all his options, he decided it is better to be legal and get the crappy state healthcare than to be illegal and have none. This is just the same kind of financial decision anyone would make with kids. This is a good person. Do we dislike good people too?

 

I have to agree with this, despite who said it; "These men and women work hard, play by the rules, and are on the path to citizenship that we have established and that they honor."

 

Lets worry about the illegals more.

[djg0770 481]

This part of the immigration debate bothers me.

 

A documented immigrant living and working in the state of New Jersey should not have access to public services that are available to other residents of New Jersey?

 

He is legal and has the income level to show the need. Why would he be blocked? I can understand if the guy wanted to sue for leaf pickup in the fall, but for healthcare? Maybe we just deport him for not making enough money? Wow thats a great definition of the American Way.

 

This is what the American Way has deteriorated to? People come here and expect that since THEY can't "make enough money" society should just pull them along?? Where is the drive to do it yourself? I bet these very same tools have plasma TV's and are driving around in high style cars. I'm sick of the entitlement lifestyle - and then people DEFENDING someone who is NOT a citizen (though here legally) as if they should get EVERY RIGHT - or more rights than a Citizen. It's disgusting. The handout should be the LAST resort, not the first. If they don't like it, send them back to their home country.

[bulpup 98]

 

This is what the American Way has deteriorated to? People come here and expect that since THEY can't "make enough money" society should just pull them along?? Where is the drive to do it yourself? I bet these very same tools have plasma TV's and are driving around in high style cars. I'm sick of the entitlement lifestyle - and then people DEFENDING someone who is NOT a citizen (though here legally) as if they should get EVERY RIGHT - or more rights than a Citizen. It's disgusting. The handout should be the LAST resort, not the first. If they don't like it, send them back to their home country.

 

Your broad strokes are painting FAR outside the issue presented. They have been here paying taxes since 1999, are on track to become citizens and have attained permanent resident status. There is nothing indicating they have a plasma TV or high style car.

 

The new laws are going to change their eligibility to family care for lack of another two years. They have been here for 11 years paying taxes in one form or another and actually working. How long do they have to be here? A full generation? How many on Familycare are not working?

 

Yes, I say that they are being discriminated against. There is no reason to knock their elligibilty off for a new arbitrary rule.

 

I prefer my America to adhere to the words inscribed at Ellis Island, within view of the Statue of Liberty. When we lose sight of what America is and call it "deterioration" then I believe we have lost our way.

 

And for those that say "if you can't make enough money to afford health care you should leave," consider this. If I could make more money in this economic climate I would in a heartbeat. I have been making $60,000 less per year than I had previously. Things are tough for everyone. Wouldn't it be great to think I could just opt in to a better paying job?

 

Familycare exists and he should be able to use it.

[djg0770 481]

I stand by my broad strokes - specifically "The handout should be the LAST resort, not the first."

 

My family went without health insurance for 3 months last year. Did you hear me bitching about it? My credit went in the toilet last year when I went without pay (while working every day) for what amounted to 3 months. What did I do about it? I got another f-ing JOB. That's what dedicated people do. They provide for their families at ALL costs, and when they have exhausted EVERY opportunity, then, and only then, do they even begin to consider "the dole".

 

I've seen the food stamp/welfare couples in Asbury Park with their hair done up daily, their nails done at a length where their hands are non-functional, their Coach bags, Dolce and Gabbana eyewear, gold everywhere, latest fashions, etc. while I struggled to scrape to pennies together as the "oppressive white man keeping them down".

 

I've worked with the guys who refuse to work overtime because the additional income will "foul up their status" in the Projects.

 

So y'all can just... as far as I am concerned.

 

My father came here and worked his ass off, has never, not one freakin day, collected unemployment. He struggled at menial jobs and managed to provide for himself and his family. Never a handout. Worked every weekend when I was a kid at whatever shit job he could find.

 

My maternal grandparents came here, my grandfather at 16 yrs old to escape serfdom in Poland, my grandmother was a domestic (today you call them "cleaning ladies") not once did either of them take any handout.

 

My family's first color TV was purchased in the 80s, it came with a voice activated remote control "son, put on channel 7", "son, turn it up"... I never understood as a young kid growing up why the Brady Bunch said "In Color" - it sure wasn't on my TV. I've known poverty, it ain't fun, but I can assure you, there are many many other ways besides public assistance.

 

As Reagan said - the scariest phrase in the English Language is "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help"

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Thats the thing most people dont get. We have been trained that this is an entitlement. People actually expect the govt to provide for them !!

This is America darn it. We reject or used to reject Govt interference in our lives. It's called freedom !! And if we allow this govt to "provide" it means another slice of our freedom is gone. Govt provided health care means the govt directs your health care !! Get it. This country will not survive if this is the mentality of our new immigrants and young people.

Lets make it real simple if I feed you I decide what your eating !!!

 

And the simple fact of the matter is being legal and being a citizen are two different things. Being legal you can still be deported for breaking the laws of this land being a citizen we cant. Being legal does not entitle you to reap public tax payer provided benefits (welfare,housing, or medical) that is a safety net for full 100 % citizens.Unemployment and SS are individual accounts so anyone can draw on them after paying into them.

I dont know the current laws so I'm a little dated. But years ago you had to have a sponsor to come here and you had to not be a draw on the system to stay for X amount of years. I think we need to get back to that. If for no other reason that self reliance is one of the core things this Country was founded on.

[bulpup 98]

Soo really, at the core of it is your dislike of Familycare. That is a different issue.

[Urban Grunt 44]

I've been in the USA for seven years and all i've done is pay pay pay and nobody(Gov/state) has offered me anything, wait i lie the government wanted to deport me if i didn't pay a fee by a due date.

 

I have heathcare for now but i've been given notice that i will be dropped when obama's public heathcare is up and running.

[djg0770 481]

Soo really, at the core of it is your dislike of Familycare.

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE. My dislike is the ENTITLEMENT system.

 

ENTITLED to health care

ENTITLED to a job

ENTITLED to a car

ENTITLED to speak your mind regardless of who or what it offends

ENTITLED to take someones money even though they are capable of making their own.

 

IMO - Entitled to F off. - only.

[Guest]

I've been in the USA for seven years and all i've done is pay pay pay and nobody(Gov/state) has offered me anything, wait i lie the government wanted to deport me if i didn't pay a fee by a due date.

 

I have heathcare for now but i've been given notice that i will be dropped when obama's public heathcare is up and running.

 

I have been in this country for 32 years.. since birth.. I worked my first job at about 12.. helping out on a farm in upstate PA during the summer.. after that I worked odd jobs EVERY SUMMER.. at about 17 I started to work in Ocean City on the boardwalk.. I worked morning till night... made every cent I could.. once out of high school.. I got another job.. and I have since been at my current job for about 11 years.. since 12.. I have LITERALLY worked as much as humanly possible.. If I could not get a good job.. I busted my ass doing hard manual labor.. for one summer I actually worked with this company that cleared trees for developments, I worked along side people who in retrospect were likely illegals.. as the job paid shit and most of them didn't speak English.. point being.. for more than half my life.. two decades.. I have worked.. I have NEVER taken a cent from the state.. and like the rest of you.. I PAY PAY PAY PAY.. I pay so some asshole in front of me at the grocery store can go through with 2+ carts FILLED with food with a kid hanging off each hip.. as I sit there counting out my hard earned cash.. she calmly pays with her state card that I pay to replenish.. she is calm relaxed and happy.. knowing her food, shelter, etc. are paid for.. well enough is enough already.. end the free ride.. STOP PUNISHING US FOR WORKING HARD.. STOP REWARDING OTHERS WHO DO NOT.. IT IS BULLSHIT..

[djg0770 481]

well enough is enough already.. end the free ride.. STOP PUNISHING US FOR WORKING HARD.. STOP REWARDING OTHERS WHO DO NOT.. IT IS bs..

 

DW - I could not have said it better.

[Guest]

Soo really, at the core of it is your dislike of Familycare.

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE. My dislike is the ENTITLEMENT system.

 

ENTITLED to health care

ENTITLED to a job

ENTITLED to a car

ENTITLED to speak your mind regardless of who or what it offends

ENTITLED to take someones money even though they are capable of making their own.

 

IMO - Entitled to F off. - only.

 

 

It is completely true.. I have heard time and time again from the left how EVERYTHING is a "right"... "oh no.. health care is a right" "people have a right to have a home" THEN two seconds later they want to strike down OUR 2a rights, which is actually a REAL right!!! sometimes the things people say are really ridiculous..

[bulpup 98]

Soo really, at the core of it is your dislike of Familycare.

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE. My dislike is the ENTITLEMENT system.

 

ENTITLED to health care

ENTITLED to a job

ENTITLED to a car

ENTITLED to speak your mind regardless of who or what it offends

ENTITLED to take someones money even though they are capable of making their own.

 

IMO - Entitled to F off. - only.

 

 

Jeez all the guy wants is to remain in a healthcare program for his children while he works for a living and waits for his citizenship.

Where did all the other stuff come from?

[Guest]

Soo really, at the core of it is your dislike of Familycare.

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE. My dislike is the ENTITLEMENT system.

 

ENTITLED to health care

ENTITLED to a job

ENTITLED to a car

ENTITLED to speak your mind regardless of who or what it offends

ENTITLED to take someones money even though they are capable of making their own.

 

IMO - Entitled to F off. - only.

 

 

Jeez all the guy wants is to remain in a healthcare program for his children while he works for a living and waits for his citizenship.

Where did all the other stuff come from?

 

because... he has no RIGHT to health care.. just as I have NO RIGHT to health care.. people go around assuming they are OWED stuff just simply by being alive in a certain country.. health care IS important.. but some people can't afford it.. it is NOT the governments job to pick up the slack.. such is hardship of life..

[djg0770 481]

Jeez all the guy wants is...

 

to stick the camel's nose under the tent...

 

The camel's nose is a metaphor for a situation where permitting some small undesirable situation will allow gradual and unavoidable worsening. A typical usage is this, from U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in 1958:

 

This bill and the foregoing remarks of the majority remind me of an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." If adopted, the legislation will mark the inception of aid, supervision, and ultimately control of education in this country by the federal authorities.[1]

 

According to Geoffrey Nunberg, the image entered the English language in the middle of the 19th century.[2] An early example is a fable printed in 1858 in which an Arab miller allows a camel to stick its nose into his bedroom, then other parts of its body, until the camel is entirely inside and refuses to leave.[3] Lydia Sigourney wrote another version, a widely reprinted poem for children, in which the camel enters a shop because the workman does not forbid it at any stage.[4]

 

The 1858 example above says, "The Arabs repeat a fable," and Sigourney says in a footnote, "To illustrate the danger of the first approach of evil habit, the Arabs have a proverb, "Beware of the camel's nose". However, Nunberg could not find an Arab source for the saying and suspected it was a Victorian invention.[2]

[bulpup 98]

Alright, well I am not going to go round and round on this especially when I agree with so much of what you all are saying.

 

And I want to be clear, I am not disagreeing with what you say, I just don't think it applies in this particular lawsuit.

 

The lawsuit is about discrimination -not a right or entitlement. I believe the lawsuit brought by these particular plaintiff's has some merit.

 

I'm done.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Alright, well I am not going to go round and round on this especially when I agree with so much of what you all are saying.

 

And I want to be clear, I am not disagreeing with what you say, I just don't think it applies in this particular lawsuit.

 

The lawsuit is about discrimination -not a right or entitlement. I believe the lawsuit brought by these particular plaintiff's has some merit.

 

I'm done.

Discrimination ??? From what ??? He can still get health care from his employer or he can get a better/second job and pay for it.

I have worked since I was 15 or 28 years now I've demolished driveways and swept up after Carpenters from the age of 15 to 18. Then at 18 I worked at UPS from 1 to 5 in the morning after that I would shape a Union Hiring hall every day after UPS at 6am .If I found work that day I got home around 6pm.

If I did not find work I went and pumped gas till whatever time the boss let me.

I never thought or would think of asking strangers to pay for anything of mine.

This is how it's done.I have no problem paying for this guys kids. But it just burns me up that he thinks I should pay for him .Whats his family more deserving then mine ???