is this normal?

[Destinydog 9]

So I had my wife go to my local PD to pick up the paperwork for me for two more permits for pistols I intended to purchase as the office is only open while I am at work. My town requires I sign all the papers in front of them so I needed to take a day off from work anyhow to drop them off and only wanted to use one vacation day and not two. Here is where things get questionable in my opinion. The clerk asked who my supervisor is at work, as I had to provide a work history to them for the past 10 years and submit a notarized form authorizing them to be able to contact my employer. So I warned my boss as she is super nice and would do anything for me. The next day she received a letter from my PD with a form to be filled out. My problem is she cannot legally fill out the form as it is the same one sent to my personal references. It asks questions about substance abuse, does this individual drink, is this individual capable of handling a firearm, etc. My friend submitted paperwork for an FID and 2 pistol permits the same time as me to a neighboring PD and didn’t have two do anything dealing with his employer.

 

My question is this normal? If not does it seem legal or have my rights been violated?

[mikeyboyeee 66]

So I had my wife go to my local PD to pick up the paperwork for me for two more permits for pistols I intended to purchase as the office is only open while I am at work. My town requires I sign all the papers in front of them so I needed to take a day off from work anyhow to drop them off and only wanted to use one vacation day and not two. Here is where things get questionable in my opinion. The clerk asked who my supervisor is at work, as I had to provide a work history to them for the past 10 years and submit a notarized form authorizing them to be able to contact my employer. So I warned my boss as she is super nice and would do anything for me. The next day she received a letter from my PD with a form to be filled out. My problem is she cannot legally fill out the form as it is the same one sent to my personal references. It asks questions about substance abuse, does this individual drink, is this individual capable of handling a firearm, etc. My friend submitted paperwork for an FID and 2 pistol permits the same time as me to a neighboring PD and didn’t have two do anything dealing with his employer.

 

My question is this normal? If not does it seem legal or have my rights been violated?

 

I surely is not. What town is this?

 

It is against the law.

[Destinydog 9]

Hopatcong, they claim it is a new law....

[joecs1 11]

+1!!!! That is not the law in NJ

[Destinydog 9]

Where could i find the exact law in writing?

[joecs1 11]

Have them give you the bill # to look up and site the law

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Contact the NJ State police about this - they're doing it wrong and it's violating your rights.

[joecs1 11]

That is just crazy! Maybe you dont want your employer to know you go target shooting! maybe he is a full left Liberal against guns! This could affect your employment! It is not your case, but it could be! I think they are jerking you around! HAVE THEM SUPPLY YOU WITH THE LAW STATUTE # SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES SAYING ITS A NEW LAW! Keep us posted and Im sorry you have to deal with this!

[Destinydog 9]

I figure i am pretty much screwed either way.

 

My employer refuesed to fill the form out, isntead they wrote a letter stating i am employed here and in good standings. I borught it to the clerk, which i used to live across the street from so she knows me well. She said this would probally work and if there were any issues a detective would contact me.

 

So now if i go there and complain are they going to heavily delay my permits? do i wait till i get my permits and then question them?

 

what to do , what to do...

 

I knew this was wrong from day one!!!

[mikeyboyeee 66]

CAll the state police and let them know. That's what you do.

 

They will put an end to it.

[Destinydog 9]

General state police number?

[LorenzoS 100]

You want the NJSP Firearm Investigation Unit, they are responsible for enforcing the correct process. http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/invest/firearms-invest-unit.html

 

I recall a regulation prohibiting local PDs from adding their own documentation requirements on top of the official State requirements. I cannot find it, I might be mistaken but perhaps someone here can point it out.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

There are 566 municipalities in NJ, so there are probably 566 different sets of rules for obtaining a FPID card or P2P's. There are, indeed, the one set of rules and forms put forward by the state - and by statute, that is all that is supposed to be used. However, most PD's hide behind the catch-all of the requirement to perform an investigation of the applicant and, unfortunately, how that is to be conducted is not spelled out. Departments tend to add all kinds of "requirements" that invade our privacy far more than is necessary. The courts tend to support them in this endeavor, as demonstrated by the ruling about when the imaginary "30 days" is supposed to start.

 

So I wouldn't hold my breath about this changing until there is a comprehensive reform of our firearms laws. Kudos to your employer - they did exactly what they are supposed to do - confirm employment, and nothing more. Anything more opens them up to liability. It sucks for you - and a call to the NJSP Firearms Unit may help - the letter to your employer is waaaay out of bounds, if nothing more maybe they'll quash that. Keep us informed as to your progress.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Destinydog 9]

I am going to send them an email in hopes of geting a response in writing that i can bring to my local PD, i will let you know my progress.

[mikelets456 78]

So I had my wife go to my local PD to pick up the paperwork for me for two more permits for pistols I intended to purchase as the office is only open while I am at work. My town requires I sign all the papers in front of them so I needed to take a day off from work anyhow to drop them off and only wanted to use one vacation day and not two. Here is where things get questionable in my opinion. The clerk asked who my supervisor is at work, as I had to provide a work history to them for the past 10 years and submit a notarized form authorizing them to be able to contact my employer. So I warned my boss as she is super nice and would do anything for me. The next day she received a letter from my PD with a form to be filled out. My problem is she cannot legally fill out the form as it is the same one sent to my personal references. It asks questions about substance abuse, does this individual drink, is this individual capable of handling a firearm, etc. My friend submitted paperwork for an FID and 2 pistol permits the same time as me to a neighboring PD and didn’t have two do anything dealing with his employer.

 

My question is this normal? If not does it seem legal or have my rights been violated?

 

Were you born in the USA? Were you previously hospitalized for a mental disorder? The reason I ask is a guy I work with was not born in the USA and had to do this as well as someone I know who was previously hospitalized for a mental disorder.However, I have not .... Still not legal IMHO though...

[Destinydog 9]

yup all similar questions....

[vladtepes 1,060]

I would honestly follow the advise here.. I have had great luck with talking to the NJSP firearms division.. they have (for whatever reason) always been really cool and helpful.. while I understand you may want something in writing.. the state police may even just call the department and explain the correct procedure to them?

[bry@n 195]

Ask for the Lt. He will set you straight. I have been given false info from others, the Lt. is the one that gets it straight.

[Destinydog 9]

I will call tommorow.

[CageFighter 236]

note to self...DO NOT move to Hopatcong!

[Downr@nge 22]

Any word from the NJSP Destinydog?

[StephanieSeven 70]

This state is so ef'ed.

[Destinydog 9]

I reached out for them and never heard back, i have been pretty busy during the times they are avaialbale, i will try to reach out for them this week. I am going to try and do some research and find the exact statute that states what should be expected so i am well prepared for this battle.

[Destinydog 9]

Update:

 

I called and spoke to a Sargent at the SP. HE didnt think it sounded out at all and said the detective from my local PD was probally just following the orders of the Chief and just to call and speak to the detective and tell him. He did ask me if i put one of my employers as my personal reference and I said no. He basically made it seem as if it was whatever the local Chief wanted as far as forms/formalities. SO in a nutshell the feeling i got was my local PD is doing somethign wrong however they are not going to adress it. I skimmed through the laws but didnt really find much on contacting an employer. So basically i guess im fucked until i move.

[223lover 9]

Actually, the OP's story is relaxed compared to years ago. I live in that town and at one time you had to fill out a form stating every job you ever had, every place you ever lived and if you missed one, and they found out, you were accused of falsifing the application,so it was nighty night for your pistol purchase permit. In addition to that, they sent a letter to my boss, who promptly threw it out it being I worked in Madison, and she lived in Paterson so she thought it was a plea for money from the PBA. She was anti gun so I had to lie to her and tell her I needed the permit to get possession of my grandfathers shotgun.She never would have fished it out of the garbage if she knew I was buying a handgun.

[Destinydog 9]

Um everything you describe still exists!!!!!!!! Love this town!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Actually, the OP's story is relaxed compared to years ago. I live in that town and at one time you had to fill out a form stating every job you ever had, every place you ever lived and if you missed one, and they found out, you were accused of falsifing the application,so it was nighty night for your pistol purchase permit. In addition to that, they sent a letter to my boss, who promptly threw it out it being I worked in Madison, and she lived in Paterson so she thought it was a plea for money from the PBA. She was anti gun so I had to lie to her and tell her I needed the permit to get possession of my grandfathers shotgun.She never would have fished it out of the garbage if she knew I was buying a handgun.

 

Under state law, what ever form your filling out which refers to previous or present employment is not considered part of the application, nor is a form required from your employer, unless you list it as a reference. If it were me i would have refused to fill out anything that isn't strictly part of the application. In other words, they can't deny you permits if your employer refused to comply, and for the exact reason you stated, they can be biased.

[Guest sh456mos]

Law is for everybody. Law can not break own hand. It is violation for country.

[Downr@nge 22]

Wow!!! Maybe you can have someone else go into the station with a copy of the Statute and let them know that ONLY STS33 and SP66 are valid forms for FOID ad PP.

 

I live in a township that asks me to sign a "Work Authorization" form that would give the PD power to asks my employers for any records on me they wanted. I actually called the NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit on them. The lady sounded like she was concerned and would get something done.

 

When I turn my forms in, I will turn in forms I downloaded from the NJSP site which are STS33 and SP66, THAT IS IT! If they say I have to sign the other form, I will decline and say I am unemployed (which is the truth). However, I have a STRONG feeling they will ask me to list my last employer. If they do that, I will pull the folded piece of paper out of my pocket that has the NJ Statute on it saying that I only have to fill out STS33 and SP66.

[Destinydog 9]

Well i went ahead and called and left a message for the clerk(who I used to live across the street from).. lets see what happens. I am also considering sending the chief an email.