Criminal Records & Firearms

[ChrisJM981 924]

Soooooo my girlfriend's friend and bf want to go shooting with us. She mentioned "Oh I don't know if he has guns cause she said something about him getting in trouble when he was younger..." So the red flag went up. I'm under the impression that felons are not allowed to even hold a firearm. I'm guessing that would include temporary transfer for use at a range? Is that restriction limited to a certain class of felony, does it apply to misdemeanors, and any other information a reputable source could tell me would be greatly appreciated.

[vjf915 456]

Honestly your best bet is to call the range you are going to. Last time I went to Ready Aim Fire, there was a sign on the door that basically stated anybody with a ***** record is not legally permitted to handle a firearm, and that the police come in regularly to check the licenses that the range holds. I dont remember if its felony or what, but if someone here cant provide a solid answer then just call the range.

[ChrisJM981 924]

Can any LE's help me out here? I'd rather know the legality of such from a LEO rather than a range employee. I can't see the range I'd go to as being particularly helpful.

[Maksim 1,504]

was it a misdemeanor or was it a crime?

[KpdPipes 388]

Can any LE's help me out here? I'd rather know the legality of such from a LEO rather than a range employee. I can't see the range I'd go to as being particularly helpful.

It all depends on WHAT he was convicted of. As long as it was not an "Indictable offense" (ie. Felony) then there is no prohibition from him shooting your firearm at the range...UNLESS it was a conviction for a Domestic Violence Assault, or he has an Active Restraining Order against him. You need to find out Specifically what's going on with him, and if he balks at it, then it's definitly a No-go. His privacy rights stop at the point where he is handling YOUR guns.

[ChrisJM981 924]

It all depends on WHAT he was convicted of. As long as it was not an "Indictable offense" (ie. Felony) then there is no prohibition from him shooting your firearm at the range...UNLESS it was a conviction for a Domestic Violence Assault, or he has an Active Restraining Order against him. You need to find out Specifically what's going on with him, and if he balks at it, then it's definitely a No-go. His privacy rights stop at the point where he is handling YOUR guns.

 

Thanks guys. It was a drug related offense as far as I know 10 years ago. I don't think the time matters. I asked my gf to get the details and she didn't get a response from her friend. I figured if I knew the restrictions I could present them to her and see if the request to go shooting goes away.

 

I saw this and was a bit confused to it's meaning:

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 Prerequisites for a permit to purchase handgun or a firearms purchaser

identification card

 

(a) A permit to purchase a handgun, or a firearm purchaser identification card, shall not be issued

to any person:

 

2), to any person who is confined for a mental disorder to a hospital, mental institution or

sanitarium, or to any person who is presently a habitual drunkard;

3. To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe

for him or her to handle firearms, to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder,

or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor

or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that he or she is no longer

suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere with or handicap him

or her in the handling of firearms; to any person who knowingly falsifies any information on the

application form for a handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card;

 

Would this person need to have proof from an inpatient/outpatient program stating they are no longer physically dependent on drugs if they were convicted of a possession charge? I'm under the impression a felony conviction is an automatic disqualification. Thanks again for your help on this. I'd really prefer to just tell them no, but I'd like to introduce as many people as possible to our sport as well as educate them on proper handling and safety rules.

[Guest Damagedworld]

I to am curious about this but I am pretty sure I know the answer.. I have a friend who battled a drug problem.. DID get a felony conviction a long time ago (different state but I doubt that matters).. so I do NOT allow him to handle my firearms under ANY circumstances.. the down side is he is a good friend who has his **** together now and would love to come out to the range for the day.. but I am assuming as a byproduct of his felony conviction that is NOT going to happen..

[Anselmo 87]

I am not a lawyer but my research on the topic indicates this:

 

In NJ, your friend can't possess a gun if he has been convicted of a crime. So, he can't shoot your gun in NJ. NJ simply says conviction of a "crime" is a prohibition to possession of a gun. The definition of "crime" is vague and not specific so I would err on the conservative side and consider any indictable offense a crime or as stated above, a domestic violence disorderly persons conviction. A lawyer may be able to argue that a crime needs to carry a 6 month or 1 year or more jail sentence but I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't take that stance without legal back up from an attorney. I'm currently working to expunge a conviction of mine that is 26 years old with 6 month suspended sentence. Until then I won't possess/shoot a gun in NJ. I go to PA to shoot.

 

In PA the offenses are enumerated in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6105(a). http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6105/persons-not-to-possess-use-manufacture-control-sell-or-transfer-firearms/

 

I would not consider any of the enumerated offenses to apply to your friend and the alcoholic/drug addict section would apply to someone in rehab or been deemed an addict/alcoholic. I don't believe there is an assumption that someone convicted of drug possession is a drug addict in PA. PA states you need 3 drunk driving convictions as a prohibition to possession of a gun. However, applicable to your friend and prohibiting him from possessing/shooting your gun in PA: (2) A person who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years.

 

So, a minor drug charge, your friend can shoot in PA but not NJ. A major drug charge, your friend can't shoot in NJ or PA. But, it is only my opinion, you need to be sure.

[KpdPipes 388]

I to am curious about this but I am pretty sure I know the answer.. I have a friend who battled a drug problem.. DID get a felony conviction a long time ago (different state but I doubt that matters).. so I do NOT allow him to handle my firearms under ANY circumstances.. the down side is he is a good friend who has his **** together now and would love to come out to the range for the day.. but I am assuming as a byproduct of his felony conviction that is NOT going to happen..

 

 

it doesnt there is a Federal prohibition for Felons handling firearms as wella s state Prohibitions. if you've been around the internet gun Foruums for any length of time you've no doubt heard of "Gunkid" AKA John Melvin Davis..one of the MOSE excerable individuals to ever turn on a PC..he is awaiting release from Federal prison right now because he was charged under the Federal prohibition for Felons handling Firearms.

 

(Google "gunkid" if you're interested, his stuff is ALMOST as hilarious as "Gecko45" the ORIGINAL "Mall Ninja".

[ChrisJM981 924]

it doesnt there is a Federal prohibition for Felons handling firearms as wella s state Prohibitions. if you've been around the internet gun Foruums for any length of time you've no doubt heard of "Gunkid" AKA John Melvin Davis..one of the MOSE excerable individuals to ever turn on a PC..he is awaiting release from Federal prison right now because he was charged under the Federal prohibition for Felons handling Firearms.

 

(Google "gunkid" if you're interested, his stuff is ALMOST as hilarious as "Gecko45" the ORIGINAL "Mall Ninja".

 

I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. Thanks for the help. I got confirmation it was a felony drug charge. That takes care of that.

 

Pipes would a misdemeanor assault in NY prohibit you from temporary transfer in NJ? I swear I don't associate with criminals! He's the only person I know with a record. I'm not friends with the felon.

[KpdPipes 388]

I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. Thanks for the help. I got confirmation it was a felony drug charge. That takes care of that.

 

Pipes would a misdemeanor assault in NY prohibit you from temporary transfer in NJ? I swear I don't associate with criminals! He's the only person I know with a record. I'm not friends with the felon.

 

As far the the Felony guy..it IS possible to get them expunged, especially if he has shown that he's grown up, and he can petition to have all of his rights restored if he was interested in doing so. Now, as to your question...do you mean "Temporary transfer" as in taking him to the range? My own OPINION is that it wouldn't... however, I'm just a Street Cop, NOT An attorney or prosecutor. Knowing how completely anti-gun some County Prosecutors and Chiefs are, it wouldnt surprise me to see someone make an issue out of that if, for some reason the circumstances ever arose that it would come out...not that I could even fathom what those circumstances might actually BE.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Are you guys sure about this?

Most of the laws i have read through don't say anything about possessing a firearm, just possessing a card and permits. And you can go rent a gun somewhere with out a FID card..How would they know if you were a felon or not if you didnt say anything?

 

Just on another note: People under 21 cant have handguns in NJ, yet i've seen parents out buying handguns for there teenagers. As long as the gun is legally owned by a registered FID holder with permits, i see no reason why you can't let some one shoot it at your discretion, although its your a** if something goes wrong.

 

Maybe federally it's illegal which could be deterrent enough, but i don't think state law, at least in NJ, is as clear as federal. I mean it's one thing to have the state police show up at the range, but the chances of the ATF showing up is much smaller.

[KpdPipes 388]

First, a good general overview of the "Felon in Possession" aspect.

 

http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/felony-firearm.html

 

A felony firearm charge can also be brought against convicted felon who is found in possession of a firearm, regardless of the intended or actual use of the weapon. It is considered illegal in every state for a convicted felon to be in possession of a firearm. The offense level for this type of felony firearm crime also varies by state but is greater when the gun is loaded, kept or used unlawfully. In this case, a felony firearm offense is a crime punishable by additional imprisonment, fines, and other penalties depending on the nature of the original offense and the circumstances of the felony firearm charge.

 

It is also a felony firearm crime to purchase, or otherwise handle, a firearm with the intent of furnishing it to a convicted felon. Not all states have a specific legal statute which makes this felony firearm offense a crime. This does not mean that a person who commits this felony firearm offense will not be tried for his/her actions. In states with specific statutes regarding this type of felony firearm offense, the accused may face up to 10 years in prison and up to $25,000 in punitive fines.

The Federal Law:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01117.htm

 

The following is the full text of an announcement that was sent by the Criminal Division to the United States Attorneys' Offices upon the passage of Title 18, United States Code, Section 922(g)(9) (the Lautenberg Amendment) in the fall of 1996. This provision amends the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 by banning the possession of firearms by individuals convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

GUN BAN FOR INDIVIDUALS CONVICTED OF A MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE -- 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9)

 

 

The 1968 Gun Control Act and subsequent amendments codified at 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq. prohibit anyone convicted of a felony and anyone subject to a domestic violence protective order from possessing a firearm. The intended effect of this new legislation is to extend the firearms ban to anyone convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence."

<The rest of the text is at the link..i dont want to clog this up with pages of Legalese.

 

And, In NJ, There is specific language in 2C:58 concerning issuance of FPID, and P2P's but IIRC there is a section in 2C:39 as well for "Prohibited persons", i just dont have the time at the moment to wade through it. I'll go through it tonight at work, and see if i can find it..if I'm wrong and it isnt there, I'll make sure to post that... that said, I KNOW we have charged Felons in possession, I just cant remember at the moment which charge it was.

[Anselmo 87]

One thing I don't understand, why does PA take the trouble to enumerate certain crimes that will prohibit gun possession if the Federal felony ban is already in place and is broader in scope?

 

Also, a Federal definition of a felony might not match a state's definition of felony. As I understand it, NJ doesn't use the term felony. NJ uses indictable offense.

 

The older NJ gun laws (2001) enumerated crimes. The newer revision (2006) states simply "crime".

[JackDaWack 2,895]

One thing I don't understand, why does PA take the trouble to enumerate certain crimes that will prohibit gun possession if the Federal felony ban is already in place and is broader in scope?

 

Also, a Federal definition of a felony might not match a state's definition of felony. As I understand it, NJ doesn't use the term felony. NJ uses indictable offense.

 

The older NJ gun laws (2001) enumerated crimes. The newer revision (2006) states simply "crime".

 

State police operate within there statutes. And federal within there's. If the state wanted to work off Federal Law they would have to call Federal authorities to prosecute. This way the state can do there own prosecution becuase they have there own laws in place.

 

However, i have yet to find any specific NJ statues that underline A felon in possession of a firearm and the consqences. All i have found and like most others is the statue regarding FID cards and that they will not be granted to a felon. Now that doesn't mean they don't exists. I have had a hard time finding all the laws in NJ, The AR statues alone are almost impossible to find unless someone tells you where to locate them.

 

The best way to explain this would be to compare it to California. There Marijuana is Medically legal, however federally it is still a class one controlled substance...making it top priority. If Cali wanted to prosecute anyone using medical Maryjay, they would have to call the DEA and have them do the prosecuting.

[KpdPipes 388]

State police operate within there statutes. And federal within there's. If the state wanted to work off Federal Law they would have to call Federal authorities to prosecute. This way the state can do there own prosecution becuase they have there own laws in place.

 

However, i have yet to find any specific NJ statues that underline A felon in possession of a firearm and the consqences. All i have found and like most others is the statue regarding FID cards and that they will not be granted to a felon. Now that doesn't mean they don't exists. I have had a hard time finding all the laws in NJ, The AR statues alone are almost impossible to find unless someone tells you where to locate them.

 

The best way to explain this would be to compare it to California. There Marijuana is Medically legal, however federally it is still a class one controlled substance...making it top priority. If Cali wanted to prosecute anyone using medical Maryjay, they would have to call the DEA and have them do the prosecuting.

 

patience, patience, grasshopper. 2C:39-7 "Certain Persons Not to Have Weapons" ( Statute )

 

2C:39-7. Certain persons not to have weapons.

 

6. Certain Persons Not to Have Weapons.

 

a. Except as provided in subsection b. of this section, any person, having been convicted in this State or elsewhere of the crime of aggravated assault, arson, burglary, escape, extortion, homicide, kidnapping, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, sexual assault, bias intimidation in violation of N.J.S.2C:16-1 or endangering the welfare of a child pursuant to N.J.S.2C:24-4, whether or not armed with or having in his possession any weapon enumerated in subsection r. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, or any person convicted of a crime pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-3, N.J.S.2C:39-4 or N.J.S.2C:39-9, or any person who has ever been committed for a mental disorder to any hospital, mental institution or sanitarium unless he possesses a certificate of a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed to practice in New Jersey or other satisfactory proof that he is no longer suffering from a mental disorder which interferes with or handicaps him in the handling of a firearm, or any person who has been convicted of other than a disorderly persons or petty disorderly persons offense for the unlawful use, possession or sale of a controlled dangerous substance as defined in N.J.S.2C:35-2 who purchases, owns, possesses or controls any of the said weapons is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

<Redacted for Brevity. Full text at link above>