hackensack legal loophole

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

So the acting officer in charge is a captain by title. The hold up on my permits is the supposed fact that state law says the cards need signed by the chief of police. The department and captain are concerned with the fact that.although the captain is the chief Leo of the municipality he is not a "chief of police" hence the legal roadblock mores than a loophole. A week ago the officer in charge said 1-2 weeks due to the "loophole" so now I called the captain and he said he wants to sign them and feels bad for the citizens. I kind of believe him but he can't jeopardize the already.frail image and perceived integrity of the dept, which when I look at the situation objectively I can understand. I also understand that he can't jeopardize his job especially since he is in a decent spot to become a chief. So although I understand his and the departments position its frustrating that an oversight in an outdated and ridiculous state policy is now restricting second.amendment rights further in this city. From.what I gathered there are also 10-20 other citizens in the same boat.as myself.

[djg0770 481]

Call the NJSP and tell them what is going on. They should be able to tell the Captain what he can/should do.

[Vlad G 345]

It seems to me that chief of police is a roll not a title:

 

40A:14-118. Police force; creation and establishment; regulation; members; chief of police; powers and duties

The governing body of any municipality, by ordinance, may create and establish, as an executive and enforcement function of municipal government, a police force, whether as a department or as a division, bureau or other agency thereof, and provide for the maintenance, regulation and control thereof. Any such ordinance shall, in a manner consistent with the form of government adopted by the municipality and with general law, provide for a line of authority relating to the police function and for the adoption and promulgation by the appropriate authority of rules and regulations for the government of the force and for the discipline of its members. The ordinance may provide for the appointment of a chief of police and such members, officers and personnel as shall be deemed necessary, the determination of their terms of office, the fixing of their compensation and the prescription of their powers, functions and duties, all as the governing body shall deem necessary for the effective government of the force. Any such ordinance, or rules and regulations, shall provide that the chief of police, if such position is established, shall be the head of the police force and that he shall be directly responsible to the appropriate authority for the efficiency and routine day to day operations thereof, and that he shall, pursuant to policies established by the appropriate authority:

 

a. Administer and enforce rules and regulations and special emergency directives for the disposition and discipline of the force and its officers and personnel;

 

b. Have, exercise, and discharge the functions, powers and duties of the force;

 

c. Prescribe the duties and assignments of all subordinates and other personnel;

 

d. Delegate such of his authority as he may deem necessary for the efficient operation of the force to be exercised under his direction and supervision; and

 

e. Report at least monthly to the appropriate authority in such form as shall be prescribed by such authority on the operation of the force during the preceding month, and make such other reports as may be requested by such authority.

 

I'd say if he has the job described above and he as appointed by the Mayor and town Council then his is the chief of police

[Springfield1911 22]

Maybe Zisa can still sign the FID cards from his jail cell?

[bry@n 195]

it's no biggy.

 

In my town, I have a Sgt that is OIC and he signs my PP with no issue.

[Bob B 103]

So the acting officer in charge is a captain by title. The hold up on my permits is the supposed fact that state law says the cards need signed by the chief of police. The department and captain are concerned with the fact that.although the captain is the chief Leo of the municipality he is not a "chief of police" hence the legal roadblock mores than a loophole. A week ago the officer in charge said 1-2 weeks due to the "loophole" so now I called the captain and he said he wants to sign them and feels bad for the citizens. I kind of believe him but he can't jeopardize the already.frail image and perceived integrity of the dept, which when I look at the situation objectively I can understand. I also understand that he can't jeopardize his job especially since he is in a decent spot to become a chief. So although I understand his and the departments position its frustrating that an oversight in an outdated and ridiculous state policy is now restricting second.amendment rights further in this city. From.what I gathered there are also 10-20 other citizens in the same boat.as myself.

 

Tell your Captain to check the NJSP Firearms Guidebook. I am told that it clearly states that if there is no Chief of Police, the highest ranking officer may approve FID's and PPP's. The NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit may be able to help you by calling him for you.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Thanks for the advice ill call njsp. Yea there reason they are apprehensive is because of all the past issues of corruption but maybe judo can help. He said he was meeting with either attorney.general or county prosecutor or some other to discuss a couple things he said he planned to discuss this as well but I will call njsp tomorrow see I.can get any one then call the captain on Wednesday to follow up on meeting

[theduke 2]

My town no longer has a chief of police and the top ranking officer has signed all my permits and signed my purchasers card a few years ago.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Cannot all you guys list the towns which the chief doesn't sign and who in fact does sign so I can go back to the capt if this isn't resolved soon

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

called njsp firearms investigation division, the lady(officer?) who answered seemed like she got the question alot and said to me that it need not be chied by title only the personal in charge. She said than that the captain can call the same number and speak with the lietenant in regards to it and can get some clarity. i then called capt and apparently he wouldnt be in till around 10:15 or so today. i then left a message on his voicemail and will call back when he is in and settled.

[jersey_emt 2]

Any updates?

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Tried calling three times left a voicemail explaining what njsp said to me left the number. Me and the capt secretary are almost first name.basis. will attempt contact again tomorrow.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

The captain forwarded the Info to the lawyers who are still "working on it"

 

Is there a way to get another chief to sign off or a state trooper lt or something.

 

My paperwork has been complete and sitting there for over two weeks

[matty 810]

The captain forwarded the Info to the lawyers who are still "working on it"

 

Is there a way to get another chief to sign off or a state trooper lt or something.

 

My paperwork has been complete and sitting there for over two weeks

 

Sounds bogus to me. get a lawyer

[djg0770 481]

Sounds bogus to me. get a lawyer

 

I think a call from a lawyer would certainly get the ball moving. This is absurd. Now your rights really are being violated as they have told you that the permit is just waiting for a signature. Your background check and mental health check are good. This would be a great case to use to overturn the previous case history on 30 day rulings.

[KpdPipes 388]

The captain forwarded the Info to the lawyers who are still "working on it"

 

Is there a way to get another chief to sign off or a state trooper lt or something.

 

My paperwork has been complete and sitting there for over two weeks

 

I forgot one thing// I BELIEVE the Bergen County Prosecutor's office is Administering Hackensack PD after the Debacle with Zisa. if that is the case, the County prosecutor, NOT THAT CAPTAIN is actually the CLEO, the Captain would just be an administrator. That may in fact be your holdup. Once the PO, or the state AG takes over a department, there are a lot of decisions that are taken out of their hands and kicked upstairs. Permits MAY be one of them.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

the county prosecutors office turned back over control of the dept to the capt and he is the acting officer in charge. since there was such corruption and doubt at the dept his apprehension to even toy with the language of the law so i can understand where he is coming from im considering calling the retained lawyers i have since i am a member of anjrpc see what they say.

[KpdPipes 388]

the county prosecutors office turned back over control of the dept to the capt and he is the acting officer in charge. since there was such corruption and doubt at the dept his apprehension to even toy with the language of the law so i can understand where he is coming from im considering calling the retained lawyers i have since i am a member of anjrpc see what they say.

Ok I wasnt sure if BCPO was still running the show or not over there. I Know that when a Dept IS taken over by a Higher agency, that whatever Officer whi is the Titular "guy in Charge" has to play Mother May I with just about everything.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Ok.called today left message if I can't get in touch tomorrow the next calls will be to njsp anjrpc retained attorneys AND any other groups nj 2as or nra poss?

[matty 810]

Ok I wasnt sure if BCPO was still running the show or not over there. I Know that when a Dept IS taken over by a Higher agency, that whatever Officer whi is the Titular "guy in Charge" has to play Mother May I with just about everything.

 

 

Bergen County Prosecutor's office is/was running the HPD? The same geniuses that somehow never knew there was any corruption there before? From the same town they work in? JHCTDOAC, the ongoing sleaze makes me want to puke

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

its a mess and my 2nd amendment rights others around 10-20 of em's rights too

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

it seems that there is a light at the end of the tunnel today got a letter saying your paperwork is ready but awaiting signature which it has been for three weeks (way to be on top of mail notifications) anyway from what i gathered secondhanded from the message is that it implied they would be ready today or monday most likely monday so i will be calling am monday morning to double check this account and hopefully a good time to pick up the cards.

[Dewhitewolf 8]

I had the same problem when I applied for my FID and first pistol permits back in 1999. Our police chief had been on medical leave (and continued to be on leave until he died in surgery). For almost two years, the dept had been without an acting chief. The officer who handled firearm applications told me that no documents could be issued, so I shouldn't bother calling to ask for updates.

 

I then called the state police, asking if I could have my papers done through them. They said that the next person in the chain of command could authorize it. They also gave me a number for the local police (Mt. Olive) to call, along with the name of the state officer I spoke with.

 

Going back to my local police to share that, I was told that there was no such thing and that I was lying. Giving the officer there the number to call, he told me that he was not my secretary and that if that state officer said that, I should get him to call the Mt. Olive PD and explain it.

 

Eventually I made a formal complaint against the police department with the mayor's office, naming every officer I dealt with, and every detail. Two days later, I got a call saying my documents were ready for pickup.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

wow am i glad i dont see it coming to that with me. seems to me the captain had a legitimate concern for his professionally security since he was already under a lens and had people loook into it and they did although it did prodding to get my documents to the waiting to be signed part lol. the message from friday along with a live call i put in today said tuesday en of the day the latest. i hope the officer is a man of his word because i am quite excited and cant stand to have my heart broken lol

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

mission accomplished it tooks three months and some hand holding but i picked up my permits today.

[KpdPipes 388]

wow am i glad i dont see it coming to that with me. seems to me the captain had a legitimate concern for his professionally security since he was already under a lens and had people loook into it and they did although it did prodding to get my documents to the waiting to be signed part lol. the message from friday along with a live call i put in today said tuesday en of the day the latest. i hope the officer is a man of his word because i am quite excited and cant stand to have my heart broken lol

 

He's also worried about INTERNAL problems from the Zisa people still there who will look to hang him on any technicality for having the Audacity to accept the job as Intermin Administrator for the Dept. Hackensack PD has some Issues..major ones... I know of a guy who was put on a walking post after he allowed someone to put a Political sign on his lawn supporting Zisa's opponent.

[matty 810]

He's also worried about INTERNAL problems from the Zisa people still there who will look to hang him on any technicality for having the Audacity to accept the job as Intermin Administrator for the Dept. Hackensack PD has some Issues..major ones... I know of a guy who was put on a walking post after he allowed someone to put a Political sign on his lawn supporting Zisa's opponent.

 

Kpd, was all this well known in the LEO community? I have little doubt there's lots of fire where the smoke is coming from, this is NJ, after all.

[KpdPipes 388]

Kpd, was all this well known in the LEO community? I have little doubt there's lots of fire where the smoke is coming from, this is NJ, after all.

 

There were always rumors, which werent surprising when you realiae the Chief, Mayor, and others all have the same last name. We had one of our guys lateral to HPD, he came back in less than 6 months with his tail between his legs begging to come home. The grass, and Money apparently isnt Always greener. Police Work is difficult enough without adding local politics and arse kissing into the mix.