echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Hello Everyone I was interested in getting the Saiga-M Series 7.62x39 Hunting Rifle. Base on everything that I read it looks like it should be legal here in NJ. I am correct or am I wrong? It does not have a flash suppressor and only 10 round mag. I was pretty sure that the Zastava Pap was legal but two stores have told me otherwise. One of them said they use to carry it and ATF came in and told them they can't. So now they don't even sell anything remotely looks and a Saiga or anything like that. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pew Pew Plates 358 Posted May 2, 2011 ATF has nothing to do with NJ state laws. They enforce federal laws. Sounds like the gunshops guys just came up with an excuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted May 2, 2011 What is it you're looking to do slowpokie? If your local gunshop doesn't carry the rifle, and believes it to be illegal... then why push the issue? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted May 2, 2011 If you shoot at Brick Armory, see if they have any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted May 2, 2011 Hello Everyone I was interested in getting the Saiga-M Series 7.62x39 Hunting Rifle. Base on everything that I read it looks like it should be legal here in NJ. I am correct or am I wrong? It does not have a flash suppressor and only 10 round mag. I was pretty sure that the Zastava Pap was legal but two stores have told me otherwise. One of them said they use to carry it and ATF came in and told them they can't. So now they don't even sell anything remotely looks and a Saiga or anything like that. Thanks Shore Shot had one on their wl for sale last week. Give them a call. By the way, that store was bullshitting you about the ATF. There are no Federal laws against the PAP, only stupid Jersey laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted May 2, 2011 Which stores told you that? Just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 What is it you're looking to do slowpokie? If your local gunshop doesn't carry the rifle, and believes it to be illegal... then why push the issue? The reason that I wanted to know because I am getting mixed information. Both Brick and Shoreshot said that they are legal to have. So I am a bit confuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 ATF has nothing to do with NJ state laws. They enforce federal laws. Sounds like the gunshops guys just came up with an excuse. I am sorry I misspoke. I meant to say NJ State Police. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Shore Shot had one on their wl for sale last week. Give them a call. By the way, that store was bullshitting you about the ATF. There are no Federal laws against the PAP, only stupid Jersey laws. I was at ShoreShot over the weekend and they did have two of them on the wall. It was the converted and the standard. But the one that I was looking for is the M series. I really hate this State more and more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Which stores told you that? Just curious. This was at Cheyene Mountain Outfitters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted May 2, 2011 1) Is Saiga M series hunting rifle banned by name? yes - it is illegal and you may not have.. no - proceed to question 2 Algimec AGM1 typeAny shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12" Armalite AR-180 type Australian Automatic Arms SAR Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms Bushmaster Assault Rifle Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900 CETME G3 Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types Demro TAC-1 carbine type Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types FAMAS MAS223 types FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns G3SA type Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1 Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms M1 carbine type M14S type MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms PJK M-68 carbine type Plainfield Machine Company Carbine Ruger K-Mini-14/5 F and Mini-14/5 RF SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types SKS with detachable magazine type Spectre Auto carbine type Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun Uzi type semi-automatic firearms Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms Weaver Arm Nighthawk; 2) Is the gun substantially identical as defined by law? yes - it is illegal and you may not have no - gun is legal and you may have.. 2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in paragraph 1 above. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm. The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A bayonet mount; (4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (5) A grenade launcher; gun may not have magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted May 2, 2011 This was at Cheyene Mountain Outfitters. I don't want to put words in their mouths., but... I suspect this is about the problem from a year or so ago. There is a company called IO that was making a gun called the AK. This evidently was too close to the statute banning Avtomat Kalishnikov type rifles. All Gun Dealers in the state received a letter stating that this gun was illegal and that they needed to be recalled. Cheyenne Mountain has become "gun shy". Since then, I believe the gun has been renamed so as not to run afoul of stupid laws like ours. Both Brck Armory and Shore Shot carry AK style rifles. I prefer to deal with the folks at Shore Shot, but yuo could give them both a call and talk to them about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echoreply 0 Posted May 2, 2011 Base on what Vlad wrote. Both the Zastava PAP and Saiga M should be legal to own. I might just have to pull the trigger and get one. Thanks everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted May 2, 2011 Base on what Vlad wrote. Both the Zastava PAP and Saiga M should be legal to own. I might just have to pull the trigger and get one. Thanks everyone. Saiga > imo.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
almiz111 26 Posted May 2, 2011 I got the same crappy story from Cheyenne months ago. They had that problem and now just don't want to be bothered. That's their loss of sales $$$$$$$$$. Shore Shot got my bucks. Vlad, you are to be commended. You are THE MAN, THE PROFESSOR. This question comes up like waves on the ocean and you calmly give a quality answer every time. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McMaster 7 Posted May 2, 2011 I thoroughly dislike Cheyenne Mountain Outfitters! I bought a bunch of pistols there because their selection is pretty good. BUT some of the people working there are Rude, know-it-all, tards. Especially that dude Rodney with the hearing aid! I hate that guy. What a F^*K Face! I can give you a number of stories where I was misinformed, screwed over and had arguments with people there. They think they are God’s gift to the NJ gun purchaser. They Su^k. Good selection but… Su^K. I don't buy from them anymore. If you are looking for good customer service and valid information to some of your NJ firearm questions… steer clear from Cheyenne Mountain Outfitters on Rt. 130 in Robbinsville! The pits… straight up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted May 2, 2011 CMO is actually the MAIN gun store I go to. I deal with Omar all the time, he's a great guy. I also haven't ever had any problems with the rest of the staff, except that freckled guy with the dark red hair can be a little....impersonal sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted May 2, 2011 Kalsnikov and vjf915, Sorry about your experience with Rodney. I know him personally and have the opposite opinion of him. Perhaps you caught him on a bad day or you were having a bad day. He is the more knowledgeable of NJ gun laws than most. Don't give up on him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golani 1 Posted May 2, 2011 I actually got a Saiga 7.62X39 a while back for a friend who was going to get his NJ purchase card but does not look like he is going to get the card. So I have a brand new Saiga with three magazines (10 round), a carrying case, 1000 rounds of ammo and eyes and ears, everything brand new still in the original packaging. Might have to sell it all now, anyone out there interested? Will have to calculate the total cost but should be around $800 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted May 3, 2011 Kalsnikov and vjf915, Sorry about your experience with Rodney. I know him personally and have the opposite opinion of him. Perhaps you caught him on a bad day or you were having a bad day. He is the more knowledgeable of NJ gun laws than most. Don't give up on him. If Rodney is the man who I think he is, around 60ish, retired cop, has a gut, and wears suspenders, pretty sure he carries a Glock....that's not who I am referring to. If that's Rodney, then he is also very helpful and nice. I have just dealt with Omar more often, and tend to like him more. The guy I am referring to is one of their younger guys, probably in his late 20's, maybe early 30's. He just always seems to hate helping.....even talking to people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites