NYC - SA Rifle?

[Dan 177]

So I took my friend who lives in Brooklyn shooting for his first time Friday. Both pistol and rifle. He shot my Taurus 92 9mm, Sig sp2340 .357sig, and my new AR. He did phenomenal with all 3 guns. He's now sold and wants to at least start with getting a pistol. He's pursuing those handgun permit agencies in NYC that you hire to walk you through their unconstitutional process.

 

Now for the rifle, he is interesting in getting an AR also, but NYC has it's own AWB that basically prevents you from owning or possessing most any SA rifle in the city limits. Does anyone know of an SA rifle that meets the criteria? I thought of the M1A, but they have it specifically listed as fitting the evil list.. I'm thinking b/c of the "barrel shroud". If not, I may recommend a Ruger Gunsight Scout.

 

I thought NJ was bad until I saw this. Take a look at #7, basically says that the Police Comissioner can simply dictate that a gun is banned based on their subjective opinion of what is "sporting". I'm sorry any law that hinges its authority on what any one person subjectively feels on the subject is just plain oligarchical. It's akin to passing a law that permits a person to rule by decree.

 

NYC AWB

 

(a) Any semiautomatic centerfire or rimfire rifle or semiautomatic shotgun which has one or more of the

 

following features:

 

1. Folding or telescoping stock or no stock.

 

2. Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

 

3. Bayonet mount.

 

4. Flash Suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor.

 

5. Barrel Shroud.

 

6. Grenade launcher.

 

7. Modifications of such features, or other features determined by rule of the Police Commissioner to

 

be particularly suitable for military and not sporting purposes. In addition, the Police Commissioner

 

may, in such rules, designate specific semiautomatic centerfire or rimfire rifles or semiautomatic

 

shotguns, identified by make, model and/or manufacturer’s name, as within the definition of assault

 

weapon, if the Police Commissioner determines that such weapons are particularly suitable for

 

military and not sporting purposes.

 

(b) Any shotguns with a revolving cylinder magazine.

 

© Any part, or combination of parts, designed or intended to readily convert a rifle or shotgun into an

 

assault weapon.

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

I believe a M1 carbine without the bayonet stud and a CA legal 10 rd magazine would be legal in NYC. I think Kahr makes a carbine in that configuration. Not a real rifle round but better than most pistol caliber carbines. There was some discussion of this when CMP came out with the M1 carbines.

[vjf915 456]

Wow, NYC seems to be even worse than NJ in this regard. I would suggest that he simply sticks with a bolt action rifle for now.

[Dan 177]

The barrel shroud being listed has be scratching my head. Like in the case of a M1 carbine, there is a front top foregrip, but it only covers half the barrel. I wonder if to be considered a "barrel shroud" it would have to cover the entire length of the barrel. My googling hasn't turned up anything, if there are people with legal SA's in NYC, they are probably keeping quiet to stay low. Add to that the #7 rule by decree, I may just recommend to him that he get a BA like the Gunsight.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Dan,

 

Why not try ar15.com under the hometown section for NY. Those guys deal with the restrictions all the time and can probably steer you & your buddy in the right direction. Just a thought.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Dan 177]

Dan,

 

Why not try ar15.com under the hometown section for NY. Those guys deal with the restrictions all the time and can probably steer you & your buddy in the right direction. Just a thought.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Good idea Bob. I sometimes forget there is a gun community outside of NJGF, since 9 out of 10 times our forum has the answers.

[Dan 177]

Guys at ar15.com say its a no go. Basically any SA rifle is banned. Not only that, they have a 5 round cap limit for ANY action type rifle. Even if you own 5 round magazines for the rifle, you have to somehow go through an approval process to prove you have the mags. Apparently they look up the gun on the internet to see what mag it comes with in stock form to base their decisions. One guy said there is only one gun shop in NYC that will even touch the NYPD approval process, and they charge $100 for that service.

 

At this rate, the Ruger Gunsight looks doable with 5 round mags, but he would have to jump through hoops to get this approval BS.

 

We thought the PRNJ was bad, apparently the PRNYC is 100x worse! I can't see how any of these laws would pass a constitutionality review.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I have heard of people buying M1 garands in NYC and having to get bayo lugs ground off. Not sure how they get around the 8 shot capacity.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yeah - no semi autos from what I heard from my friends in the city. Not sure about .22's though.

[vjf915 456]

The Ruger looks like a decent gun, but not for your friend. The mags for it are already pretty damn expensive, and then he has to go get them pinned to only accept 5 rounds, costing even more money. Then he must take a gamble as to whether he will even be approved or not. Or, just make it easy on him. Suggest the Remington 700. Wouldn't that eliminate the need for "approval" since they do not have actual magazines? It's also one of the most common sporting rifles in the world, which would make "approval" even easier. It's a cheaper rifle to begin with, and he doesn't have to pay for mags plus pinning.

[bulpup 98]

From the application

 

EXAMPLES OF ASSAULT WEAPONS THAT ARE BANNED

ALL AK-47s & All AR-15s

Armalite AR-180

Australian LIAIA & 223SAC

Beretta AR-70, BM-59

Beretta Light 50, 82AL

Calico M-900, M-100

Daewoo Max 1 & 2

DMAX C90, C100, C450

Dragunov Sniper Rifle

Encom, MK-1V

Fabrique FN/FAL, LAR, FNC

Fal Type 1-2-4

Famas Maas-223

Feather AT-9 & AT-22

Federal Eng. Corp XC 220,450, 900 A.C.

Franchi Law Spas 12

Goncz High Tech Carbine

Heckler & Koch 91, 93, 94

Israeli – All UZIs

Iver Johnson PM 30P

Norinco NMD86 Sniper Rifle

Polytech Ind. M-14s

PSG-1 rifles G3, SA

Ruger Mini 14/5F

SIG 57 AMT & PE-57, BM-59

SIG 550, 551 S.P.

Springfield BM-59, SAR 48&58 &3, M-1A

Sterling MK-6

Steyr Daimler Pusch AUG-SA

Valmet Corp. M-76, 78 SA

Weaver Arms Corp. Nighthawk

 

Any questions regarding the Assault Weapons Law should be directed to 718-520-9300.

[Dan 177]

Okay so if there is a 5 round capacity, why not go with a Remington 700? Wouldn't that eliminate the need for "approval" since they do not have actual magazines? It's also one of the most common sporting rifles in the world.

 

Was trying to get him some options for a tacticool carbine length BA with detachable mags.

[Dan 177]

From the application

 

EXAMPLES OF ASSAULT WEAPONS THAT ARE BANNED

ALL AK-47s & All AR-15sArmalite AR-180

Australian LIAIA & 223SAC

Beretta AR-70, BM-59

Beretta Light 50, 82AL

Calico M-900, M-100

Daewoo Max 1 & 2

DMAX C90, C100, C450

Dragunov Sniper Rifle

Encom, MK-1V

Fabrique FN/FAL, LAR, FNC

Fal Type 1-2-4

Famas Maas-223

Feather AT-9 & AT-22

Federal Eng. Corp XC 220,450, 900 A.C.

Franchi Law Spas 12

Goncz High Tech Carbine

Heckler & Koch 91, 93, 94

Israeli – All UZIs

Iver Johnson PM 30P

Norinco NMD86 Sniper Rifle

Polytech Ind. M-14s

PSG-1 rifles G3, SA

Ruger Mini 14/5F

SIG 57 AMT & PE-57, BM-59

SIG 550, 551 S.P.

Springfield BM-59, SAR 48&58 &3, M-1A

Sterling MK-6

Steyr Daimler Pusch AUG-SA

Valmet Corp. M-76, 78 SA

Weaver Arms Corp. Nighthawk

 

Saw that, NJ AWB has a similar list, but we have the ruling on the "Evil feature" game. I thought NYC was the same, but apparently not.

[n4p226r 105]

Sig 556 isn't on that list

[Dan 177]

Sig 556 isn't on that list

 

I suppose if you remove the pistol grip, and "barrel shroud" aka foregrip, and use 5 round mags... and go through the approval process, would be doable. Pretty much not worth it at this point.

[vjf915 456]

Was trying to get him some options for a tacticool carbine length BA with detachable mags.

You can get the 700 with a 20' barrel, a little less than 4 inches longer than the Ruger. Don't get me wrong, the Ruger is a nice looking gun. I have looked into it before, and it seems to perform well too. I just think that at this point in your friends life, where he lives, he might be better staying away from detachable mags. Just a suggestion. I wish you and your buddy luck in finding something that works for him.

[papercutninja 24]

Hmm, and here i thought it was crazy for moving FROM NYC to NJ for BETTER gun laws. I never bothered applying in NYC because of the sheer initial output of funds JUST to apply. Those costs are actually on par with joining a private gun club/range, if not more!

[Dan 177]

Yup, its a huge scam over there. Crazy fees, and even more crazy rules. With the pistol permit, they actually outline that you can only bring it to and from a specific range and your home. Not any range... a specific one , in which you have to be a member.

 

Basically NYC, guns are illegal. They keep up this farce of a licensing/permit/registration system so they can say they don't outright ban guns.

 

As for rifles. He wanted something AR looking tacticool. Not many options when it comes to BA's, esp without detachable mags. I'm just going to recommend to him a pistol and shotgun.

[n4p226r 105]

What about detachable mags on a bolt action?

 

That opens up the Remington 700 usr.

 

To go really tactical there is the remington msr

[bulpup 98]

With the pistol permit, they actually outline that you can only bring it to and from a specific range and your home. Not any range... a specific one , in which you have to be a member.

 

Basically NYC, guns are illegal. They keep up this farce of a licensing/permit/registration system so they can say they don't outright ban guns.

 

This isn't true anymore. That went away back in about 2000 when they merged the premise permit with the target permit.

In reality you really don't need a license firm to help you through the process.

Quite honestly I think the money I spent on one of those firms was wasted. All NYC really needs, and I am serious, is a group like this one that can advise on the process. The firms are banking on you thinking you will never get a permit.

 

I think the biggest differences you will see between NYC and NJ are that NYC is a "legit" license provider - meaning there is no one making up rules as they go along. Therefore any one person having an issue will be the same for everyone.

The fees are pretty expensive.

There is an interview.

They have to actually see your weapon and take down its serial number.

 

If you can afford the license fee you shouldn't be afraid of applying.

[Ray 0]

He can own a mini 14 with a small mag....no ar's or any variants....garands are ok with bayonet lug removed or"Covered" and he can buy adapted mags for it at rosebank gun shop in staten island near the bridge...

[autoxnyc 4]

I'm surprised after McDonald vs Chicago there's no lawsuit against NYC. Seems like an easy win.

[Dan 177]

This isn't true anymore. That went away back in about 2000 when they merged the premise permit with the target permit.

In reality you really don't need a license firm to help you through the process.

Quite honestly I think the money I spent on one of those firms was wasted. All NYC really needs, and I am serious, is a group like this one that can advise on the process. The firms are banking on you thinking you will never get a permit.

 

I think the biggest differences you will see between NYC and NJ are that NYC is a "legit" license provider - meaning there is no one making up rules as they go along. Therefore any one person having an issue will be the same for everyone.

The fees are pretty expensive.

There is an interview.

They have to actually see your weapon and take down its serial number.

 

If you can afford the license fee you shouldn't be afraid of applying.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Lots of old/new info out there makes it confusing. I'll let him know he doesn't need the licensing firm. I think he found one that combines the licensing process "help" with the range 1 year membership. So that may be a good deal for him as he wants to join a range as well.

 

He can own a mini 14 with a small mag....no ar's or any variants....garands are ok with bayonet lug removed or"Covered" and he can buy adapted mags for it at rosebank gun shop in staten island near the bridge...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Mini 14 have a "barrel shroud". I also thought the M1 Garand has one as well. I'm confused over what they consider a barrel shroud or not.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I'm surprised after McDonald vs Chicago there's no lawsuit against NYC. Seems like an easy win.

 

There is one regarding the fees.

[autoxnyc 4]

There is one regarding the fees.

 

I read about that one here about a month ago. But why go after the fees, they should throw out that ridiculous process and ban list. In order to get a NYC permit you'll have to take off several days from work to go in for interviews/finger printing/inspection, and get a letter from your employer, also consent to searches by the PD at any time they wish. That's just crazy.

[Aleshka 0]

If you grind off the bayo lugs on SKS and buy a detachable 5rd mag it may work I guess...

[bulpup 98]

I read about that one here about a month ago. But why go after the fees, they should throw out that ridiculous process and ban list. In order to get a NYC permit you'll have to take off several days from work to go in for interviews/finger printing/inspection, and get a letter from your employer, also consent to searches by the PD at any time they wish. That's just crazy.

 

 

License division is open until 8pm on Mondays.

 

You do not need a letter from your employer unless you are looking to carry for a business. The applicant may be asked to prove they are "gainfully employeed," but you can use w2's and pay stubs.

 

The error is that there is one application and it is also used for those applying for a carry permit which has lots of questions about your employment. For a premise permit it does not apply.

 

What do you refer to when you say that you "consent to searches when ever they wish?"

 

The thing about NYPD license division is a good chunk of the laws are written clearly on the application and you have to sign documents stating that you have read and are familiar with the laws. There are a lot and many are different from NJ but at least you can actually get the information, not like some states I know. When I went for my interview they handed me a strip of paper outlining "use of deadly physical force."

Never saw any of that in NJ, but then again NJ likes to either make it all up or leave it so vague that LEO's are so unsure they have to arrest just so a judge can decide.

 

I had zero issues with the police regarding my handgun when I lived in NYC and I found the people at 1 Police Plaza very helpful. They actually have full time employees staffing the place.