4redz 2 Posted April 27, 2011 OK, so it's not a NJ gun law question. It's a PA gun law question. I am in the process of buying a second home in PA. It is truly a second home and I have no intention of giving up NJ as my primary residency or my NJ Drivers License. Too much tied to home. I know I can't have two DLs from differtn states, but I don't know if I can have a PA State ID card: (a) without surrendering my NJ DL, and (b) if the PA ID is acceptable to purchase a handgun. (PS anything I would purchase in PA will be standard capacity, very likely stay in PA and be 100% NJ legal anyway.) I could just go through the purchase permit process again, but this seem like a reasonable alternative. Anyone with experience or knowledge? Thanks in advance- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted April 27, 2011 why not check the PA gun forum. Prob be more help since it's all related to PA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halbautomatisch 60 Posted April 27, 2011 My understanding of the law is that if you can prove you have a PA residence (government document such as a tax bill) you can buy anything that is legal in PA as a PA part time resident while you are a PA resident (not sure about class 3 though). You can use your NJ DL and your PA proof of residency to make your purchases. You should then be able to bring any legally purchased firearms, that are not AW's in NJ, back to NJ without further paperwork. Be aware that a lot of PA dealers are not familiar with this process and may refuse to do it. Getting a PA county ID (or something equivalent) would probably reduce that problem. Federal law requires a government issued photo ID to buy firearms. You should probably consult with a lawyer to be sure before you do any of this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted April 27, 2011 i looked into this before. PA has a non-driver resident ID, just like NJ. You have to go to their DMV and present proof of residence. If i remember, a lease or property tax papers plus 2 major bills with your name and address (credit card and utility bill?) http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverLicensePhotoIDCenter/obtainingPhotoID.shtml Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted April 27, 2011 we already have a house in Milford, PA. the house is in my parents name and so are the utility bills. im SOL with that idea. cell phone bills do not count as proof. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted April 27, 2011 we already have a house in Milford, PA. the house is in my parents name and so are the utility bills. im SOL with that idea. cell phone bills do not count as proof. buy one of those lease agreement forms at staples, have your parents fill it out, and get a cable or satellite tv subscription. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4redz 2 Posted April 27, 2011 PA definately has a non driver photo ID and the requirements are as Tommy3rd said. I will also have actual tax & utility bills in my name to demostrate residency once I close on the house. (the good news and the bad news I guess) My concern was that the PA DMV may not issue the PA ID if I have a valid NJ DL (my thought was along the lines of not having a DL from more than one state). I will search out a PA forum and also call PA DMV during business hours to find out about keeping my NJ DL with a PA ID. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
71ragtopgoat 23 Posted April 27, 2011 Wow that is a great idea. I own a home in PA for 20 years and now live in the peoples republic the last 5 years. I would be very intrested to see if this is legal. Will they issue an ID knowing you have an NJ DL? And also if you can use it to purchase a firearm without NJ's hoops to jump through legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4redz 2 Posted April 27, 2011 I confirmed today that I would have to surrender my NJ DL in order to get a PA ID. Oh well. Not an option. Thanks for the replies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halbautomatisch 60 Posted April 28, 2011 You can still make purchases with your NJ DL and a copy of a PA GOVERNMENT issued document, such as a tax bill. As I said above, a lot of dealers may not want to do it, but some know the law and will do it. I was told this by a dealer at a gun show in PA, you're just going to have to ask around and see who is willing to do it. You might want to see if the counties in PA issue IDs like they do in NJ, it might be another avenue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted April 28, 2011 I confirmed today that I would have to surrender my NJ DL in order to get a PA ID. Oh well. Not an option. Thanks for the replies. are you sure you told them you wanted a non-driver resident ID? because i wonder how people who own multiple homes in different states prove residence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4redz 2 Posted April 28, 2011 On the ID application form it says you must surrender any out of state ID or DLs in order to receive aPA ID. Clear as a bell. Confirmed with PA DOT. I just thought that would be an easier way to purchase another handgun that I would keep in my PA residence. No big deal, I will just purchase in NJ, in accordance w/ NJ rules. Alternatively, I may try to find a place that will sell me a firearm with my NJ FID and a utility/tax bill from PA. Or, third option, I can just bring a gun to PA for when I'm there. Best- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halbautomatisch 60 Posted April 28, 2011 Here's a starting point for you: Zeller's Sporting Goods 500 George st Troop, PA 18572 I don't have a phone # and have never been to his store but he does a lot of gun shows in PA. He will take a NJ DL with proper proof of PA part time residency. You can then buy anything a PA resident can buy (again not sure about class 3). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4redz 2 Posted April 28, 2011 much appreciated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted April 28, 2011 On the ID application form it says you must surrender any out of state ID or DLs in order to receive aPA ID. Clear as a bell. Confirmed with PA DOT. I just thought that would be an easier way to purchase another handgun that I would keep in my PA residence. No big deal, I will just purchase in NJ, in accordance w/ NJ rules. Alternatively, I may try to find a place that will sell me a firearm with my NJ FID and a utility/tax bill from PA. Or, third option, I can just bring a gun to PA for when I'm there. Best- I see it on there, but I gotta be honest...this makes no sense to me. How many people have property in both states...it makes sense to want an ID for both. I understand only allowing one DL, but you should be able to get as many picture ID's as you have addresses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted April 28, 2011 I see it on there, but I gotta be honest...this makes no sense to me. How many people have property in both states...it makes sense to want an ID for both. I understand only allowing one DL, but you should be able to get as many picture ID's as you have addresses. I wonder if they really mean a one to one swap. if you get a DL and have another state DL you have to turn it in. if it's a non-driver ID, you also turn in a non-driver ID if you have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4redz 2 Posted April 29, 2011 per PennDOT you cannot have a DL or ID from another state. Gun purchases aside, I'll be paying the same Taxes / Rent whatever as a resident, but have to pay non resident hunting/fishing fees because I can't get a PA ID without surrendering my NJ DL. Ain't necessarily fair, but from all I read...it is what it is. Makes no sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted April 29, 2011 I wonder if they really mean a one to one swap. if you get a DL and have another state DL you have to turn it in. if it's a non-driver ID, you also turn in a non-driver ID if you have one. I have 3 driver's licenses in PA. 1 NJ and 2 PA. You don't turn in licenses in PA, they hole punch your expiration date and give them back to you. They told me to keep my old PA license "as a backup." Not sure what that means, I'm assuming it's worthless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted April 29, 2011 I have 3 driver's licenses in PA. 1 NJ and 2 PA. You don't turn in licenses in PA, they hole punch your expiration date and give them back to you. They told me to keep my old PA license "as a backup." Not sure what that means, I'm assuming it's worthless. I'm pretty sure that the punched whole is "PA universal" for VOID. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted March 19, 2013 4REDZ, Were you ever able to purchase firearms in PA with your PA tax/utility bills in pa. I am also a PA homeowner and I'm trying to figure this out myself. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted March 19, 2013 Why don't you guys just get you're pa licenses? It would work the same as your nj license you would just be able to do all the cool stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted March 19, 2013 Yeah I don't understand why people would want to keep NJ as their primary residence... Unless you have in state tuition in NJ or have a gov't job that has a residency requirement there's no reason to be a card carrying member of this state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
71ragtopgoat 23 Posted March 19, 2013 Yeah I don't understand why people would want to keep NJ as their primary residence... Unless you have in state tuition in NJ or have a gov't job that has a residency requirement there's no reason to be a card carrying member of this state. Because we live here. And to own firearms in NJ you must be a resident. In PA they honor non res CCW's . So you can posses in both states as a Jersey res not the other way around.What we are trying to find out is if there is a lawful way to buy a pistol in PA in order to avoid NJ's massive red tape. Example. I just got my permits Friday 3/15/13 I had to wait 35 days for it. Now a background check was done before it was issued to me. Then the pistol I wanted was only in stock at a store in NJ an hour and forty five minuets from my house. The dealer would not ship it so I had to go there. I handed over my one hour old permit and was told to they would call when the second background check cleared in 8-10 days. That second check takes a PA dealer roughly a half hour. Thats why.LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 19, 2013 i looked into this before. PA has a non-driver resident ID, just like NJ. You have to go to their DMV and present proof of residence. If i remember, a lease or property tax papers plus 2 major bills with your name and address (credit card and utility bill?) http://www.dmv.state...ngPhotoID.shtml or if you're living with someone, but not paying rent or any of the bills, then bring them witrh you, and they need to bring the bills in ther name, and a photo id. yes, i've been looking into it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Underdog 1,593 Posted March 19, 2013 Interesting thread... OK. I own a home in PA with my wife. Everything is in her name, though, bills,etc.. I guess I could transfer stuff into my name. Can I apply for a non-driver's license identification card? If so, could I do it by bring tax bill, utilities bill, etc. and marriage license, and could I do it at any PA DMV. Would that ID be enough for a PA FFL to sella handgun to me? If I did this, would it allow me to purchase a handgun when I am in PA? Would I be able to own PA acceptable firearms... AK47, etc. as long as they were kept in PA? And, could I bring NJ legal firearms to NJ and so forth? If I bought a pistol in Pa, could I bring it to NJ, as long as I had all legal PA documentation? Would that be the same as moving into NJ and not having to register, etc.? And, could I get a PA CCW for when I am in PA? Would it have reciprocity with Florida and others as being issued by the state of my residence. I was under the impression when I looked into this once before that you have to declare ONE state as your main residence. And, all applicable gun laws of that state would need to be followed. Hence, I would not be able to buy a handgun out-of-state, unless transferred to an NJ FFL, even though I might be a part-time resident of that other state. Also, I would only be allowed to possess firearms that are legal in my main state of residence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrappy 0 Posted March 20, 2013 I looked into this recently as I was planning on buying a second house in the Poconos. My understanding was that you had to turn in your NJ license as well. And in order to buy a gun in PA, you will need a PA license. The good news is that you can bring your Jersey legal guns to PA and make them Jersey illegal.........so long as you keep them in PA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted March 20, 2013 Interesting read from a PA perspective. I own a home in PA for 12 years now and even if you use it on weekends you're considered a resident. I would need to do more (research), So you should be able to buy firearms and keep them in the PA home. Finding a dealer who knows this may be challenging. http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/136300-pa-homeowner-but-nj-resident-ltcf-transport.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted March 20, 2013 Because we live here. And to own firearms in NJ you must be a resident. In PA they honor non res CCW's . Probably not for much longer... So you can posses in both states as a Jersey res not the other way around. Makes sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted March 20, 2013 Read Example 2. 27 CFR § 478.11 State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual’s State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition: Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip. Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y. Might have to find a friendly Pa FFL that knows about this dual-residency allowance but it is legal. Also, if you buy a firearm in PA, don't take it back to NJ unless you are permanently moving back to NJ or risk a possible Federal violation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 20, 2013 This has been brought up over and over. Ace is right on. If you have a home in more than one state, you are a resident of that state while you are staying there for ATF purposes, even if it is only one day per year. You do not need a PA driver's license to purchase guns (handguns or guns not legal in NJ) as a PA resident in PA. However, the pool of PA FFLs that will be willing to deal with you without a PA DL as a PA purchase will be smaller, because many won't want to bother. Especially when they find out you are from jersey. Some of them will assume you are up to something. That being said, there are plenty that will deal with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites